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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 30 Jul 2013 (Tuesday) 20:42
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Should I shoot in AV mode??

 
My4SunshineGirls
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Jul 30, 2013 20:42 |  #1

I took some shots over the weekend where the light was changing a lot and there was a large variable in lighting conditions (shade/open sun/sun reflecting off lake).

I placed my subjects in the shade under a tree and had the highly reflective lake behind them. I shot in manual and took the meter reading off the face and used spot metering, but a handful had the skin tones overexposed. The lighting was changing also as the sun kept peeking in and out of the clouds.

In this situation would it be best to shoot in AV? I was thinking if I did that the people would be underexposed because of the highly reflective water behind them. What are your thoughts? What mode would you shoot in?




  
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Jul 30, 2013 20:55 |  #2

My4SunshineGirls wrote in post #16168211 (external link)
I took some shots over the weekend where the light was changing a lot and there was a large variable in lighting conditions (shade/open sun/sun reflecting off lake).

I placed my subjects in the shade under a tree and had the highly reflective lake behind them. I shot in manual and took the meter reading off the face and used spot metering, but a handful had the skin tones overexposed. The lighting was changing also as the sun kept peeking in and out of the clouds.

In this situation would it be best to shoot in AV? I was thinking if I did that the people would be underexposed because of the highly reflective water behind them. What are your thoughts? What mode would you shoot in?


Fill flash. (external link) With a heavily backlit subject, it's a very good way to get a useable exposure. The next best strategy would be spot metering.




  
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My4SunshineGirls
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Jul 30, 2013 21:20 as a reply to  @ DC Fan's post |  #3

I have a 430 ex ii speedlight, when taking a group photo and I have to back up it doesn't reach very far for fill flash.




  
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rent
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Jul 30, 2013 21:29 |  #4

I don't see how AV would help. It seems the problem is with metering. I think you did the right thing with spot meter off the skin. Maybe getting the subject to hold a grey card out and meter off that every now and then would help too.

-alex


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mike_d
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Jul 30, 2013 23:12 |  #5

If I have the time to manually adjust my exposure, then I shoot in M as I'm usually happier with the result. If the light is constantly changing and I have to shoot and scoot, Av it is.




  
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Wilt
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Jul 31, 2013 00:33 |  #6

Simply peeping at the histogram is too simplistic an approach, one which is not necessarily always appropriate!

Simply spot metering skin is too simplistic an approach...different races have different fundamental skin brightnesses for that approach to work. Even Caucasion skin tans duing the summertime due to sun exposure, lightens in the winter due to lack of sun exposure...that is not a consistent way to determine exposure. And if I spotmeter MrObama's skin in one photo and meter MsClinton's skin in another, they will appear to have identical skin brightness in the two photos, even though we know differently! And the rest of the scene will be overexposed after I spotmeter MrObama's skin, while the rest of the scene will be underexposed if I meter MsClinton's very light skin during the winter.

Some scenes are brighter than average (bride in white against a snow scene), and some are darker than average (black cat in a coal mine)...so simply using the reflective light meter in our cameras can fool the camera into a wrong exposure. Or we can employ EC to help the meter in setting things under Av (or any other mode)

Av is merely one example of Control Setting Automation, and is equally prone to exposure errors made by the meter as any other mode (Green Box, P, Tv, Manual) from full automation to no-automation.

Understand better the principles behind determining 'proper exposure' ...
https://photography-on-the.net …hp?p=16168625&p​ostcount=1


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Jul 31, 2013 02:59 |  #7

My4SunshineGirls wrote in post #16168309 (external link)
I have a 430 ex ii speedlight, when taking a group photo and I have to back up it doesn't reach very far for fill flash.

Examples of how fill flash works with basic equipment and a Canon automatic exposure mode.

These images used a Canon Digital Rebel XS and a Canon 220EX Speedlite, Canon's smallest and least powerful EX-series flash. The images were taken outdoors in bright sunshine. The subjects were faced away from the sun. When the camera was set in Program AE autoexposure, the combination of the XS and 220EX calculated the correct exposure.

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The shadows at the subjects' feet hints how they would have been under exposed without fill flash. This happened in a real backlit situation, with a small external flash and a basic camera in an automated mode.



  
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My4SunshineGirls
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Aug 01, 2013 23:03 as a reply to  @ DC Fan's post |  #8

Those are great DC Fan, and I can get some of my photos really great with my 430 exii too if I'm standing close enough.

I am not all that experienced with my flash yet so I just use the TTL mode, so when I use my telephoto lens and back up a ways, the flash does not reach in TTL mode. In this case should I put the flash into manual and bump up the power? Would that work well with the 430??




  
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Wilt
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Aug 02, 2013 00:27 |  #9

My4SunshineGirls wrote in post #16174375 (external link)
... when I use my telephoto lens and back up a ways, the flash does not reach in TTL mode. In this case should I put the flash into manual and bump up the power? Would that work well with the 430??

If you are shooting in ETTL mode and not getting enough light, putting the flash into Manual will NOT give you any more light.

After you pour 32 fl.oz. from a quart container, there is no way to get another 8 fl.oz. out of that container. You cannot get any more light out of the flash than 'all the light it can possibly output' either!

Due to the Inverse Square Law, the intensity of the light falls off with distance, and that is why 'not enough light' occurs when you stand farther away while using a telephoto lens.


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mike_d
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Aug 02, 2013 00:30 |  #10

Wilt wrote in post #16174489 (external link)
If you are shooting in ETTL mode and not getting enough light, putting the flash into Manual will NOT give you any more light.

After you pour 32 fl.oz. from a quart container, there is no way to get another 8 fl.oz. out of that container. You cannot get any more light out of the flash than 'all the light it can possibly output' either!

Due to the Inverse Square Law, the intensity of the light falls off with distance, and that is why 'not enough light' occurs when you stand farther away while using a telephoto lens.

I thought manual had marginally more flash power due to the lack of ETTL pre-flash.




  
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Wilt
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Aug 02, 2013 00:38 |  #11

mike_d wrote in post #16174495 (external link)
I thought manual had marginally more flash power due to the lack of ETTL pre-flash.

'more available power' might indeed be true due to lack of pre-flash, but the difference wouldn't be enough to really matter, as far as extending flash range! It would be interesting to conduct a test with a flash in ETTL vs. a flash in Manual, and shoot at night and look at quantifying any difference in flash range. Even if the difference was 1/3EV in available power, that translates to 14.4' vs. 16.3' at the 'normal lens' GN130 of a 580EX, or 12.3' vs. 13.9' for the GN11 of a 430EX.


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Aug 02, 2013 00:54 |  #12

I just did a bit more research, and the GN111.5 rating is for Manual flash power from 430EX with 50mm lens (FF).

At the same time, Canon also states the 'exposure control system' has 'effective flash range' with 50mm f/1.4 lens of 79.7'. And if we do the arithmetic, 79.7' * 1.4 = GN111.58, so it would appear that ETTL arithmetic is not any different from Canon's Manual flash Guide Number.


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Aug 02, 2013 02:39 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #13

The other option, would be a reflector.. probably a pretty-good sized one (or more), depending on how far we're really talking about.


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Sep 04, 2013 14:20 |  #14

fill flash; alot of people think its only for dusk and beyond


Brad
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Should I shoot in AV mode??
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