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Thread started 24 Aug 2013 (Saturday) 02:07
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Do any of you have a mixed system (ff and crop)?

 
JeffreyG
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Aug 24, 2013 08:11 |  #16

NeonStar wrote in post #16235321 (external link)
I couldn't imagine not having a crop because I like the extra reach and don't shoot wide much. But then I realized I could probably get a 5D someday in the distant future and use it along with a crop for the wide angle stuff.. just as an example, a 5D with 24-105 or maybe a wide angle lens, and a 7D with 100-400.

Do any of you have any systems like this and do you ever feel like you are off balance or lopsided in someway?

I have a 5D3 and a 1D4.

Once I got the 5D3 (which was an upgrade of an old 5D classic) I did consider selling off the 1D4 and just having the one FF camera. I wound up keeping the 1D4, but not because of the sensor format.

I kept the 1D4 because there are a few things it does better than the 5D3, and some of those things are very important to me. But otherwise, no, I don't feel an advantage in having two formats. I'd be just as happy if the 1D4 was FF.


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bugler
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Aug 24, 2013 08:45 |  #17

I have a 1Ds and a T4i. And a 1DMk2 on the way and I plan to use all three. Though admittedly, the T4i just doesn't feel right anymore since I've been holding 1 series cameras.


Bodies: 6D, EOS-M, & 1Ds(for sale)
Lenses: 17-40 f/4L, 24-105 f/4L IS, 80-200mm f/2.8L "Magic Drainpipe", 40mm f/2.8 stm Pancake, 50mm f/1.4, Ef-M 22mm f/2 STM

  
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The ­ Dark ­ Knight
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Aug 24, 2013 12:22 |  #18

I have a 6 and 60D. Only reason I keep the 60D is because my wife uses it sometimes and she wants her own DSLR. Will probably eventually sell it and get her an SL1.




  
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hania
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Aug 24, 2013 12:40 |  #19

Scott M wrote in post #16235376 (external link)
I have 5D3 and 7D. The full frame gets used for most shooting since I added it to my kit, with the 7D regulated to wildlife use with a 100-400L. When I carry only one body, it is always the 5D3.

Same here except I sold my 100-400 as it was an awful copy (had got it used).

Currently making do with 70-200 2.8 + 1.4x.

Use 16-35 mark11,24-105 and 28-300 on both.

If taking just 1 lens for a day out walking , will take 5d3 and 28-300.


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amfoto1
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Aug 24, 2013 12:48 |  #20

NeonStar wrote in post #16235321 (external link)
Do any of you have any systems like this and do you ever feel like you are off balance or lopsided in someway?

Heck yes and heck no!

Yes, I have a system with different formats. No it doesn't make me feel "off balance or lopsided" in any way.

In fact, just the opposite. The two formats complement each other very nicely! I deliberately chose APS-C 1.6X crop with FF, rather than 1.3X APS-H and FF, because I wanted the greater differential between the two formats.

For most of my shooting I use a pair of 7D. But I also have a 5DII. These particular models complement each other very nicely.

At one time I used several 50D alongside 5DII and there were a few minor differences that never really were a problem, though initially I thot they might be.... For example the image erase button of one is in the same location as the image playback button on the other. The row of buttons on the top were a little different, too. The 50D also used a different battery than 5DII.

A 5D classic is most closely complemented by a 20/30D, though 40/50D are pretty close too. A 60D (and, it appears, 70D) would be nicely complemented by a 6D. As mentioned already, 5DII and 7D seem a pretty natural fit. 5DIII and 7D would be fine together, too. Eventually I imagine 7D Mark II and 5DIII will complement each other very nicely, as well.

It's much like the old days of film, when many of us had different formats for different purposes. At one point I used 35mm, medium format (70mm wide film mostly known as "120/220") and large format (4x5 inch and 5x7 inch sheet film), all at the same time and serving different purposes. With today's DSLRs it's in many ways much easier. Now, for the large part, I can share lenses between 7D and 5DII (only have a few "crop only" lenses). Back in the days of film you had to have lenses and other accessories for each system. There was very little interchangeability. My DSLRs also share memory cards, batteries, chargers, and of course other accessories such as filters, flashes, tripods, etc.

The 7D and 5DII handle so similarly, control layouts are very similar, as are menus and many functions, that it's no problem switching back and forth between them. In fact it's far easier than changing formats back in the days of film, since the cameras and lenses then often had wildly different specifications and control methodologies.

I tend to use the 7D for rapid action/sports shooting, where the 5DII isn't so great. I'll also generally use the croppers for other longer lens work, wildlife and such. The crop cameras allow me to be much more mobile... For example I can move a lot faster with a handheld 300/4 IS on a 7D, than I can with a 500/4 IS on my 5DII plus a tripod (or at least a monopod) to put them on. I ain't gettin' any younger, either... so any weight savings is much appreciated, too!

But for anything I want or need to print really large (upwards of, say, 16x24" or maybe 20x30")... or if shooting in low light... or shooting something where the larger viewfinder of the FF might give a better feel for depth of field... or wanting to use smaller apertures for greater depth of field with less risk from diffraction (at any particular print/image size)... I'll use the full frame camera.

I find I shoot about a 10 to 1 ratio.... About 10X as many images with crop, as compared to FF. Partially that's because I sometimes use the high frame rate of the crop cameras, but rarely take the FF out of single frame mode (which isn't all that fast anyway).

If I were only shooting full frame, I would have felt a lot of pressure to upgrade to the 5DIII for it's much improved AF system (among other things). But as the 5DII still meets the needs I throw at it well and I am able to use 7D for other things where a 5DII doesn't excel, I have not bothered to upgrade yet. Someday I will, but I'm in no rush and even when I do I certainly will continue using both formats.

If I could only have one camera, it would still be a cropper... That's because of what I shoot. It's more action/sports, wildlife, and other long lens work. I do a lot less scenic, cityscape, landscape, seascape, wide lens work (though some ultrawide lenses for croppers are darned good, such as the Canon 10-22 and Tokina 12-24). I also don't do a lot of low light shooting (though crop cameras have progressed a lot with higher ISO capabilities and a fast lens is a fast lens, no matter what format you put it on). And portraiture and macro shooting, both of which I do a moderate amount of, really can be done with either format (though I have a bit of a preference to use FF). Of course, for other folks it might be the exact opposite. For their usage, FF might make more sense.

FF is also generally more expensive to shoot with. Mostly it's because a lens kit for crop can be smaller, lighter and potentially less expensive. FF also generally produces bigger image files... and that might call for bigger memory cards and hard drives, plus more powerful computers and softwares to work with the files (granted, FF doesn't always mean bigger files).

And FF has a bit less selection of lenses. Crop cameras can use both FF compatible and crop-only lenses. FF can only use FF compatible.... though there still are plenty to choose among in an extensive, well-established system such as Canon's (it's sort of ironic... this is thanks in part to Canon being a system with deep roots in film).

EDIT:

You can crop a 5D3 + 100-400 image to a 7D + 400mm equivalent and the ff image is still better.

There is simply no place for crop camera once you own a capable ff body such as a 5D3.

Sorry, but this is quite incorrect. The 7D's sensor has much higher density of pixel sites than 5DIII. It "puts more pixels on target". In fact, 7D has over 54,000 sites per square millimeter, while 5DIII has roughly half that or about 25,600 per square mm. If you crop a 5D3 image to the same dimensions as a 7D image, you will end up with an image that's less than 8.5MP, vs 18MP with the 7D. That's a lot of data loss. Now, the larger sites of 5DIII produce greater sharpness and accuity, partially because they don't require as strong an AA filter as the more crowded sensor of 7D, probably also because they tend to have less "cross talk" thanks to lower operating temps and more physical separation between them, so this isn't exact. You don't get a full 1.6X increase. But in reality with the 7D you get something between 1.2X and 1.4X "free teleconverter" effect compared to the FF camera. In other words, you get greater magnification or "reach", with no loss of light as would occur if using an actual teleconverter of the same strength on a 5DIII. This assumes too, that the teleconverter's optics would be absolutely perfect... That the extra glass between lens and camera would cause absolutely no loss of resolving power (though some are darned good, unfortunately there is no such thing as a "perfect" TC).

It really comes down to shooting needs... whether a particular format might be better for one's purposes than the other. Or if one might have use for both.


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5DII, 7DII(x2), 7D(x2) & other cameras. 10-22mm, Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5 Macro, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS (x2), 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, studio strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link) - ZENFOLIO (external link)

  
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Scott ­ M
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Aug 24, 2013 17:07 |  #21

amfoto1 wrote in post #16236138 (external link)
Sorry, but this is quite incorrect. The 7D's sensor has much higher density of pixel sites than 5DIII. It "puts more pixels on target". In fact, 7D has over 54,000 sites per square millimeter, while 5DIII has roughly half that or about 25,600 per square mm. If you crop a 5D3 image to the same dimensions as a 7D image, you will end up with an image that's less than 8.5MP, vs 18MP with the 7D. That's a lot of data loss. Now, the larger sites of 5DIII produce greater sharpness and accuity, partially because they don't require as strong an AA filter as the more crowded sensor of 7D, probably also because they tend to have less "cross talk" thanks to lower operating temps and more physical separation between them, so this isn't exact. You don't get a full 1.6X increase. But in reality with the 7D you get something between 1.2X and 1.4X "free teleconverter" effect compared to the FF camera. In other words, you get greater magnification or "reach", with no loss of light as would occur if using an actual teleconverter of the same strength on a 5DIII. This assumes too, that the teleconverter's optics would be absolutely perfect... That the extra glass between lens and camera would cause absolutely no loss of resolving power (though some are darned good, unfortunately there is no such thing as a "perfect" TC).

Exactly. I will also add that those extra pixels on target allow you to further crop the 7D shot when even your longest lens is not enough to frame wildlife as tight as you would like.

While my 7D does not get used often, I still find it useful enough for situations where we travel to a destination where I will be shooting both landscapes and wildlife, such as Yellowstone or Glacier National Parks. I can hike or drive around the park with a 24-105L (or 17-40L) mounted on the 5D3 and the 100-400L mounted on the 7D. I am now ready for almost any type of shot without changing lenses.

In past trips with only one camera (the 7D), I would leave the 100-400L mounted when hiking/traveling, and switch to my landscape lens (17-55 or 10-22) whenever I needed it, then change lenses back to the 100-400L. That is because a mountain, waterfall or lake will wait for you to change lenses, but a grizzly bear, wolf or other animal will not. So, I was constantly swapping lenses. Now, I do not need to.

Having the 7D crop along with the 5D3 on this summer's trip to Glacier helped me to capture this grizzly shot. While hiking a trail, I walked to within 10 yards of it before we saw each other. I was able to calmly back away to a safer distance and then take the shot with the camera ready. If I only had one camera and the wrong lens mounted, I never would have got this shot. BTW, the shot was cropped a little in LR for better framing -- I would have lost even more resolution had it been taken with the 5D3 and cropped to the same framing.

It may not be the best grizzly photo I have ever taken, but I was able to capture a special moment that my wife and I will never forget because I had two cameras and was ready for any type of shot.

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Aug 24, 2013 17:27 |  #22

I have two FF and one crop, and I've only used the crop camera (40D) once since getting my first FF.


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Aug 24, 2013 17:34 |  #23

EOS-M + 22 on one hand, 6D + 135mm on the other. At the zoo last week with the M+22 and 6D + 70-300VC. About as good as it gets for the zoo.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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Sgt, ­ Mike
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Aug 24, 2013 17:36 |  #24

Nukehed wrote in post #16235614 (external link)
I have a 7D and a 5DII I bought from a friend. I never owned a FF before so I've been using it a lot just snapping pics and playing with settings. I am bringing both to a rugby game today and I plan on setting up the 5DII and firing it remotely while using the 7D on a mono.

I don't pay much mind to al that crop/FF/extra reach/shoot wide/better bokeh/DOF stuff. I use what I have and try to make the best photos and learn from each time I go out.

I've got a 7D & a 5D III & feel I have the best of both worlds. Pair a long lens with the 7D for the extra reach or use a wider lens with full frame 5D III. At the moment, the only area I feel some need is on the wide end, that I'm hoping to address soon.


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Aug 24, 2013 17:47 |  #25

Ive got my 5Dii and my 40D. My 40 still has uses, shes a much faster beast than the 5Dii.


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Aug 24, 2013 17:56 as a reply to  @ JeffreyG's post |  #26

7D for daylight sports-6D for lowlight stuff.


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Aug 24, 2013 18:06 |  #27

kin2son wrote in post #16235431 (external link)
There is simply no place for crop camera once you own a capable ff body such as a 5D3.

That is an extremely subjective statement.


I like having both formats in my bag. They each have advantages. It may not be the right move for everyone but it works for me.


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Aug 24, 2013 18:13 |  #28

kin2son wrote in post #16235431 (external link)
Wrong. You can crop a 5D3 + 100-400 image to a 7D + 400mm equivalent and the ff image is still better.

There is simply no place for crop camera once you own a capable ff body such as a 5D3.

Once they come out with a FF that has the pixel density of the same generation crop camera, then you might have a point. Today, that would be about 46MP, I think, for an FF to match the pixel density of the 7D. If they made one of those, I'd sell my current bodies and do what you suggest. :D It would be a great large print landscape camera and I could choose the crop factor at will to match my lens's optical reach and target distance, all in one camera.

As it is I have the 7D for focal length limited wildlife shooting and a 5D2 for landscape.


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Aug 24, 2013 18:23 |  #29

T3i and 6D here. I use them both a lot. When/if I upgrade the T3i it will be for another crop.


Gripped 6D, gripped 6D2, gripped 70D, 80D, 24-105 F4L, 50mm 1.8 STM, 55-250mm, 18-135mm, 60mm EF-S macro, 70-200 F4L IS, 400mm F5.6L, 18-55mm IS STM, Canon 85mm 1.8, Sigma 150-600mm C., Sigma 100-400mm C, Canon 70-300 IS USM, Samyang 8mm 3.5 fisheye, Sunpak DF3600U Flash (2)

  
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GregoryF
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Aug 24, 2013 18:28 |  #30

I like having crop and full frame. It really all depends on what I am shooting.


6D, 5D, 7D, Eos R and too many lenses, flashes and aux. gear to list!:cool:
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Do any of you have a mixed system (ff and crop)?
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