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Thread started 03 Sep 2013 (Tuesday) 19:30
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How does FF improve image quality?

 
kin2son
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Sep 03, 2013 21:42 |  #31
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Frodge wrote in post #16265937 (external link)
This is why I feel bad for newcomers on this forum that just bought their new rebels looking for some advice.

If they are better informed, they should have bought a mirrorless instead.

There's no real advantage for newcomers buying into low/midrange crop DSLR these days imho, but sadly a lot of novice still thinks a bulky DSLR = better and sharper picture than a small camera.


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moltengold
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Sep 03, 2013 21:50 |  #32

TJays wrote in post #16265954 (external link)
Close in focal mm (100) I'm blown away with my 85mm/1.2 II L on either my 5DMRK III or IDX, but not on my 7D. There are other very sharp L's, I'm just comparing near focal mm 100 vs 85mm which was your question

Thanks a lot


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Frodge
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Sep 03, 2013 21:51 |  #33

Why doesn't canon discontinue the rebel and xxd line and just push the m?


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YashicaFX2
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Sep 03, 2013 21:52 |  #34
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davidc502 wrote in post #16265750 (external link)
I'd say it's the bit of matter between the eye-piece and the floor. ;)

I really feel like I should disagree with you. I'm not totally convinced that the 5D 'betterness' isn't all in my head, just because I want it to be. That would be my excuse to buy a 5DIII.


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moltengold
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Sep 03, 2013 21:56 |  #35

but i remember that i had some sharp photos with my ex 600D and the 60mm f/2.8 macro sharper than the 100L with my ex 5D2 and 5D3 and sharper than my 6D why ?

i will answer my self
the 600D had a built in flash and the FF bodies dont
thats why
if i want a very sharp images from the FF i must use an external flash


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kin2son
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Sep 03, 2013 21:58 |  #36
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Frodge wrote in post #16265995 (external link)
Why doesn't canon discontinue the rebel and xxd line and just push the m?

Because Canon knows there are still plenty of ill informed novice out there who will continue buying into the Rebels? I mean why would you discontinue the line if it continues to make money :p

Like many large company, Canon is slow, arrogant and reluctant to change and adapt, smiliar to Nikon with its J1/V1 line which is also a total failure.


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Frodge
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Sep 03, 2013 22:13 |  #37

I think the crops sensors have a place in the market, a pretty big one. You could make more of an argument that the upper end glass and ff stuff is more of te arrogance. I'm sure rebels make more money overall. Canon would be a much smaller company of they only produced cameras only a small number of people could understand.
Companies are in the game to make money. For the very large majority of people, a rebel will outperform their needs in a good majority of the cases. There are threads in these forums of people asking how a 7d will help them I they upgrade....why would this person choose to upgrade to a camera that they don't know how it will help them? I've said this before, I've seen amazing photos in the rebel threads. I own several old 35mm bodies, a t3i and a 60d. A full frame is no where on my horizon. The quality of my prints are excellent. I cannot justify a full frame at this time. Canon understand te market and thy most people don't want to invest 5 grand on a kit after all is said and done. This is not accusatory, but the arrogance is in the people going around convincing people they need ff.


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Sep 03, 2013 22:17 |  #38

Frodge wrote in post #16266065 (external link)
I think the crops sensors have a place in the market, a pretty big one. You could make more of an argument that the upper end glass and ff stuff is more of te arrogance. I'm sure rebels make more money overall. Canon would be a much smaller company of they only produced cameras only a small number of people could understand.

They'd be Leica.


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moltengold
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Sep 03, 2013 22:21 |  #39

i like the photos from the 60D and its a crop body more than the photos from the FF
i love the three brothers
50mm f/1.8
18-55
55-250
they are cheap but gives a great photos on the crop bodies


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Sep 03, 2013 22:30 |  #40

NeonStar wrote in post #16265618 (external link)
Or I mean does it improve image quality?
I know about crop factor, low light performance and depth of field, but assuming ISO 100 how different would pictures from crop vs ff be?

Assuming nearly the same generation FF to crop, the FF will yield less noisy and sharper images due to a couple of reasons (less dense sensor, different AA filter presumably).

However, if you are focal-length limited and want more, then FF doesn't supply all the advantages you might need. A crop body will put more pixels on target, and with a good sharp lens, will produce a better image than a FF cropped image, then resized up to the same resolution of the crop. Been there, done it... :)

Now if you are able to add a 1.4x to your FF to get most of the 1.6 reach back, the results are very, very comparable, but you lose a stop of light, so if you raise up the ISO a stop, you are reducing the advantage of the FF in a different way.


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Richard ­ N
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Sep 03, 2013 23:24 |  #41

Medium format kicks FF a$$...


:D:D:D

seriously though.... this is a useless thread, apologies to the OP.


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brettjrob
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Sep 03, 2013 23:41 |  #42

Frodge wrote in post #16265937 (external link)
This is why I feel bad for newcomers on this forum that just bought their new rebels looking for some advice.

Agreed that it's a real fallacy for anyone on a budget who isn't a professional. It is *way* cheaper to get decent glass for crop, nevermind the price differential for the body itself. As someone else mentioned, in many cases, no one will ever know the difference if not printing large or shooting in extreme low light conditions.

The T4i/T3i can be had for around $500. Pair it with something like a 15-85 and 70-200 f/4L, and you've got IQ that's more than sufficient for most hobbyists' needs at under $1500.

Seriously, the Rebel series are more than sufficient for most people's needs if they aren't shooting a lot of action. I shot them for eight years, and know a professional in my photographic specialty who did the same for even longer and made a living off it. A Rebel is literally 1/3 the cost of the cheapest current-gen FF body you can get.

An entry-level FF system will run you on the order of $3000. And even then, you're probably going to be looking at overall weaker lens resolution across the frame. Getting edge-to-edge sharp glass for FF on Canon is *seriously* frustrating if you don't have a huge budget and/or aren't willing to go with all primes. I don't know why some people in this thread are acting like FF magically makes a lot of EF lenses better, because IMO more often than not, it's the exact opposite. Many lenses are relatively strong near the center, but fall apart at the edges. The crop factor makes the weak areas "disappear," so to speak.

Of course, don't take all this to mean I think FF isn't worth it. I'm an FF owner, after all. If you *need* high ISO frequently, it's certainly worth it. (For example, I enjoy doing nightscapes and milky way shots, and FF absolutely stomps crop in that area -- there's simply no way to compensate for the vastly superior performance at ISO 3200+ unless you have like an f/1.2 lens for your crop). If you want to print large, it's worth it. If you shoot a lot of landscapes that get pushed hard in PP, the cleaner RAW files can be worthwhile even at low ISO.

But if you mainly do a lot of "walkaround"/street/tr​avel photography, shoot your kids/pets, etc., then you really shouldn't feel obligated to move up. The difference in results probably won't feel like what you'd expect for the investment.


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Sep 03, 2013 23:56 |  #43

In the same way cropping degrades it.


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flashpoint99
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Sep 04, 2013 00:05 |  #44

This thread is hilarious!......seems crop sensors are inferior and the rebel line is below so many of you....then I think back to last year when my friend ,a semi pro photog ,sold her landscape photos and prints to a downtown law firm for 30k....all shot with a Rebel.....if only they had know those beautiful photographs were shot on a crop sensor...oh the horror......To the OP er.....it's not the camera it's the person using it.




  
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Sep 04, 2013 00:21 |  #45

YashicaFX2 wrote in post #16265739 (external link)
If that is true, why do I sometimes like what my 5D produces with mediocre glass, more than what my 60D produces with top-flight EFs glass? Or why do I like my 28-135 a lot more on the 5D than on the 60D? Perhaps it is just wishful thinking.

That's interesting. I prefer the images my 50D produces more than those produced by my full frame 5D, in most real-life shooting situations.


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