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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 03 Sep 2013 (Tuesday) 14:56
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Give photos as a gift, they and up in a magazine

 
sspellman
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Sep 03, 2013 23:34 |  #16

Chalk this up to a lesson learned. Its not the magazines fault that they published photographs given to them for free by the subject. It's your friend the celebrity's fault for giving away your creative property without payment.

For now, I would highlight the magazine photos in your marketing and social media efforts to at least maximize the benefit to you- "as seen in XYZ Magazine". Normally, I don't exploit my personal pictures of celebrity friends, but he has already done that to himself. You can also contact the magazine editor and ask for work from them since your quality is clearly good enough to be in their magazine.

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gigolo
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Sep 04, 2013 01:17 |  #17

You gave the photos but you didn't give him a license. You still hold the copyright and he has no explicit license. Perhaps a judge would say he has an implicit license to keep the images on his computer for viewing. But this doesn't mean he can give them to others or that the magazine could print them, unless the law has some exemptions for journalists and the magazine is seen by a judge as doing journalism. But even if you verbally told him to do whatever he wanted with the pics, he has no license to do anything.

If you want to give photos as a gift, you should also provide a license with them.




  
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flowrider
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Sep 04, 2013 01:22 |  #18

This is like giving a lottery ticket as a gift and demanding half if it wins. Gifts are something without strings attached.


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Thomas ­ Campbell
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Sep 04, 2013 01:37 |  #19

Acetoolguy wrote in post #16265231 (external link)
You gave them as gift.....do you usually attach strings to gifts?

He gave them as a gift to the person. He didn't give **** to the magazine.

Magazines know better than to run pics without the permission of the author/owner.

blogs wrote in post #16265303 (external link)
Well wouldnt having your photos published in a mag help you score more work? I cant see the problem-free advertising...? I think u are being a little precious

Not even remotely. I've had the cover of ESPN and USA Today, been in SI, Texas Monthly, Forbes, etc and it does not lead to more work. The only people that read bylines are photographers and the mothers of photographers.

PhotosGuy wrote in post #16266129 (external link)
I have to agree. IMO "gift" w/out paperwork = no restrictions on how the images were to be used. The OP was given a credit which was a nice gesture, but not required.

Actually, no. The onus is on the magazine to make sure they have permission to publish everything they run. If the OP wanted to sue them, "The guy in the pic gave it to me!" is not a valid defense.

sspellman wrote in post #16266283 (external link)
Its not the magazines fault that they published photographs given to them for free by the subject. It's your friend the celebrity's fault for giving away your creative property without payment.

Actually, it is the magazine's fault. They are at fault for just running a byline and not contacting the person in the byline to make sure they could use it. This is standard operating procedure for newspapers/magazines around the world.

flowrider wrote in post #16266449 (external link)
This is like giving a lottery ticket as a gift and demanding half if it wins. Gifts are something without strings attached.

He gave it to the dude. He didn't give it to the magazine. Why should they take advantage of the OP and make money off the OP when they were no a part to his gift?


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gigolo
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Sep 04, 2013 01:55 as a reply to  @ Thomas Campbell's post |  #20

Gifts according to law: http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Gift_(law (external link))

"Conditional gifts can be revoked based on (1) donee not full-filling the conditions (2) breach of contract by donor"

It's easy: just explain that the gift was conditional upon the condition that the actor wouldn't give the photos to any magazine. He did, so he breached the conditions. :)




  
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cdifoto
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Sep 04, 2013 06:22 |  #21

gigolo wrote in post #16266490 (external link)
Gifts according to law: http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Gift_(law (external link))

"Conditional gifts can be revoked based on (1) donee not full-filling the conditions (2) breach of contract by donor"

It's easy: just explain that the gift was conditional upon the condition that the actor wouldn't give the photos to any magazine. He did, so he breached the conditions. :)

1. Conditions have to be laid out ahead of time. They can't be applied after the fact.
2. Don't get legal advice from Wikipedia.

Now, OP can certainly go after the magazine because he has the legal basis to do so. But he also gave the photos as a gift to his friend and it could damage that friendship. Since the friend clearly doesn't understand copyright (photos of celebrities get tossed around all the time, sometimes less than legitimately and sometimes with the legalities handled behind the scenes), and OP didn't explain it to him, it's not exactly absurd for the friend to assume he had the right to do anything he wanted to - including hand them over to a magazine.


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gigolo
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Sep 04, 2013 07:35 |  #22

cdifoto wrote in post #16266771 (external link)

1. Conditions have to be laid out ahead of time. They can't be applied after the fact.

Ugh, didn't thought of that. Couldn't someone say there were verbal conditions agreed which were later unilaterally broken?

Anyway I think that a friendship can lead to more photos later on, so I'd advise OP to ask his friend for a formal photoshoot. If the friend doesn't accept then it means the friendship won't lead to more photos, therefore I'd advise OP to try to recover as much value as possible from the existing photos... re-publish them or go after the magazine.




  
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Landcruiser
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Sep 04, 2013 08:01 |  #23

Hello paycheck, goodbye family friend....

I wondered why most photographers have few if any friends. Now I know.




  
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onona
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Sep 04, 2013 08:04 |  #24

cdifoto wrote in post #16265562 (external link)
I read every word. Did you?

No but apparently the OP does. If I gift photography, I don't dictate how the images can be used. Copyright be damned, I gave the photos away so if they decide to promote themselves with them, so be it. The friend of the OP is an actor. He should have seen this coming a mile away. Actors are compulsive self-promoters. It's a given that they will send out any and all photos to whoever they think is going to put them in a good light.

In other words if you want to be paid for it, don't give it away.

Apologies, I thought you were chastising him for giving away the photos for free.

I agree with you.


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Sep 04, 2013 10:24 |  #25

gigolo wrote in post #16266869 (external link)
Ugh, didn't thought of that. Couldn't someone say there were verbal conditions agreed which were later unilaterally broken?

Someone could say avocado trees grow in Antarctica. Wouldn't make it so.


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D ­ 550D
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Sep 04, 2013 11:07 |  #26

Wow, I didn't expect so much response when I created the thread. Thank you for your thoughts. Legal action is out of question due to cost and trouble that come with it.
I spread the news about the published photos in my social media and that's some promotion.
Other than that it's lesson learned.
For most photoshoots a write a simple contract and have the people that get the photos to sign the contract. I made an exception one time and than this happens.


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D ­ 550D
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Sep 04, 2013 11:17 |  #27

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #16266465 (external link)
He gave it to the dude. He didn't give it to the magazine. Why should they take advantage of the OP and make money off the OP when they were no a part to his gift?

Exactly


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the ­ flying ­ moose
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Sep 04, 2013 11:30 |  #28

At least he didn't sell the photos to the magazine.




  
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PMGphotog
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Sep 04, 2013 11:32 |  #29

If say I'm at a party and I take some pictures of someone semi famous, can I sell them to a magazine and get paid? Just to turn the situation around a bit.

While what the famous guy did is not against the law, it wasn't a nice thing to do to friend. I'd be tempted to ask him if he would be okay with you selling some other pictures you took to a magazine.


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Landcruiser
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Sep 04, 2013 12:33 |  #30

D 550D wrote in post #16267331 (external link)
Wow, I didn't expect so much response when I created the thread. Thank you for your thoughts. Legal action is out of question due to cost and trouble that come with it.
I spread the news about the published photos in my social media and that's some promotion.
Other than that it's lesson learned.
For most photoshoots a write a simple contract and have the people that get the photos to sign the contract. I made an exception one time and than this happens.

Was this at a photoshoot or party of a family friend? Do tell how this approach goes next party.




  
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