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Thread started 02 Sep 2013 (Monday) 12:07
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Contemplating a switch from Canon to Leica...

 
Charlie
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Sep 03, 2013 02:42 |  #46

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #16263351 (external link)
If you want a Leica, and have the cash for it, then no one's going to judge you... but there is going to be a healthy dose of envy.

you mean EVERYONE is going to judge you ;)

sony full frame is promising. would love to shoot FF mirrorless one day, in addition to DSLR's. DSLR's would only be used for fast action or not at all.


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kepa
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Sep 03, 2013 03:00 |  #47

As someone who owns a 5D III and a M9, I definitely advise buying a cheap, film rangefinder first and experiencing the rangefinder way of shooting. It is not for everyone. Do this first before even thinking about anything else.

I have both sytems because one is better suited towards a certain type of photography than the other. I use the 5D III for events, portraits, and holidays that involve a lot of action on my part. I use the M9 for casual photography, street, and holidays where I have more time to concentrate on photography.

Nothing to do with image quality, as L lenses and Leica/Zeiss glass are all great. All to do with function and practicality.




  
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Kolor-Pikker
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Sep 03, 2013 03:46 |  #48

Charlie wrote in post #16263373 (external link)
you mean EVERYONE is going to judge you ;)

Well, yes :)

But it's a bit different when you say you want to buy something, and when you already have something.


5DmkII | 24-70 f/2.8L II | Pentax 645Z | 55/2.8 SDM | 120/4 Macro | 150/2.8 IF
I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

  
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sjones
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Sep 03, 2013 05:55 |  #49

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #16263351 (external link)
You can shoot film, if only for nostalgia's sake or trying something different, but OP wants a camera he can practically use every day in the modern world, I was just shooting down the plane before he got any ideas. To be clear, he's selling all his other gear, and no one can only have a film camera, so that is that. I'm not against film; I am just for this one case.

Leica being contentious? Well, OP brought it up first, being that the thread is called "Contemplating a switch from Canon to Leica", meaning that he already has a good idea of what it is and why he would want one. Are you implying we should tell him what to do with his money and call him off it? I started giving him advice as though he was already set on this idea, not finding more "practical" alternatives, that's none of my business...

Firstly, I agree that film is probably not the best route for the OP, but I was simply commenting on what appeared to be your broader statement against film (buying a film rangefinder is not just the same as buying a Holga). And by the way, I only use film, and it has nothing to do with being different or nostalgic.

In fact, in 2008, I was in somewhat similar situation as the OP. I also wanted a rangefinder, but I could not afford the M8. So I bought a film rangefinder (Voigtlander Bessa). I didn't intend to sell my DSLR, but after shooting my first roll of film, I never used the DSLR again. Keeping unexpected possibilities open is not a bad approach.

Secondly, as with RAW vs. JPEG, full frame vs. crop, or prime vs. zoom, Leica vs. anything often draws very spirited debate on this site. AND THAT'S FINE! But all I was saying, and actually I was being a bit facetious, was to make sure that we have one passionate debate at a time.

And really, if you thought it was not your place to broach 'practical alternatives', fine, but there were less contentious ways to state that film might not be the best choice: "Don't expect anyone to seriously dick around with film, it's not practical anymore; this dinosaur has gone to pasture." That seems like a pretty combative statement, and it is absolutely an unequivocally false one; don't you think? So again, speak for yourself.

Anyway, said my bit; off this thread. But as always, PMs are welcome…


Sept 2017-July 2018 (external link)
Manual Focus; only for street photography amateurs...
It's the Photographer (external link) | God Loves Photoshop (external link)

  
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sacral
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Sep 03, 2013 06:31 |  #50

Good debate here.

In fact, I'm happy to hear about alternatives, mirrorless, etc. My buying philosophy has always been, "buy the best you can afford the 1st time." So there's no wasting money in upgrading a system, etc. I have used mirrorless several times, and it's not too bad an experience. Obviously much more consistent with shooting with a DSLR with autofocus, etc.

A part of me as well wants to really learn and get into the nitty-gritty, so to speak, of photography. Learning how to have full control over the device, learning how to read and interpret the available light, and overall improve my photographic skills. I would love to become a completely available light photographer in all aspects, as those types of photos speak to me more deeply than those with flash.

Keep up the debate. I'm happy to hear all sides of this, as this is quite the investment...


5D classic | 5DmkII | Lenses | Flashes | Blood/sweat/tears
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Kolor-Pikker
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Sep 03, 2013 06:37 |  #51

sjones wrote in post #16263553 (external link)
And really, if you thought it was not your place to broach 'practical alternatives', fine, but there were less contentious ways to state that film might not be the best choice: "Don't expect anyone to seriously dick around with film, it's not practical anymore; this dinosaur has gone to pasture." That seems like a pretty combative statement, and it is absolutely an unequivocally false one; don't you think? So again, speak for yourself.

Well, to be brutally honest, I had a few drinks at that time, so now I'm just trying to backpedal on my alcohol-induced flippantness. :mrgreen:

Continue as usual.

In fact, I'm happy to hear about alternatives, mirrorless, etc. My buying philosophy has always been, "buy the best you can afford the 1st time." So there's no wasting money in upgrading a system, etc. I have used mirrorless several times, and it's not too bad an experience. Obviously much more consistent with shooting with a DSLR with autofocus, etc.

A part of me as well wants to really learn and get into the nitty-gritty, so to speak, of photography. Learning how to have full control over the device, learning how to read and interpret the available light, and overall improve my photographic skills. I would love to become a completely available light photographer in all aspects, as those types of photos speak to me more deeply than those with flash.

No one can argue that Leica rangefinders are bad in any way from an objective standpoint, it's really all about about the price, and for some reason people really like to bash things they cannot afford or find a use for, even though no one is threatening to gut them unless they buy it.

I totally agree on "buy the best first", which is why the first camera I got on my own money was the 5D2 after is was announced, and already had some L glass to back it up. But you said it yourself, this is a serious investment, and no one can say whether it's going to be for you, just like not everyone likes the 135mm focal length. It could be love at first sight or "what is this crap that one аsshole online recommended me?"


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I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

  
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airfrogusmc
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Sep 03, 2013 07:13 |  #52

sacral wrote in post #16263595 (external link)
Good debate here.

In fact, I'm happy to hear about alternatives, mirrorless, etc. My buying philosophy has always been, "buy the best you can afford the 1st time." So there's no wasting money in upgrading a system, etc. I have used mirrorless several times, and it's not too bad an experience. Obviously much more consistent with shooting with a DSLR with autofocus, etc.

A part of me as well wants to really learn and get into the nitty-gritty, so to speak, of photography. Learning how to have full control over the device, learning how to read and interpret the available light, and overall improve my photographic skills. I would love to become a completely available light photographer in all aspects, as those types of photos speak to me more deeply than those with flash.

Keep up the debate. I'm happy to hear all sides of this, as this is quite the investment...

There is a learning curve in using the DoF scales but once you start getting used to it there is no auto focus in the world faster or more accurate than being prefocused.

I am a recovering strob- a-holic :lol: Seriously. At one time I would blast my way through everything. (years of studio work) Now I only use strobes when there is no other option with my professional work and never with my personal work. Learning to see light is a very long a difficult journey. I would recommend looking at the work of some of the photographers that were really good at it. Also spend some time studying the way some of the great painters dealt with light and the way they put their paintings together visually.

Today's photographers think differently. Many can't see real light anymore. They think only in terms of strobe - sure, it all looks beautiful but it's not really seeing. If you have the eyes to see it, the nuances of light are already there on the subject's face. If your thinking is confined to strobe light sources, your palette becomes very mean - which is the reason I photograph only in available light. - Alfred Eisenstaedt

Don’t use a flash out of respect for the natural lighting, even when there isn’t any.-Henri Cartier-Bresson




  
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gfspencer
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Sep 03, 2013 08:05 |  #53

watt100 wrote in post #16262088 (external link)
non-assuming?
learning curve?

all it takes is a pile of $$ !

all celebrities shoot with Leica
http://www.nytimes.com ….html?ref=techn​ology&_r=0 (external link)

Seal is actually a very serious photographer. (I don't know about the other two.)

I have an M6TTL and an M8. The M8 is way behind Canon in sensor technology but I put up with it just to use my Leica lenses.


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airfrogusmc
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Sep 03, 2013 08:13 |  #54

gfspencer wrote in post #16263739 (external link)
Seal is actually a very serious photographer. (I don't know about the other two.)

I have an M6TTL and an M8. The M8 is way behind Canon in sensor technology but I put up with it just to use my Leica lenses.

The MM and the new M are both compared sharpness wise to the Nikon D800 (36mps) and some prefer the color OOC of the new M over the Nikon. The M8 is still an awesome camera. Some die hard Leica folks actually prefer the color of the M9 to the new M. I can't see a difference and would prefer the new M just on it's ability to handle low light so much better. I'm hoping the Leica comes out with a new M-E with out all the bells and whistles the new M has (all manual camera no video) but has the new CMOSIS sensor.




  
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auto-clicker
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Sep 03, 2013 08:18 |  #55

Can you accept manual focussing in this modern age of auto focus? except for one/two models? you'll have to go back a decade in thinking to use one :)


*note i'm not bashing you "fanboys" :p




  
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airfrogusmc
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Sep 03, 2013 08:19 |  #56

Jeff Bridges shoots with a Widelux. So what? He does make some pretty interesting images with it.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Sep 03, 2013 08:22 |  #57

auto-clicker wrote in post #16263779 (external link)
Can you accept manual focussing in this modern age of auto focus? except for one/two models? you'll have to go back a decade in thinking to use one :)


*note i'm not bashing you "fanboys" :p

I prefer it. Its not that hard to manual focus when you need to focus (a lot easier than with a DSLR) and with some practice using the DoF scales you can pre focus and there is no auto focus thats as fast as that. A big reason most street photographers prefer that method.

BTW I'm a fan boy of Hasselblad, Leica, Canon Nikon, Deardorff or whatever is the right tool for the job. Just never been a fan boy of the one size fits all thinking. .




  
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Kolor-Pikker
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Sep 03, 2013 08:40 |  #58

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16263789 (external link)
I prefer it. Its not that hard to manual focus when you need to focus (a lot easier than with a DSLR) and with some practice using the DoF scales you can pre focus and there is no auto focus thats as fast as that. A big reason most street photographers prefer that method.

Most people dislike manual focus because they only experience it on cameras not intended for it, like all modern DSLRs. Absent or unusable DOF scales, no split image, small viewfinder, focus screens only let you see up to f/2.5 DOF unless you buy a replacement, and so on.

BTW I'm a fan boy of Hasselblad, Leica, Canon Nikon, Deardorff or whatever is the right tool for the job. Just never been a fan boy of the one size fits all thinking.

Indeed, the purpose of a compact/rangefinder/Le​ica style camera is pretty clear cut, it's a "normal" camera if there ever was one. No macros, no telephotos, no tilt-shifts, no zooms, or any other exotic designs. For some that could be all they ever need.


I'm going to not help by linking to this review of the M240: http://www.youtube.com …=UUuw8B6Uv0cMWt​V5vbNpeH_A (external link)


5DmkII | 24-70 f/2.8L II | Pentax 645Z | 55/2.8 SDM | 120/4 Macro | 150/2.8 IF
I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

  
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airfrogusmc
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Sep 03, 2013 08:50 |  #59

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #16263828 (external link)
Most people dislike manual focus because they only experience it on cameras not intended for it, like all modern DSLRs. Absent or unusable DOF scales, no split image, small viewfinder, focus screens only let you see up to f/2.5 DOF unless you buy a replacement, and so on.


Indeed, the purpose of a compact/rangefinder/Le​ica style camera is pretty clear cut, it's a "normal" camera if there ever was one. No macros, no telephotos, no tilt-shifts, no zooms, or any other exotic designs. For some that could be all they ever need.


I'm going to not help by linking to this review of the M240: http://www.youtube.com …=UUuw8B6Uv0cMWt​V5vbNpeH_A (external link)

How 'bout that .95 50mm Noctilux ?




  
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Kolor-Pikker
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Sep 03, 2013 10:24 |  #60

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16263848 (external link)
How 'bout that .95 50mm Noctilux ?

Gear pr0n, amirite? It's about as an everyday walk-around lens as the 85L is, maybe even less so. Leica has better lenses that are also 1/5th the price.


5DmkII | 24-70 f/2.8L II | Pentax 645Z | 55/2.8 SDM | 120/4 Macro | 150/2.8 IF
I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

  
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