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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 01 Sep 2013 (Sunday) 17:52
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Access to shoot School Athletics

 
p3av8or
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Sep 01, 2013 17:52 |  #1

I'm at a loss here. I've shot thousands of club swimmers, but the local school districts seem to have a policy of "No professional photographer access" to ALL of the athletic programs unless they have an existing contract for posed portraits. I've been told that it's a privacy issue, a money issue, a safety issue. Do I live in the only city in the US that is this hard-headed? I'm about ready to shoot from the stands and sidelines and bypass them altogether.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


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Thomas ­ Campbell
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Sep 01, 2013 19:00 |  #2

It is a money issue. Likely the photographer that does have access paid for exclusive access.


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p3av8or
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Sep 01, 2013 20:41 as a reply to  @ Thomas Campbell's post |  #3

I wish that were the case. I could maybe get into 1 sport. AD won't let anyone into swim. Cited liability issues if "pictures were posted online". All of my photos are password protected. Not into football. "Not going to let someone make a ton of money on us". They won't let ANY pros in except for posed pictures. Maybe she's been burned before. Maybe she has an arrangement with the posed folks and doesn't want any competition. My daughters' team pics last year were horrible! Because of the low light at the pool, it looked like they shot a 50mm at f/1.8. The only person in focus was the coach in the center of the front row!!

I offered a percentage of sales. Not interested. Offered to give to the Booster Clubs. "I would have to be convinced they asked for you." Ok... How?? No answer. Going to meet Boosters later this week. Maybe they can talk some sense into her. Otherwise, I'll talk to the Visiting teams and see if they will let me on their side.


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Travelingman
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Sep 02, 2013 09:18 |  #4

High school sports is a tough game to make money. Too many parents with very good equipment giving files to every tom, dick and mary.




  
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Zivnuska
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Sep 02, 2013 15:49 |  #5

p3av8or wrote in post #16259957 (external link)
. I could maybe get into 1 sport. AD won't let anyone into swim. Cited liability issues if "pictures were posted online". Not into football. "Not going to let someone make a ton of money on us". Otherwise, I'll talk to the Visiting teams and see if they will let me on their side.

If she sincerely believes there is a problem with posting online, she could be directed to the thousands of photos of Texas high school teams posted on MaxPreps.

You may be successful in approaching the AD at other schools to get permission at their facility.


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Sep 04, 2013 06:50 |  #6

1. AD might know nothing about photography and how images are used. Ignorance is rampant in our school systems.

2. Schools and other organizations involving children are terrified over privacy issues and possible lawsuits.

Thankfully, I am welcome at our high school. The kids, their families and friends love the photos I post with no privacy settings for everyone to see.


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p3av8or
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Sep 04, 2013 20:57 |  #7

Just had a great little meeting with my home school's football boosters. They were VERY receptive and were asking how many pictures I'd shoot, if I shot sidelines, etc... Hopefully they can change the AD's perspective.


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dwarrenr
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Sep 05, 2013 06:24 |  #8

p3av8or wrote in post #16268798 (external link)
Just had a great little meeting with my home school's football boosters. They were VERY receptive and were asking how many pictures I'd shoot, if I shot sidelines, etc... Hopefully they can change the AD's perspective.


If anyone has any sort of pull over an AD, it will be the boosters. In my short 7 years of shooting HS sports I've come across only a handful of what I would call 'great' AD's. Although most do have the student athealtes best interest in mind...most hare guided by other people and their self interest. So even when you 'back door' them it will only make a difference for a short time and in the long haul you'll not make much headway. I fully understand this is your home school...so I'm not at all saying you should not fight for the access...but just saying personally I would have just moved on and let the boosters fight it, if they see value, without any prodding from me. Sooner or later the school system would see value, as most do, in you covering the game. The key to all of this is to change the mind set of the AD and show there is value in you covering their games. Again this is not a negative comment on how you are going about this. After all the only thing I know about this situation is from your two posts. So please don't take it as such. Just sharing my point of view working this area for a short seven years.

Good luck and please keep us posted on how thing progress.


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p3av8or
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Sep 07, 2013 07:33 |  #9

Warren,
It's rare that I see anything from a "seasoned" member of these boards give anything other than constructive criticism and I appreciate your candor. I expressed to the AD that I felt that the Boosters wanted me to attend and she asked for "proof". I don't feel that I am circumventing her efforts, just meeting her expectations. Hopefully, she see's it the same way. I felt that I needed to show my work to boosters to get them moving in my direction.
That said, the Boosters came back and are asking for a proposal. I have a general one that I use for swim to gain exclusivity for a single meet, but nothing for teams. I know that they are asking for digital copies for a "Media Guide" for fundraising. I offered them copies of the ones that I shot from the stands, but I plan to offer a set number (5-10) of digitals with atttribution on/near the images for each game that I shoot. Should I charge for a cover photo? Additional interior shots? Any tips/hints?

I'm a member of PPA and NAPP, but have been putting off SEP. Are they useful in assisting with proposals? I will have a lawyer go over everything prior to submission.


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p3av8or
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Sep 07, 2013 13:10 |  #10

May have answered my own question concerning SEP. If they haven't been able to update their landing page since Imaging USA 2011, they can't be very relevant.


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dwarrenr
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Sep 08, 2013 07:25 |  #11

p3av8or wrote in post #16275739 (external link)
Warren,
...I expressed to the AD that I felt that the Boosters wanted me to attend and she asked for "proof".

Well see...I find this odd as well...not odd that she want's proof...but odd that the AD and Boosters do not have communication lines. All of the ones I've worked with the Pres of the Boosters will have communication with the AD several times a week.

p3av8or wrote in post #16275739 (external link)
I don't feel that I am circumventing her efforts, just meeting her expectations. Hopefully, she see's it the same way. I felt that I needed to show my work to boosters to get them moving in my direction.

Fair enough.

p3av8or wrote in post #16275739 (external link)
That said, the Boosters came back and are asking for a proposal. I have a general one that I use for swim to gain exclusivity for a single meet, but nothing for teams. I know that they are asking for digital copies for a "Media Guide" for fundraising. I offered them copies of the ones that I shot from the stands, but I plan to offer a set number (5-10) of digitals with atttribution on/near the images for each game that I shoot. Should I charge for a cover photo? Additional interior shots? Any tips/hints?

I'm a member of PPA and NAPP, but have been putting off SEP. Are they useful in assisting with proposals? I will have a lawyer go over everything prior to submission.

So are you saying the boosters are going to pay you to shoot the game, or buy images or both?

We're not here to tell you what you should charge, that is your choice...although a lot of people will complain about people "killing" the business by giving away free images...I don't generally buy into that.

Now with that said I would go into this deal and price it as my game rate and then sell limited license for each image they want to use. You might even include 5 licenses' in your game rate and charge x for any additional lisc. And since you're working with the boosters also want to put in there that the whole thing is subject to getting deck access.

My quote will actually be the contract they and I would sign, would cover the time I'll be there, what I'll be covering, and what they'll get. I'll also have an addendum to cover the licensing rights I'll be giving them. I'll also attach a copy of my insurance Dec page.


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p3av8or
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Sep 08, 2013 10:29 |  #12

The Boosters will pay my rate for a game, and travel if requested. I will provide a few(haven't settled on a number yet) digital copies with copyright markings for their media guide. The parents will purchase the images and I will give a percentage of sale to the Booster Club. The digitals will be for inside their guide only. If they want a cover shot, there will be language to purchase it separately. Same to purchase additional images for the book. I need to include language to allow for game cancellations or scheduling conflicts.

All licensing will be for personal use and no digitals sold to parents. I may offer a "Master disk" at the end of the season with 800x600 images for the banquet. There will be a modest charge for that. I am definitely not going to give them away. This is my second "real" year in the business and I don't have time to work for free. It's easy to drop prices, but pretty challenging to raise them.

Again, I appreciate all of the creative criticism. Keep it coming!


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Sep 25, 2013 16:49 |  #13

When my daughter was cheering for middle and high school. I just walked on the field and was never stopped, but I looked like I should be there. Was not working to make money, just some pictures from my daughter and her friends. I was shooting both the cheerleaders and the games.


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