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Thread started 29 Aug 2013 (Thursday) 02:54
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DxO assess the Canon 70D's sensor performance

 
lsquare
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Aug 29, 2013 09:12 |  #16

SpartanWarrior wrote in post #16249611 (external link)
Do people actually wait for DxO Mark to buy a camera??? actually in real world use they are very close except DR, but then again who cares use your GND filters.

Not me, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss and compare sensor performances. Actually, I do care because you can't use GND in every single conceivable situation.




  
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lsquare
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Aug 29, 2013 09:15 |  #17

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16249817 (external link)
That is exactly my conclusion in a different thread where I pulled DPReview's raw files from the previous 18mpx crop and compared to the 70D raw. The images are sharper, but have more luminescent noise. That is actually to be expected anyways though, because you lose detail as you pull back lum. noise.

However it is still a good thing, because this is a brand-new sensor. So Canon was able to make a new sensor that has 40M sites on it, go a bit larger overall in resolution, and didn't hurt anything in the process.

It depends on what your expectations are. I suppose one can argue that at least it doesn't perform worse than the 60D (just imagine the kind of conversations that we'll be having if the 70D performs worse than its predecessor).




  
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lsquare
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Aug 29, 2013 09:18 |  #18

jrbdmb wrote in post #16249819 (external link)
I don't understand Dxo's lens scores whatsoever ... but their camera sensor scores seem to make sense.

Looking at early RAWs seems to agree with Dxo's findings - the 70D is a *bit* better than the 60D and 7D, but no dramatic improvements. Some have also seen less banding in low ISO noise with the 70D, but unless you are routinely pulling up shadows several stops this isn't a very meaningful improvement.

(What TeamSpeak said. :) )

Would you be able to figure out which camera is better by examining the files in a blind test? From what I gather, the improvement is so incremental, it's not likely someone will notice it unless they zoom in.




  
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Aug 29, 2013 09:27 |  #19

JoYork wrote in post #16249662 (external link)
so how are DXO calculating the scores?

I have long suspected that they're based on last week's losing lottery numbers.


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Aug 29, 2013 09:29 |  #20

lsquare wrote in post #16250060 (external link)
Would you be able to figure out which camera is better by examining the files in a blind test? From what I gather, the improvement is so incremental, it's not likely someone will notice it unless they zoom in.

Sure, any improvements that people see in the 70D have to be done zoomed in to 100%, and even then there may be some confirmation bias at work (this is the newest camera, and I just bought one, so it has to be a bit better than the 60D / 7D).

Comparing specific scores between the 60D / 7D / 70D:
Color depth (bits): 22.2 22.0 22.5
Dynamic range (EV): 11.5 11.7 11.6
Low Light (ISO): 813 854 926.

I'm glad that the color depth and low light ISO improved a bit, but agree that in real world use it will be difficult to tell any of these cameras apart.


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Aug 29, 2013 09:31 |  #21

lsquare wrote in post #16249496 (external link)
Considering how big Canon is, I can't believe the gap between Canon's sensors and its competitors are growing. How is this possible?

Well, I'm really hoping the reason is that Canon has had two teams working on Sensor R&D. One working on getting PD-AF working in video (resulting in the 70D's sensor) and one working on a high-DR, low-noise sensor for stills (yet to be released).

Then the two teams can get together to figure out how to meld the two.


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Aug 29, 2013 09:43 |  #22

jrbdmb wrote in post #16250091 (external link)
Sure, any improvements that people see in the 70D have to be done zoomed in to 100%, and even then there may be some confirmation bias at work (this is the newest camera, and I just bought one, so it has to be a bit better than the 60D / 7D).

Comparing specific scores between the 60D / 7D / 70D:
Color depth (bits): 22.2 22.0 22.5
Dynamic range (EV): 11.5 11.7 11.6
Low Light (ISO): 813 854 926.

I'm glad that the color depth and low light ISO improved a bit, but agree that in real world use it will be difficult to tell any of these cameras apart.

The improvement is unbelievably small! For all intents and purposes, once you take out the increase in pixel count, the 70D's sensor is practically the same as the 60D.




  
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Aug 29, 2013 09:45 |  #23

hollis_f wrote in post #16250097 (external link)
Well, I'm really hoping the reason is that Canon has had two teams working on Sensor R&D. One working on getting PD-AF working in video (resulting in the 70D's sensor) and one working on a high-DR, low-noise sensor for stills (yet to be released).

Then the two teams can get together to figure out how to meld the two.

It shouldn't take that long to develop something like that. Like I said earlier, by the time the 80D comes out (assuming Canon sticks to the usual release schedule), there would have been at least half a decade where they made no practical improvements in their sensors. Even with the 80D, Canon may end up making no improvements at all. If so, then that would be even more disappointing.




  
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Aug 29, 2013 10:35 |  #24

lsquare wrote in post #16250140 (external link)
It shouldn't take that long to develop something like that. Like I said earlier, by the time the 80D comes out (assuming Canon sticks to the usual release schedule), there would have been at least half a decade where they made no practical improvements in their sensors. Even with the 80D, Canon may end up making no improvements at all. If so, then that would be even more disappointing.

That isn't really fair, the sensor is actually quite amazing considering what they have done with it to revolutionize the AF framework without harming the existing ISO, DR, and shadow processing. It is a brand spanking new sensor design, and also with their latest patent filing here in August, there could be some interesting things in the works for DR and shadow processing.


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Aug 29, 2013 10:43 |  #25
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TeamSpeed wrote in post #16250270 (external link)
That isn't really fair, the sensor is actually quite amazing considering what they have done with it to revolutionize the AF framework without harming the existing ISO, DR, and shadow processing. It is a brand spanking new sensor design, and also with their latest patent filing here in August, there could be some interesting things in the works for DR and shadow processing.

I'll believe it once I see it. So far, nothing new on the sensor front as far as low ISO image quality...where I live most of my time.




  
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Aug 29, 2013 10:45 |  #26

thats where I am also 95% of the time
low light fast action
the constant battle


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Aug 29, 2013 10:53 |  #27

JoYork wrote in post #16249921 (external link)
According to DXO, the Sony RX1 has better ISO performance than the Canon 6d, and some THREE TIMES better performance than the 7d!

http://www.dxomark.com …3)/619%7C0/(bra​nd3)/Canon (external link)

It's probably because Canon's DR is poor to begin with and it quickly falls below the DxO targets of 30dB SNR, 9 EV of DR, and color depth of 18bit. It would be interesting to see how the tests change if we were set the DR to say 7ev.At low ISO the Exmore does really great but as the ISO increases, it's DR decreases and matches the Canon sensors pretty much.


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Aug 29, 2013 10:53 |  #28

lsquare wrote in post #16250140 (external link)
It shouldn't take that long to develop something like that. Like I said earlier, by the time the 80D comes out (assuming Canon sticks to the usual release schedule), there would have been at least half a decade where they made no practical improvements in their sensors. Even with the 80D, Canon may end up making no improvements at all. If so, then that would be even more disappointing.

Hogloff wrote in post #16250284 (external link)
I'll believe it once I see it. So far, nothing new on the sensor front as far as low ISO image quality...where I live most of my time.

So if you find the Canon sensor to so inferior why haven't you gone Nikon?


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Aug 29, 2013 10:57 |  #29

jrbdmb wrote in post #16250091 (external link)
...
I'm glad that the color depth and low light ISO improved a bit, but agree that in real world use it will be difficult to tell any of these cameras apart.

The one area where Canon seems to have improved with bot the 6D and now the 70D is in pattern noise. Though the images are pretty much the same say between the 5DII and the 6D or the 60D and the 70D, in the newer cameras pattern noise seems to be much less prevalent.


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Aug 29, 2013 11:00 |  #30
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2n10 wrote in post #16250321 (external link)
So if you find the Canon sensor to so inferior why haven't you gone Nikon?

Not that easy if you have a bunch of Canon glass. I think you already know this but just want to be a jerk...right.




  
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DxO assess the Canon 70D's sensor performance
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