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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 26 Jan 2013 (Saturday) 10:20
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A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives

 
dmward
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Aug 28, 2013 09:07 |  #2341

Damian,
I really like the umbrella frame modifiers with the Cheetah LIghts. They are light, compact when folded and easy to setup. I used a 30" octa for the testing. Plenty of light with the light about 6 feet from the subject. No diffusion panel although that only absorbs about 1/2 stop. If you have both diffusion panels in the 24" snap frame box they may be absorbing a stop or more of light. Also, remember that 1/1 in H mode is one stop less output that 1/1 in normal mode. So, you can get back 2 stops.

Maybe the best thing to do is start with the 5" reflector, see what you get and then see what modifiers you can use that have minimal impact. The 19" foldable octa is a very nice modifier as well.

As for power, try the AD/CL-360 at full power at the higher shutter speed. As I discuss in the article on my site, the longer flash duration at full power permits higher shutter speeds. I also confirmed that the AD/CL-180 also has a sufficiently long flash duration so the same thing works.


David | Sharing my Insights, Knowledge & Experience (external link) | dmwfotos website (external link)

  
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DamianOz
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Aug 28, 2013 09:55 |  #2342

Thank for the suggestions, I wasn't using the inner defuser in the QBox24, unfortunately its broken. I was using both diffusers on the QBox30 though. As expected the 30 exposed less.

If I was to mount 2 360s in the one modifier, do I get 1 stop more light as opposed to one flash in the same modifier?

I was thinking of getting a beauty dish, I prefer the catch light being round more so than square, but an octa or umbrella would provide similar.

Is an umbrella more susceptible to wind issues than other modifiers?


Bodies - Canon EOS 5DIII | EOS 6D
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dmward
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Aug 28, 2013 22:38 |  #2343

DamianOz wrote in post #16247092 (external link)
Thank for the suggestions, I wasn't using the inner defuser in the QBox24, unfortunately its broken. I was using both diffusers on the QBox30 though. As expected the 30 exposed less.

If I was to mount 2 360s in the one modifier, do I get 1 stop more light as opposed to one flash in the same modifier?

I was thinking of getting a beauty dish, I prefer the catch light being round more so than square, but an octa or umbrella would provide similar.

Is an umbrella more susceptible to wind issues than other modifiers?

Yes, one stop more with the second light.

I think an octa is a better choice. Or the 19" foldable beauty dish.

Umbrellas are like a sail when the wind comes up.


David | Sharing my Insights, Knowledge & Experience (external link) | dmwfotos website (external link)

  
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Meddin ­ Studios
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Aug 29, 2013 10:33 |  #2344

I'm not sure if anyone is in the same boat as me, but owning a Sekonic 478DR, I'm trying to figure out the best method for manual control while balancing TTL speedlights with Cheetahs AND HSS.
Here's where I'm at:

First off - What is point of using Cells II if you have PW or Odin? Aren't you using the PW/Odin Tx to trigger the CL with HSS sync as long as one of their Rx are connected to the 180/360? It seems the Cells II is redundant if your triggers support HSS already.

-- Phottix Odin Setup --
CONS - I lose Control TL options on the Sekonic. I have to carry a spare Tx to make Speedlight adjustments as I adjust lights AND I have to use the separate CL-Tx for the 180/360s AND I have to connect an Odin Rx to the sync port on the Sekonic to get readings if I want to quickly meter without having to wait for "test button, wait, fire, meter..." vs just "radio control TL mode" on the sekonic that fires the PW.

PROS - Great TTL/Speedlight control system. Cheaper than PW by few hundred bucks.

-- PW TT1/TT5/AC3 --
CONS - Cost. Weird radio interference with 580exII. All my speedlights are 580exII's. I've never used PW with them. Are the issues still that bad? Complicated software adjustments for HSS fine tuning.

PROS - Control TL support with Sekonic. Adjust levels of ALL speedlights straight from the meter (except 180/360's obviously).

-- 622C's --
PROS - Dirt Cheap. AF assist light. I mention dirt cheap?
CONS - No remote manual control besides camera menus. Less output with HSS vs PW/Odin. No Control TL.

I prefer the Odin over the AC3/PW setup because it has so much more control at your fingertips. The AC3 is simply zone intensities, no zoom head adjustment, no mixed grouping with TTL and manual and so forth. HOWEVER, Control TL straight from the Sekonic is super slick and literally cuts down on the amount of devices I carry from 3 to 1 (Odin Tx, Trigger, CL-Tx, and Meter vs Meter with CL-Tx)

I like to adjust lights and assist while the shooter concentrates on shooting, so the ability to meter and make remote power adjustments is key. Any insight is appreciated.




  
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tetrode
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Aug 29, 2013 10:40 |  #2345

CheetahStand wrote in post #16112355 (external link)
This is next, but not the current model you show here. Reason?? we still work with the Kelvin (color temp) on the material, The one you show here is way too Cold......Cause subject Cyan and Blue. We already test this 3 weeks ago and working on the new material......

Everything we carry have to pass Cheetah standard before we sell to our customer."Cheetah Mushroom" will come in only when we approve the correct diffusion material. Stay tune...

The AD-S17 (aka "Cheetah Mushroom") hasn't been mentioned here for about six weeks but, having experimented with a DIY version over the past several days, I think the Mushroom might prove to be a useful accessory in some (many?) situations.

My version was made by cutting off the top half of a 6" plastic lighting globe and gluing it onto a spare Elinchrom speed ring insert:

IMAGE: http://f.cl.ly/items/241P43230F0D1X153w3u/Plastic_Hemisphere_with_Elinchrom_Ring.jpg

Mounted on a modified Speed Pro bracket:

IMAGE: http://f.cl.ly/items/2k2Z1U2n1s0z3M2Q2h2m/CL-180_with_Plastic_Hemisphere.jpg

With the dome positioned about 2-feet from the room ceiling, I found soft, easy to work with light was available anywhere in the approximately 15' x 20' room where initial testing took place. The plastic dome consumes roughly 1-1/2 stops of light (compared to a nude flash tube).

The difference between images shot without and with the plastic dome is readily apparent:

IMAGE: http://f.cl.ly/items/2n3J1g381U1X2L3P2D2J/Turkish_Figure_Barebulb_vs_Dome.jpg

Domed image on the right, of course.

This is my disheveled but patient assistant, Wilbur:

IMAGE: http://f.cl.ly/items/3Q1a3i1G2g0w1l0B3f27/Wilbur_with_Plastic_Hemisphere.jpg

The dome kept the background from going dark while still not blowing out the white hair (it's hair, not fur) on Wilbur's head.

So, based on my limited testing, I'm looking forward to trying the color-corrected real thing as soon as it's available:

IMAGE: http://f.cl.ly/items/2L2N213a180h1K2L2D0B/Mushroom.jpg



  
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mmmfotografie
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Aug 29, 2013 12:58 |  #2346

Meddin Studios wrote in post #16250262 (external link)
-- PW TT1/TT5/AC3 --
CONS - Cost. Weird radio interference with 580exII. All my speedlights are 580exII's. I've never used PW with them. Are the issues still that bad? Complicated software adjustments for HSS fine tuning.

PROS - Control TL support with Sekonic. Adjust levels of ALL speedlights straight from the meter (except 180/360's obviously).

Not weird problem, it is a known problem. Certain Canon flashes are emitting a noise that is blocking the frequency on which the PocketWizards communicate.

PocketWizard has made two products available that shield the receivers from that static noise and so improving the communication quality.

http://wiki.pocketwiza​rd.com …le=Long_Range_P​erformance (external link)




  
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JaycYu
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Aug 29, 2013 17:36 |  #2347

dmward wrote in post #16246888 (external link)
The Cells IIc Beta was a pre-release sample provided to Cheetah by Godox to confirm that the updated firmware worked with 2012 cameras. Specifically the 5DIII. It does not change, to my knowledge any HSS capabilities. The H mode rapid cycling is a feature in the lights not the trigger.

With a 5DII, the earlier Cells-II will work fine for H mode FP-sync triggering.

The 10 shots mentioned in the manual is a recommended limit to keep the unit from overheating. If it gets too hot then it has to cool down.

Thanks for the news


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butterfly2937
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Aug 29, 2013 18:04 |  #2348

Meddin Studios wrote in post #16250262 (external link)
I have to connect an Odin Rx to the sync port on the Sekonic to get readings.

Can you explain how this works? I did not know this was an option. I have 580 EX II as well and the problem with PW has not been improved at all. I use my Odins and I am very happy with them. I also was wondering the best way to incorporate a CL 360. Does the CL Tx connect to the camera sync port if you have the Odin Tx in the camera hot shoe or are you connecting the Odin Rx to the sync port on a CL 360 and using the CL Tx only to control CL power?


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FJ ­ LOVE
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Aug 29, 2013 18:08 |  #2349

tetrode wrote in post #16250279 (external link)
This is my disheveled but patient assistant, Wilbur:

QUOTED IMAGE

cute dog ! :D


DILLIGAF about your bicycle or your gear

  
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Whortleberry
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Aug 29, 2013 18:17 |  #2350

tetrode wrote in post #16250279 (external link)
The AD-S17 (aka "Cheetah Mushroom") hasn't been mentioned here for about six weeks but, having experimented with a DIY version over the past several days, I think the Mushroom might prove to be a useful accessory in some (many?) situations.

It may possibly save somebody a load of hassle to reiterate that while it IS possible to get the Godox AD-S17 from quite a selection of HK / Kowloon / Shenzhen-based vendors (just one random example HERE (external link)), this is the original uncorrected version as mentioned in Edward's & Tetrodes's original posts. Better surely to wait for the properly researched and balanced version than the Mk 1TU version unless you actually prefer cyanosed patients/clients/subje​cts/models/dogs/et al. (TU = Totally Useless :rolleyes:. I would guess that this designation probably doesn't actually appear on the current packaging).

Interesting differentiation between CheetahStand's "Get it Right" approach and the current eBay vendors' attitudes of "Get it Sold".
Caveat Emptor.


Phil ǁ Kershaw Soho Reflex: 4¼" Ross Xpres, 6½" Aldis, Super XX/ABC Pyro in 24 DDS, HP3/Meritol Metol in RFH, Johnson 'Scales' brand flash powder. Kodak Duo Six-20/Verichrome Pan. Other odd bits over the decades, simply to get the job done - not merely to polish and brag about cos I'm too mean to buy the polish!
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DamianOz
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Aug 29, 2013 18:46 |  #2351

dmward wrote in post #16249143 (external link)
Yes, one stop more with the second light.

I think an octa is a better choice. Or the 19" foldable beauty dish.

Umbrellas are like a sail when the wind comes up.

I ordered a Kacey 22" beauty dish with Bowens mount, we'll see hoe that goes.


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Zooms - EF 16-35 f/2.8L II | EF 24-70 f/2.8L II | EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II | Σ 24-105mm F/4 DG OS Art | Σ 120-300mm F/2.8 DG OS Sport

  
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elv
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Aug 29, 2013 21:35 |  #2352

butterfly2937 wrote in post #16251503 (external link)
Can you explain how this works? I did not know this was an option. I have 580 EX II as well and the problem with PW has not been improved at all. I use my Odins and I am very happy with them. I also was wondering the best way to incorporate a CL 360. Does the CL Tx connect to the camera sync port if you have the Odin Tx in the camera hot shoe or are you connecting the Odin Rx to the sync port on a CL 360 and using the CL Tx only to control CL power?

Yes the CL-TX will connect to the camera sync port if you put a hotshoe on it (external link).

But the best way with using the Odins would be to connect a Phottix receiver to the CL-360. That can be as little as the $50 Strato II receiver (though you can use an Odin receiver if you want).

That way you have full HSS with ODS timing adjustment. And even outside HSS you get more light at X-sync because they are faster sync speed (or less delay) than the CL-TX.

So you would just hold the CL-TX in hand to make power adjustments (or possibly strap it to the side of the Odin TCU).

Some more trigger detail here if any of this may help-
http://flashhavoc.com …0-radio-triggers-and-hss/ (external link)
.


FLASHHAVOC.COM (external link)

  
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Aug 29, 2013 22:17 |  #2353

I agree with FJLove.


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Meddin ­ Studios
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Aug 30, 2013 15:14 |  #2354

Strato II's are HSS compatible? It's a shame the Odin Tx doesn't have a sync out port besides the hotshoe. If I could go with a cheaper basic trigger for the 360's that still supports HSS with the Odin system that would be great

Can you use two Odin Tx at same time (one on camera and one in hand for remote power adjustments).

My idea is:
For no on-camera flash -
Odin Tx on camera. Second Odin Tx in hand along with CL-Tx with Odin on hotshoe attached to Sekonic via hotshoe to PC sync adapter cable. Odin Rx's on 580's. Strato II's on 360's.
This in theory allows the meter to fire from the Odin Tx and make manual power adjustments on speed lights AND cheetahs for few hundred less than PW's.

On-cam flash would just require a handle bracket with Odin mounted on pass through hotshoe cable.

Eh? Make sense?




  
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amirg
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Aug 30, 2013 15:19 |  #2355

Meddin Studios wrote in post #16254120 (external link)
Strato II's are HSS compatible?

No they are not.


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A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives
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