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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 26 Jan 2013 (Saturday) 10:20
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A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives

 
elv
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Aug 17, 2013 00:13 |  #2251

Whortleberry wrote in post #16214336 (external link)
I'm so glad my little effort helped - having variable options of extension makes life immensely more convenient than just that rather over-length 5m which Godox have inflicted on us.

Phil I meant to say thanks for taking the time to post this before, having someone explain it all already in detailed images certainly helps. As soon as I have time I would like to try this as well. Having multiple combinations in one cord is really handy.
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ZoranC
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Aug 17, 2013 00:38 |  #2252

elv wrote in post #16215026 (external link)
I don't know if realize but you can buy the Canon/Nikon 4' coiled cords already.

Yes, but they are coiled. Coiled cords are a major pain in the ... IMHO, especially when they are thick/tight. They keep pulling on arm like spring would and pulling on clothing and ...

elv wrote in post #16215026 (external link)
I did mention the Canon/Nikon straight cords to Godox, but to be honest I don't think they picked up that part of the message. I personally don't know how big the demand is for those so I don't wan't to push the issue. Do more people want those?

I already mentioned this to Edward but I don't know did he mention it to Godox. I don't know the direct way of reaching appropriate people in Godox. I don't know how much of interest there is for straight Canon/Nikon cables but I would argue that it is same as for coiled ones and that if you offered straight instead of coiled very few people would be missing coiled ones. I would also like to argue there is a market for L4500 as external battery to CaNikon speedlights, it's just that L4500 is not being actively promoted in front of those of us that use external battery packs with speedlights. How big of the market that exactly is any manufacturer that makes external battery packs is able to answer.




  
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Whortleberry
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Aug 17, 2013 03:31 |  #2253

elv wrote in post #16215040 (external link)
Phil I meant to say thanks for taking the time to post this before, having someone explain it all already in detailed images certainly helps. As soon as I have time I would like to try this as well. Having multiple combinations in one cord is really handy.
.

You know what they say "A picture is worth 1000 words". It took longer to set up the pix than it did to make the mods. The multiple combinations really does make a world of difference - but then I have trouble with cables anyway (flash cables / lawnmower cables / hedge trimmer cables / you name it, I can trip over it) so anything which helps ...........

ZoranC wrote in post #16215067 (external link)
Yes, but they are coiled. Coiled cords are a major pain in the ... IMHO, especially when they are thick/tight. They keep pulling on arm like spring would and pulling on clothing and ...


I already mentioned this to Edward but I don't know did he mention it to Godox. I don't know the direct way of reaching appropriate people in Godox. I don't know how much of interest there is for straight Canon/Nikon cables but I would argue that it is same as for coiled ones and that if you offered straight instead of coiled very few people would be missing coiled ones. I would also like to argue there is a market for L4500 as external battery to CaNikon speedlights, it's just that L4500 is not being actively promoted in front of those of us that use external battery packs with speedlights. How big of the market that exactly is any manufacturer that makes external battery packs is able to answer.

The outer sheathing is normally a thermoplastic of some description. Thermo - as in heat. Obviously this depends on the nature of the plastic used but quite often these coiled cables can be relaxed by nothing more complex than dipping them in boiling water for a minute or so (obviously NOT the plugs!) and stretching them, then cooling under a running tap while they are stretched. A lot of sheathing becomes really quite soft and manageable at 95°C - whoopee, that means we can twiddle in our kitchens and not require anything more complex than a pan of boiling water. The coils go in the boiling water, the plugs and fingers DON'T - obvious though that may seem.

A lot of coiled cables are made by taking straight cable (hence the seemingly strange measurements where a cable never stretches back fully to it's original, straight length), winding it round a mandrel and heating that mandrel up to a point of plasticity to give the sheathing a memory. This is then cooled to set the coils. Most of the time, the cable is then reverse wound to tighten the coils (I've never successfully done this tightening, but that's how it works anyway).

Zoran: I probably use my PB960 / L4500 at least as often with Canon leads on it as with Godox ones. Great power packs and, as you say, well worth promoting in their own right even if you don't want / need the AD/CL flash itself. The previous pack, the PB820 with NiMH cells, was OK(ish) for this purpose (bit high priced in the UK for a NiMH pack with one outlet) but the L4500 / PB960 is really super - and up to 4 heads off 1 pack if you really want, courtesy of Edward's splitter cables (HERE) (external link).

Cable availability is a matter of economy of scale. If one of us wants XYZ cable with ABC plugs, it's not worth making as it'd be hugely expensive unit cost. If 10,000 want it, then we may have a chance of seeing it commercially. It's up to us all to voice a demand, then we may see something happen.


Phil ǁ Kershaw Soho Reflex: 4¼" Ross Xpres, 6½" Aldis, Super XX/ABC Pyro in 24 DDS, HP3/Meritol Metol in RFH, Johnson 'Scales' brand flash powder. Kodak Duo Six-20/Verichrome Pan. Other odd bits over the decades, simply to get the job done - not merely to polish and brag about cos I'm too mean to buy the polish!
FlickR (external link) ◄► "The Other Yongnuo User Guide v4.12" by Clive Bolton (external link) ◄► UK Railway Photographs 1906-79 (external link)

  
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Whortleberry
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Aug 17, 2013 04:32 |  #2254

Wiring DIY extensions: Just to be perfectly clear. The power cable from Godox / CheetahLight power pack to flash head contains three cores. The DIN plug supplied on cables has five 'live' pins - but these only feed into those 3 cores. So effectively, two of the pins are redundant in this specific application.

When you cut the Godox-fitted DIN plug off a cable, pins 6, 7 and the ring shield all show continuity on the red core only. Logic dictates, therefore, that pins 6, 7 and the ring shield are bridged inside the Godox-fitted DIN plug. Before I started making my mods, I tested every which way and found positively no advantage whatsoever in fiddling round continuing this 5 down to 3, 3 back up to 5, 5 down to 3 connection sequence. Extra work soldering, extra work making those little bridge pieces, no advantage at all that I could discover. I have only tested this on the Godox pack and the various leads supplied - it may well be that other makes do require those extra pins but I'm not prepared to cut up a US$89 cable just out of curiosity!


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Someone with, for example, a Quantum QT49 may like to check continuity on their pin configuration. For the Godox packs, though, I could find no reason other than filling the gaps to bother with those extra connections. As you can see, pin 6 isn't connected and neither is the ring shield tab - but it works even using Edward's 2-to-1 doubler (external link) into an AD/CL360, putting the maximum power through all the connections.

Phil ǁ Kershaw Soho Reflex: 4¼" Ross Xpres, 6½" Aldis, Super XX/ABC Pyro in 24 DDS, HP3/Meritol Metol in RFH, Johnson 'Scales' brand flash powder. Kodak Duo Six-20/Verichrome Pan. Other odd bits over the decades, simply to get the job done - not merely to polish and brag about cos I'm too mean to buy the polish!
FlickR (external link) ◄► "The Other Yongnuo User Guide v4.12" by Clive Bolton (external link) ◄► UK Railway Photographs 1906-79 (external link)

  
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mmmfotografie
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Aug 17, 2013 10:08 as a reply to  @ post 16215026 |  #2255

@Whortleberry, it is the female version of the DIN connector where the soldering eyes are able to touch each other so you have to use heat shrink to isolate the wires and contacts after soldering.

@ZoranC, put my power-pack on the stand or boom with Velcro with loops on them at one end. I don't like to carry the power-pack except when the Speedlite flash is on the camera and I need awesome recycling times. I always used internal batteries and my jaw literally dropped when I first used the PB960 as power source. What a speed!!!

The Canon cable only uses 2 leads and are connected to pin 3 and 6+7+shield.




  
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ZoranC
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Aug 17, 2013 12:28 |  #2256

Whortleberry wrote in post #16215293 (external link)
... quite often these coiled cables can be relaxed by nothing more complex than dipping them in boiling water for a minute or so (obviously NOT the plugs!) and stretching them, then cooling under a running tap while they are stretched ...

I prefer not having to do things that are making me spend less time on actually taking photos because time is already scarce as it is and at certain point all one ends up doing is spending all his available time on rigging things he needs and none on what he actually needs to achieve.

Whortleberry wrote in post #16215293 (external link)
Zoran: I probably use my PB960 / L4500 at least as often with Canon leads on it as with Godox ones. Great power packs and, as you say, well worth promoting in their own right even if you don't want / need the AD/CL flash itself.

Exactly :) And I think demand is already there or otherwise external battery packs for CaNikons wouldn't be manufactured and sold. And those packs already have relatively thin flexible cables so you can't sell something whose cable is much thicker / less flexible, nor you can reduce cross section of wire on Godox cable so by keeping same cross section while going straight you can kill two birds with same stone.




  
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ZoranC
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Aug 17, 2013 12:33 |  #2257

mmmfotografie wrote in post #16215809 (external link)
@ZoranC, put my power-pack on the stand or boom with Velcro with loops on them at one end. I don't like to carry the power-pack except when the Speedlite flash is on the camera and I need awesome recycling times. I always used internal batteries and my jaw literally dropped when I first used the PB960 as power source. What a speed!!!

Exactly my point :) That is why I use external battery packs with speedlights on stands, I get huge amount of pops while having practically instant recycle times. Having L4500 as a source would mean my supply of pops is practically unlimited, that I can go whole day long without even thinking about battery.




  
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Trailboy
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Aug 18, 2013 08:58 |  #2258

The Godox are now available in the UK and the US from Calumet Photo:

http://www.calumetphot​o.co.uk …ryDomainName=Ca​lumet-UK-2 (external link)




  
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ZoranC
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Aug 18, 2013 12:50 |  #2259

Trailboy wrote in post #16218103 (external link)
The Godox are now available in the UK and the US from Calumet Photo:

http://www.calumetphot​o.co.uk …ryDomainName=Ca​lumet-UK-2 (external link)

Hmmm... that's interesting, let me see:

Genesis GF400 (aka CL360) @ Calumet: $549.50
CL360 @ CheetahStand: $569.50
Genesis PowerPort Duo 1000 (aka L4500) @ Calumet: Regular price $449.99 - $100 instant savings = $349.99
L4500 @ CheetahStand: $215.00
Combo deals @ Calumet: none that I can see
Combo deals @ CheetahStand: Yes
CL-360 spare bulb @ Calumet: $122.10
CL-360 spare bulb @ CheetahStand: $74.95

So, while it is good to have more than one supplier and Calumet does have few things cheaper than CheetahStand (2-to-1 splitter is few bucks cheaper), I still don't see any incentive to consider them beside CheetahStand, at least when for us in US.




  
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Ulysses01
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Aug 18, 2013 12:55 |  #2260

B.I.C. - sorry if this is a redundant question. What you describe is exactly what I want to do in some situations. I've never needed to worry about adapters or cables with the PW FlexTT5 and MiniTT1 radios.

When you mention a hot shoe adapter in step #3 quoted below, do you have a recommended adapter and cable? (I'm unsure about the distinction between a miniphone sync terminal and a mono sync terminal —*the PW site almost makes them sound like different things even though I believe they are the same.) Hopefully I could also find a cable with right-angle connector.

Additionally, why not simply seat the CL-xxx into the FlexTT5 hot shoe, even if you need to connect them together with a sync cable? Would there be a conflict here?

BigIronCruiser wrote in post #16130460 (external link)
Though I've never wanted to do this, Nikon appears to be a little easier than Canon in terms of mixing speedlights with CL-xxx's. I posted something close to the following elsewhere in this thread, but to save time this is what works with a Nikon D4...

1. Place a PW MiniTT1 with a CLS-compatible speedlight (e.g. SB-910) in the camera's hotshoe
2. Set the SB-910 to Master Mode, and set its zone to anything, i.e. TTL, Manual, ---, etc
3. Place the remote CL-xxx in a hotshoe adapter, and connect the male end of the adapter cable to P2 on a FlexTT5
4. Select a Zone (A, B or C) for the remote FlexTT5
5. Set the selected Zone from Step 4 to Manual on the SB-910
6. Happy shooting (even up to max shutter speed as long as the CL-XXX is set to 1/1)
7. Focus assist on the SB-910 is active, though it's rarely needed when using a D4;)

An AC-3 zone controller or SU-4 can be used in place of the SB-910 if desired.

One of the downsides, of course, is that PW's are fairly pricey.




  
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Ulysses01
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Aug 18, 2013 12:58 |  #2261

Thanks, elv... good to know about what works with Olympus, too. :)

Quick question: Has the Cells II for the Nikon been released yet? Is it the same hardware, or was it just a matter of a firmware update?

elv wrote in post #16209877 (external link)
Yes the cells II is a transceiver so you can set it to transmitter or receiver.

I'm not sure if the hotshoe works, but its in a very awkward position anyway, anything mounted there is likely going to poke you in the head.

No the Cells II won't work in HSS with the Olympus. In fact I'm not sure that they would even fire at all, as they don't like to fire unless on the Canon camera hotshoe with all TTL contacts.

The CL-Tx is single firing pin so that should be ok on the Olympus, but no HSS.
.




  
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dmward
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Aug 18, 2013 23:12 |  #2262

ZoranC wrote in post #16218628 (external link)
Hmmm... that's interesting, let me see:

Genesis GF400 (aka CL360) @ Calumet: $549.50
CL360 @ CheetahStand: $569.50
Genesis PowerPort Duo 1000 (aka L4500) @ Calumet: Regular price $449.99 - $100 instant savings = $349.99
L4500 @ CheetahStand: $215.00
Combo deals @ Calumet: none that I can see
Combo deals @ CheetahStand: Yes
CL-360 spare bulb @ Calumet: $122.10
CL-360 spare bulb @ CheetahStand: $74.95

So, while it is good to have more than one supplier and Calumet does have few things cheaper than CheetahStand (2-to-1 splitter is few bucks cheaper), I still don't see any incentive to consider them beside CheetahStand, at least when for us in US.

I'm in Chicago, and I use Calumet regularly. I know Edward, and have helped him test and confirm that the Cells IIc works with Canon cameras including the 2012 versions. Both are reputable suppliers. For me the difference is simple Edward answers the phone and delivers great customer support because its his reason for business. (There's a quant french phrase for that but I don't know what it is) Calumet is a large, multi-national company with significant purchasing power.

I know who I'll buy from when it comes to hybrid strobe lighting equipment.

And, to pacify the cynics, yes Edward has given me some favored treatment. So has Calumet.


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Trailboy
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Aug 19, 2013 01:41 |  #2263

dmward wrote in post #16220104 (external link)
I'm in Chicago, and I use Calumet regularly. I know Edward, and have helped him test and confirm that the Cells IIc works with Canon cameras including the 2012 versions. Both are reputable suppliers. For me the difference is simple Edward answers the phone and delivers great customer support because its his reason for business. (There's a quant french phrase for that but I don't know what it is) Calumet is a large, multi-national company with significant purchasing power.

I know who I'll buy from when it comes to hybrid strobe lighting equipment.

And, to pacify the cynics, yes Edward has given me some favored treatment. So has Calumet.

Yep, but Edwards only exist in the USA.




  
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Trailboy
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Aug 19, 2013 03:10 |  #2264

Trailboy wrote in post #16220316 (external link)
Yep, but Edwards only exist in the USA.

Also, in the UK, Calumet run a 20% off student discount for all its own brand stuff.




  
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Whortleberry
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Aug 19, 2013 04:36 |  #2265

Trailboy wrote in post #16220316 (external link)
Yep, but Edwards only exist in the USA.

Go on - rub salt into the wound. :lol:
I am VERY jealous of your access to this quality of supplier - UK customs shenanigans make private imports ridiculously slow and expensive. vmad
Being cynical, I suppose you could say that we get the quality of supplier we deserve (I'll reserve judgement on Lencarta for the time being). Which doesn't say a great deal for the British consumer, although it says a great deal about them. :o

Trailboy wrote in post #16220392 (external link)
Also, in the UK, Calumet run a 20% off student discount for all its own brand stuff.

Regretably, certain of us are just ever so slightly past the official 'student' status. :cry: By a mere handful of decades in at least one case I can think of. :cry: :cry:

I'm slightly annoyed at the marketing ploy Calumet have adopted of implying that their units are of higher capacity than anyone else's. The Godox AD180/360 which also appear as the CheetahLight CL180/360, the Lencarta Atom 180/360, Foto Walser (Walimex) Pro Light Shooter 180 (can't see a 360 yet) and various other rebrands suddenly, as if by magic, become the Genesis GF200/400. Having taught advertising, I'm very well aware that these are only names but the implication is that the GF400 is somehow more powerful than an AD360 when the only actual difference is a bit of white paint on the case. Subliminal, yes. A common advertising ploy, certainly. Not quite ethical to my pedantic mind. Contrast this with Edward Tang's straightforward statement (about the CL180) of 153.6Ws - honest, straightforward, no attempt at subterfuge. MUCH more to my taste.

I have been told that Godox were taken to task about the "180" tag at a very early stage but held to their naming despite the exaggeration implied. Not that Watt seconds is anything other than an electrical expression with questionable relevance to photographers other than for comparison within a single maker's range.

Perhaps I'm just getting picky in my old age - or perhaps it's seeing past marketing 'twiddles' to reality. Mind you, if certain customers were also honest and didn't try to get Far East-sourced products serviced/repaired/repl​aced by domestic suppliers then this rebranding fiasco wouldn't be as necessary. Sometimes, though, it's just an excuse to hike the price by seemingly differentiating between otherwise identical products (not in Calumet's case on current pricing though, to be fair. There are other US suppliers who are extremely adept at this game, to the unwitting detriment of buyers.).


Phil ǁ Kershaw Soho Reflex: 4¼" Ross Xpres, 6½" Aldis, Super XX/ABC Pyro in 24 DDS, HP3/Meritol Metol in RFH, Johnson 'Scales' brand flash powder. Kodak Duo Six-20/Verichrome Pan. Other odd bits over the decades, simply to get the job done - not merely to polish and brag about cos I'm too mean to buy the polish!
FlickR (external link) ◄► "The Other Yongnuo User Guide v4.12" by Clive Bolton (external link) ◄► UK Railway Photographs 1906-79 (external link)

  
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