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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 08 Sep 2013 (Sunday) 09:40
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7D to upgrade or not

 
The ­ Gent
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Sep 08, 2013 09:40 |  #1

Hi,

I am really struggling with the decision to upgrade my 7D or not. I am an amateur enthusiast so I don't make any money out of photography at all. I currently own the following lenses:

EFS 10 - 22mm f/3.5 - 4.5
EFS 15 - 85mm f/3.5 - 5.6
EF 50mm f/1.8
EF 70 - 300 f/4 - 5.6

I have been toying with the idea of a second hand 5d mk II or even going for the 5d mk III. I understand all the differences in terms of the autofocus and so on, and the features, I am only now thinking about actual image quality. I shoot mainly landscape / city scape, occasional portrait / street photography.

What I am really concerned with is the image quality difference between a 7D with say 15 - 85mm compared with a 5D mk2/3 with a 24-70 f/2.8 L. So I know that all the EFS lenses are no good on the full frame, but I am a bit worried that if I splash the cash out on a 5D with L lenses is the image quality going to be so much better that I will notice it?

I know that the 5D mk2/3 will give me 4 mega pixels extra, but I won't ever be printing images so big.

So my heart is saying that I would love to get some better gear, my head is saying that better photos come from technique and mastering skills and that I will spend all this extra money and the image quality improvement will only be marginal.

So the big questions my current gear vs a 5D mk2/3 with L lenses, how much better image quality do you get?

Thanks,

Kevin




  
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killwilly
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Sep 08, 2013 10:02 |  #2

The Gent wrote in post #16278463 (external link)
Hi,


So my heart is saying that I would love to get some better gear, my head is saying that better photos come from technique and mastering skills and that I will spend all this extra money and the image quality improvement will only be marginal.

Kevin

Kevin, I think you have answered your own question. Learn to use what you already have before an upgrade. There is nothing wrong with the gear you already have.


Alan. flickr (external link)
---------------
Canon 7D. Canon 15-85 EF-S Lens. Canon 55-250 EF-S Lens. Speedlite 430ex 11.
Canon EOS-M. Canon 18-55 EF-M Lens. Speedlite 90EX.
Sigma APO 150-500mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM.

  
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Snydremark
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Sep 08, 2013 10:20 |  #3

The 7D is a great camera and will continue to deliver great results the more you work with it; however, for your stated uses one of the FF bodies will give you a bit more control (DoF, etc) and higher ISO capabilities. While the 7D can be expanded up to 12800 and be usable in a pinch, it appears** to take a bit more effort to get workable results out of it there than from a 5D II/III. The 5D II can be pushed up to 25600 and the MkIII handles up to 25600 natively, with 51200 and 102400 available as boosted options; those levels would make the dimmer environments that you may wind up shooting in for your stated styles.

**: I say 'appears' here because I haven't used one of the 5D series, personally, just observed what comes up here, frequently. I use the 7D up to 3200 without a second thought, though, and have used 6400 to capture something I just had to have.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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MakisM1
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Sep 08, 2013 10:22 |  #4

The Gent wrote in post #16278463 (external link)
Hi,

I am really struggling with the decision to upgrade my 7D or not. I am an amateur enthusiast so I don't make any money out of photography at all. I currently own the following lenses:

EFS 10 - 22mm f/3.5 - 4.5
EFS 15 - 85mm f/3.5 - 5.6
EF 50mm f/1.8
EF 70 - 300 f/4 - 5.6
...
What I am really concerned with is the image quality difference between a 7D with say 15 - 85mm compared with a 5D mk2/3 with a 24-70 f/2.8 L. ...

...

So my heart is saying that I would love to get some better gear, my head is saying that better photos come from technique and mastering skills and that I will spend all this extra money and the image quality improvement will only be marginal.

So the big questions my current gear vs a 5D mk2/3 with L lenses, how much better image quality do you get?

Thanks,

Kevin

Kevin,

I think the type of photography you are interested in would be better suited using a FF camera.

This of course does not mean that you can't use your current setup with the very good lenses you've acquired.

I have been in this stage about a year ago and decided to go with glass first.

Should you decide to go the same route, you might wish to replace your EF-S 15-85 with the EF 24-70 MkII.

Then, you can rent/buy a 5DMkIII when you are ready.

This way, you don't lay out a large amount of cash (and a large learning curve, BOTH for the lens and the camera). On the other hand, you still have the whole range covered and you just replace a very good lens with an even better one.

In my personal situation, I am not averse on having a good part of the range (24-200) covered with a FF and a crop, possibly with the addition of the 10-22 (I am not sure that the EF16-35 MkII would buy me that much).


Gerry
Canon 5D MkIII/Canon 60D/Canon EF-S 18-200/Canon EF 24-70L USM II/Canon EF 70-200L 2.8 USM II/Canon EF 50 f1.8 II/Σ 8-16/ 430 EXII
OS: Linux Ubuntu/PostProcessing: Darktable/Image Processing: GIMP

  
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amfoto1
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Sep 08, 2013 10:29 |  #5

For your purposes, a 5DII would be fine. 5DIII too, though it would be a bit of overkill since none of your shooting is moving subjects, where the Mark III has distinct advantages.

I use both... a pair of 7D and a 5DII. They complement each other well.

I use the 7D for action, sports, general purpose... AI Servo stuff is where the 7D excels and is about 85 or 90% of my shooting. The crop cameras also allow for a smaller, more mobile kit of gear, will always be my choice for telephoto work, which is a lot of what I do.

I use the 5DII mostly for stationary subjects... much like what you say you shoot: landscapes/cityscapes/​seascapes, portraiture, some macro.... One Shot focus stuff, where the 5DII is more than adequate. FF is great for wide angle work, not so much for telephoto.

I'll use the 5DII any time I want capability to print larger... really large (say upwards of 16x24, which I've printed quite successfully from images with lesser crop cameras than 7D). I'll also use 5DII for extra high ISO shooting, it handles high ISO noise a bit better than 7D... gives me about one extra stop over 7D. If you shoot JPEGs in-camera, the 5DIII would be even better... two or more stops higher usable ISO. RAW isn't much different than the 5DII (but the implication is that it could be with proper post-processing/RAW conversion.)

Will you see the difference? If you don't often use high ISOs, primarily post images online and/or make 8x10 or 11x14 prints... no, not really. If you tend to crop heavily or make large prints, or use quite high ISOs (6400 or above, IMO), then you will find more obvious IQ differences.

If it will be your only camera and you have rare need to shoot moving subjects, 5DII can handle it (in a simplistic way) and will be fine. But if it will be your only camera and more of your higher priority shooting demands catching moving subjects, go straight to the 5DIII.

Plus, you have to consider your lenses...

Much of my gear and I come from a film background, so I already had a complete kit of "full frame capable" lenses when I got the 5DII about 4 years ago. Prior to that I had shot for some 5-6 years with crop only, but I only had one "crop only" lens (a third party ultrawide - Tokina 12-24 - that's actually partially usable on FF, up to 18 or 19mm wide). Prior to switching to DSLRs in 2004, I had been shooting film (so "FF") with Canon gear and had about a dozen lenses. I only had to sell off one and replace it (the ultrawide).

I have acquired a couple more "crop only" lenses since, because there are times I just want to minimize my gear load and only take the 7D and a few lenses. (Full frame lenses tend to be larger, heavier and more expensive).

Since they can use both EF "full frame" and EF-S/crop only lenses, you actually have a significantly larger choice of lenses with a crop camera... Though, to be fair, the Canon system FF lens selection is pretty darned good as well.

Half your lens kit wouldn't be usable on 5DII or III. You'd have to spend more to get another lens or two. And if you sell off the 7D and crop lenses to make the switch, you'll actually be dumping your two best lenses!

Have you handled a 24-70? Nice lens, but it's not small or light or unobtrusive, so I'm not sure I'd use mine for street photography. Also, I like it better for portraiture on a crop camera... It's just not my favorite portrait lens on FF, for me it comes up a bit short. For FF portraiture I tend to use 85/1.8 and 135/2... or 70-200/2.8 or 70-200/4 if I need a zoom.... Or, believe it or not, a 28-135mm is a great portrait zoom on FF (when a large aperture isn't necessary). I can't justify spending 3X or 4X as much for a 24-105, which certainly is better built and sealed but really doesn't improve much, if at all, on the 28-135's image quality, AF performance, IS, close focusing ability. OTOH, the 24-105 is often offered in kit with the FF cameras.

Tough decision... considering what you say you shoot a FF camera seems the ideal choice. 5DII would be a step down in some respects from your 7D... 5DIII less so, but at double the cost and doesn't really add a whole lot that's critical for what you say you shoot. And maybe you don't want the size, weight and cost of converting to FF from crop. And you've got a couple of the best crop only lenses already. And 7D is quite capable (Canon's new sensor in the 70D looks to have great IQ for a cropper, possibly higher usable ISO too, though it's a bit early to tell).


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII(x2), 7D(x2) & other cameras. 10-22mm, Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5 Macro, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS (x2), 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, studio strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link) - ZENFOLIO (external link)

  
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johneo
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Sep 08, 2013 13:50 |  #6

Having a 7D and a 5DMKII (2 actually) I love both cameras for what they do. I also notice I use the 7D much more.
I look at it ... my 5DMKII's are for my more serious photography ... portraits, weddings, events (non sports) and other things that I really want "THE" best shots for printing, etc.
My 7D is more for my "fun" photography ... shooting my Labs doing field work or running around the ring in show mode, shooting my grandkids playing or at the beach. If I am going out somewhere, anywhere, I tend to throw my 7D in the car. There are times when I wish I had the 5DMKII but then again, I have never been disappointed with shots from my 7d (except when I screw up! :oops: )
They are both different cameras with different uses. I say neither is better than the other overall but each has a different use.
Get rid of your 7D and get a 5DMKII and you will "WOW!!!" but soon you'll be thinking ... "I miss my 7D!"
As previously mentioned, the 5DMKII and 7D compliment each other well! Why not save up and own both?
WARNING - if you go with the 5DMKII, you WILL want more "L" lenses!!!


2 - 5DMKII's, Powershot SX 150 IS
7D, 5D, IR/5D, 10D, IR/10D, Elan 7NE
17-40 L, 24-70 L, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS, 100-400 L IS,
TS-E 24 f/3.5 L, 28-135 IS (x2), 50 f/1.8, 85 f/1.8 550EX, 430EX
40mm pancake

  
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TeamSpeed
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Sep 08, 2013 14:19 |  #7

Here is a side by side shot from a 7D and 5D2 using the 24-70L, where I only changed the focal length to frame identically.

https://photography-on-the.net …?p=16274392&pos​tcount=236

I like my 5D3 better than my 7D so far, but haven't started the NBA season yet.


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For Sale: 2x Teleconverter
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