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Thread started 29 Aug 2013 (Thursday) 06:14
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What % of FF buyers just want "the best"

 
Kolor-Pikker
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Aug 30, 2013 03:59 |  #91

NeonStar wrote in post #16252597 (external link)
How's Moscow?

Well, the weather is great, my part of the city is being renovated... everything's bloody expensive though. Oddly enough, camera gear is cheaper here than in the US if you shop around.


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Dragos ­ Jianu
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Aug 30, 2013 04:36 |  #92

I would say a very small percentage. Probably less than 5%, because:

1) Full Frame has a very small market share to begin with.
2) People rich enough to shell 5000$+ on an impulse buy make up an even smaller percentage of the population.
3) Among those, only a tiny minority would be willing to lug around many pounds of camera gear.

I am of course talking about amateurs with only a passing interest in photography. There are a lot of very good, very passionate photographers/hobbyist​s that are also rich enough to afford great gear.




  
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Higgs ­ Boson
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Aug 30, 2013 06:12 |  #93

Dragos Jianu wrote in post #16252661 (external link)
I would say a very small percentage. Probably less than 5%, because:

1) Full Frame has a very small market share to begin with.
2) People rich enough to shell 5000$+ on an impulse buy make up an even smaller percentage of the population.
3) Among those, only a tiny minority would be willing to lug around many pounds of camera gear.

I am of course talking about amateurs with only a passing interest in photography. There are a lot of very good, very passionate photographers/hobbyist​s that are also rich enough to afford great gear.

You are answering the question, "How many photographers buy a full frame camera?" which is not the topic.

1) FF may be a small market but the topic questions the motivation of people already part of that segment so even if it is a small segment, we don't have to get in it, we are already there.

2) 5000? Impulse? You can get a 5D for what? 500 dollars?

3) The Sony RX1 weighs pounds?


Let's say you have no other interests besides photography and you have 10,000 dollars for a camera. You already have a 600mm lens and a 14mm lens.
You have three choices: a point and shoot, a 7D, and a 5Diii. You can keep the balance of your funds for whatever you wish, spend or save. What will you choose?

Who doesn't want the best? Who goes into something saying, "Give me something close to worst." or "When I grow up I want to be mediocre." Of course, one can only be the best they can be, as an individual. If your IQ is 95, you aren't going to be the best, but you can live up to your 95 every day. So you buy the best you can afford (which is not the same as buying the best that you have money in the bank). Afford means something totally different because in reality, we all have interests other than photography, even if it is just making rent.


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aladyforty
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Aug 30, 2013 06:31 |  #94

most of the people I know who have Full Frame cameras are not using green box mode. Most of the newbies have the latest entry level DSLR with kit lenses, then go on to buy some better quality lenses. I don't particularly care what camera people have, the camera does not make the photographer.


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Aug 30, 2013 06:53 |  #95

ronfin wrote in post #16252438 (external link)
To their credit, the Photographers, they took enough shots for them to be very happy, and since neither of them (my cousin and his wife) are into photography, their eyes aren't as critical as yours or mine may be, so she ended-up being happy. Shoot, she has an Instagram account and thinks that's cool photography, so you can see how easy it was for her to be happy. My cousin on the other hand didn't like a lot of the flare shots. Soft white, overexposed kind of look. Not my taste either, but I didn't pay for it. Just thought between the two of them recording the event one of them would be shooting RAW. It's hard to convey how [he] came across. It just seemed arrogant, a little rude, and the way he implied how he gets it right in camera, the way he said it, it was so know-it-all-ish. Really rubbed me the wrong way. I wasn't trying to be critical. I like to pick fellow photographers brains for tips. One of the main reasons I've trolled these forums for so long. Easy to find helpful info by just reading through the threads. Helped me a great deal.

This is the same in every industry. If your not a body guy, you may not notice discrepancies or tiny mistakes in body work after the repair of a car accident. But the owner will never notice once its all buttoned up and painted. I would say most "professionals" are not perfectionists in their fields. (This is sad btw) They do the job so that the customer is happy, and this is what happens most of the time. It's when someone in the same field goes over and starts asking real questions, people go on the defensive. I would say if she is happy with the shots, all is good. I'm the same way where I ask questions, and it tends to piss people off. Deep down the know your asking about their way of doing things.


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Kolor-Pikker
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Aug 30, 2013 07:05 |  #96

Frodge wrote in post #16252834 (external link)
This is the same in every industry. If your not a body guy, you may not notice discrepancies or tiny mistakes in body work after the repair of a car accident. But the owner will never notice once its all buttoned up and painted. I would say most "professionals" are not perfectionists in their fields. (This is sad btw) They do the job so that the customer is happy, and this is what happens most of the time. It's when someone in the same field goes over and starts asking real questions, people go on the defensive. I would say if she is happy with the shots, all is good. I'm the same way where I ask questions, and it tends to piss people off. Deep down the know your asking about their way of doing things.

Being a professional doesn't mean that you're also an artist at what you do, only that you get paid for your work, and maintaining acceptable standards.

Similarly, there is never any guarantee that if you're an artist, that you will be paid, regardless of how much recognition you have.

Amateurs neither earn money for their work, nor do they strive for artistic perfection, and you should just leave them and their shooting modes alone; they'll decide for themselves where to take their hobby.


5DmkII | 24-70 f/2.8L II | Pentax 645Z | 55/2.8 SDM | 120/4 Macro | 150/2.8 IF
I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

  
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Frodge
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Aug 30, 2013 07:39 |  #97

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #16252858 (external link)
Being a professional doesn't mean that you're also an artist at what you do, only that you get paid for your work, and maintaining acceptable standards.

Similarly, there is never any guarantee that if you're an artist, that you will be paid, regardless of how much recognition you have.

Amateurs neither earn money for their work, nor do they strive for artistic perfection, and you should just leave them and their shooting modes alone; they'll decide for themselves where to take their hobby.

That was my point. Most service people (including wedding photographers) do not strive for perfection, which is sad as I've explained. But yes this is a fact of life, and most of the time only the discerning eye will notice mistakes.


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cdang
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Aug 30, 2013 10:27 |  #98

I've met and know many 5D2/5D3 users. None use the green box not that it matters to me. Sounds like a lot of jealous people on here. There are a lot of wealthy people out there who can afford the best. A 1DX may be expensive to you, but it is peanuts to them.




  
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Aug 30, 2013 11:21 |  #99

NeonStar wrote in post #16249682 (external link)
Do you feel like there are a lot of consumers out there that like photography but aren't into photography, but still want to go to the store and see hey that has the highest price tag, it must be the best and get that?

In other words people who probably don't even realize there is a crop factor etc?

Ummm,
I think everyone, regardless of how much money they have, should be forced to start with their cell-phone camera for at least a year before they are allowed even to touch a P&S. Then, if they pass the exam, they can get a crop camera but it must be locked in the Green Box mode for the first 6 months. Then, once they've earned their D. Photog. degree they are entitled to buy a FF camera and even use it in manual mode.

(Me? I "settled" for a 135 format DSLR when they had enough MP - after shooting 4x5 film (with a couple of hundred MP), so FF DSLR already has a crop factor of ~3)

:D:D:D


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NeonStar
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Aug 30, 2013 11:51 |  #100
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cdang wrote in post #16253386 (external link)
I've met and know many 5D2/5D3 users. None use the green box not that it matters to me. Sounds like a lot of jealous people on here. There are a lot of wealthy people out there who can afford the best. A 1DX may be expensive to you, but it is peanuts to them.

But that was the whole point of the topic. Are they just buying it because they can afford it or because they know the differences and need that particular model?




  
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Frodge
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Aug 30, 2013 11:55 |  #101

If I could afford the best camera I would buy it. I wouldn't feel bad about it either. I just can't justify it for my uses.


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Aug 30, 2013 11:58 |  #102

NeonStar wrote in post #16253589 (external link)
Are they just buying it because they can afford it or because they know the differences and need that particular model?

Yes!


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Hogloff
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Aug 30, 2013 12:05 |  #103
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NeonStar wrote in post #16253589 (external link)
But that was the whole point of the topic. Are they just buying it because they can afford it or because they know the differences and need that particular model?

I guess the real question is...why does anyone care what others buy?

Does the guy with the $2.5 million house actually buy that house because he needed it...or could afford it.

Does the guy who bought the porsche buy it because he could afford it or because he needed that car.

Does the lady with the $100,000 rock on her finger buy it because she can afford it or because she needs it.

Life is just like that...




  
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Charlie
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Aug 30, 2013 12:10 |  #104

NeonStar wrote in post #16253589 (external link)
But that was the whole point of the topic. Are they just buying it because they can afford it or because they know the differences and need that particular model?

skill wise, FF owners more often than not have been there and done that for many years. The ratio of green box mode FF users compared to crop users are about 100:1 IME.

My BIL was a crop shooter for a few months, and just not happy with his results. He saw my photos and wanted to emulate the quality I was getting, so he asked for my advice, and I told him FF. He joined the club, but still shot green box. In a few weeks, he'd progress more than he did for months with the crop camera. Now shoots manual, and has a better understanding of all the controls.

sometimes knowing you have the best gets your creative juices flowing, and that happened with him. He's confident with his gear knowing that it's as good as it gets, and can focus on getting the shots he wants.

shot a party a few weeks ago, and I had comments about how crisp and clean my shots were from family members. A few of them alluded to my expensive gear getting those results, but I gladly let them know that those certain shots came from a $300 eos-M :)

I really dont see why it matters if FF buyers buy it for "the best" or not, kind of petty to judge people for their camera gear. It's not like they're driving a BMW..... now those people :lol:


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Dragos ­ Jianu
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Aug 30, 2013 12:12 |  #105

Higgs Boson wrote in post #16252766 (external link)
You are answering the question, "How many photographers buy a full frame camera?" which is not the topic.

1) FF may be a small market but the topic questions the motivation of people already part of that segment so even if it is a small segment, we don't have to get in it, we are already there.

2) 5000? Impulse? You can get a 5D for what? 500 dollars?

3) The Sony RX1 weighs pounds?


Let's say you have no other interests besides photography and you have 10,000 dollars for a camera. You already have a 600mm lens and a 14mm lens.
You have three choices: a point and shoot, a 7D, and a 5Diii. You can keep the balance of your funds for whatever you wish, spend or save. What will you choose?

Who doesn't want the best? Who goes into something saying, "Give me something close to worst." or "When I grow up I want to be mediocre." Of course, one can only be the best they can be, as an individual. If your IQ is 95, you aren't going to be the best, but you can live up to your 95 every day. So you buy the best you can afford (which is not the same as buying the best that you have money in the bank). Afford means something totally different because in reality, we all have interests other than photography, even if it is just making rent.

No, I am pretty sure I'm answering to the OPs question, titled "What % of FF buyers just want "the best"'. People who just buy based on price tag don't buy second hand 5D1s for 500$. And the RX1, much like Leica, specifically target a tiny minority with more money then sense. They don't even amount to 0.5% of FF sales combined.




  
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