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Thread started 12 Sep 2013 (Thursday) 10:10
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9/11 The falling man

 
flashpoint99
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Sep 12, 2013 10:10 |  #1

amazing read.

http://www.esquire.com …es/ESQ0903-SEP_FALLINGMAN (external link)




  
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rick_reno
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Sep 12, 2013 14:18 |  #2

That's a well written piece.




  
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mannetti21
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Sep 12, 2013 15:09 |  #3

I remember my first time seeing that photograph and experiencing an emotion I'd never felt before. Some strange combination of dread and awe. In regards to the circulation of that image, I had mixed emotions then, and still have them now. I never appreciated how frequently and casually the photo was published, whether it be on television, newsprint, or the internet. Just yesterday The History Channel aired home video of the jumpers which actually showed these individuals throughout the entire free fall and until just before impact, with the purpose of letting people hear the SOUND of the impact. I'm not easily offended, but that video was one of the most distasteful things I've ever seen on a mainstream news/TV station. This Falling Man image always leaves me with a sense of moral corruption. I understand trying to help people get a sense of what these people had to endure, but is there anything that is off-limits?


And then there are statements like these below.

"Some of them are shirtless; their shoes fly off as they flail and fall; they look confused, as though trying to swim down the side of a mountain.
"

"There is something almost rebellious in the man's posture, as though once faced with the inevitability of death, he decided to get on with it; as though he were a missile, a spear, bent on attaining his own end."

"They were all, obviously, not just killed when they landed, but destroyed..."


It's ashamed that people will use any means necessary to gain views/ratings/exposure for their own benefit. I know some will disagree, but I find these disrespectful to the dead and their families. I personally know 2 families who were collective victims in this event, and I can assure you they are less than comforted with these types of images and the corresponding literary portrayals.



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Phoenixkh
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Sep 12, 2013 16:00 |  #4

I agree with Rick... that was a very well written and thoughtful article in my view.

I guess my own paradigm influences how I look at situations like this. In 1965, there was a reported communist coup attempt in Indonesia. There is some doubt if an actual coup attempt by the communists actually took place but that is another matter. In the end, though no one knows the numbers for sure, as many as 2 million people were killed in reaction to this coup. There is almost no record of these deaths. Cameras of any kind, still or movie, were banned and if used, destroyed by those in power.

In addition to this, to this day, Indonesians have a sort of cultural amnesia. This from Indonesians who have written on the topic, in addition to my own contacts with Indonesians in my personal life. I lived there for a couple years in the early 70s. You don't get much conversation about the whole thing. It was an ugly time.

How does this relate to Falling Man and the other media documentation of that horrific day? I'd rather see the horror than have the horror suppressed. I do realize there is a fine line but I don't think the Falling Man photograph crosses it, at least, in my own opinion. It is a sad fact that people jumped from the North Tower. The reasons could be myriad but their jumping isn't a myth. I'd rather remember that horror so we do what we can to prevent such an attack against our country from ever occurring again. We can differ on what that means but I think most Americans will agree that preventing such an attack is a goal worth having.


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Kolor-Pikker
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Sep 12, 2013 16:11 |  #5

mannetti21 wrote in post #16291519 (external link)
I remember my first time seeing that photograph and experiencing an emotion I'd never felt before. Some strange combination of dread and awe. In regards to the circulation of that image, I had mixed emotions then, and still have them now. I never appreciated how frequently and casually the photo was published, whether it be on television, newsprint, or the internet. Just yesterday The History Channel aired home video of the jumpers which actually showed these individuals throughout the entire free fall and until just before impact, with the purpose of letting people hear the SOUND of the impact. I'm not easily offended, but that video was one of the most distasteful things I've ever seen on a mainstream news/TV station. This Falling Man image always leaves me with a sense of moral corruption. I understand trying to help people get a sense of what these people had to endure, but is there anything that is off-limits?


And then there are statements like these below.

"Some of them are shirtless; their shoes fly off as they flail and fall; they look confused, as though trying to swim down the side of a mountain.
"

"There is something almost rebellious in the man's posture, as though once faced with the inevitability of death, he decided to get on with it; as though he were a missile, a spear, bent on attaining his own end."

"They were all, obviously, not just killed when they landed, but destroyed..."


It's ashamed that people will use any means necessary to gain views/ratings/exposure for their own benefit. I know some will disagree, but I find these disrespectful to the dead and their families. I personally know 2 families who were collective victims in this event, and I can assure you they are less than comforted with these types of images and the corresponding literary portrayals.

I agree, that's why I didn't read the article past a few paragraphs when I figured it was bait, and then scrolled down and holy sh--

Someone had way too much time on their hand... hands.


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flashpoint99
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Sep 12, 2013 16:43 as a reply to  @ Kolor-Pikker's post |  #6

You are certainly entitled to your opinion of the article even though you did not read it ,however I find the little vid clip at the bottom of your post flaunting that point a bit unnessesary especially considering the subject.




  
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Kolor-Pikker
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Sep 12, 2013 17:49 |  #7

flashpoint99 wrote in post #16291748 (external link)
You are certainly entitled to your opinion of the article even though you did not read it ,however I find the little vid clip at the bottom of your post flaunting that point a bit unnessesary especially considering the subject.

Fine, fine, but I grow tired of all the politically correct quacking on this board.

That said, it's not that I didn't try to read the article, but it's clearly there to generate views and not because the author had something to say. Americans still show re-runs of reels showing things like school shootings that happened some time somewhere, like it's news, when elsewhere in the world these are monthly happenings that don't especially surprise anyone.

It's gotten to the point where America finds things to complain about regarding other counties because it doesn't have any of it's own problems, and happily gobbles up any new thing that can be turned into sensationalist journalism to be repeated ad-infinitum on TV or other media.


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tonylong
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Sep 12, 2013 18:18 |  #8

You know, it's hard to respond to this subject objectively!

I remember waking up on the morning of 9/11, and sitting down to watch my cable TV news, and sitting transfixed as the morning's events unfolded. I was watching the "live feed" -- it was after the first plane hit the first tower and before the second plane hit. At the time, nobody "put together" things, it was "evidently an accident", but as we listened to reports that the Pentagon had been hit it became obvious that we were under attack...

And then, at some point as the live video from the Trade Center played out, we saw these "objects" falling, and OMG, they were people jumping! One after another they flung themselves down to death, WOW.

Some time later a friend of mine forwarded me some pictures from that dark day. Friends of his had been there, and taken shots not just of the "jumpers", but of their "remains" -- unrecognizeable "lumps" of red "stuff"...boy, fortunately none of those shots got "public attention". In fact, after looking at them, I deleted them...

All that being said, what do I feel about the "public record", not just the "Jumping Man" photo, but other similar photos, about the video of the jumpers, all that?

I don't know what I "feel", but I figure that we owe it to ourselves to keep the history, not to keep putting it up in our "faces", but similar to some grisly photos of wars over the years, of children who have been napalmed, of prisoners being executed out on the street...some things we don't want to just turn away from and forget...


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mannetti21
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Sep 12, 2013 18:31 |  #9

Phoenixkh wrote in post #16291644 (external link)
I agree with Rick... that was a very well written and thoughtful article in my view.

I guess my own paradigm influences how I look at situations like this. In 1965, there was a reported communist coup attempt in Indonesia. There is some doubt if an actual coup attempt by the communists actually took place but that is another matter. In the end, though no one knows the numbers for sure, as many as 2 million people were killed in reaction to this coup. There is almost no record of these deaths. Cameras of any kind, still or movie, were banned and if used, destroyed by those in power.

In addition to this, to this day, Indonesians have a sort of cultural amnesia. This from Indonesians who have written on the topic, in addition to my own contacts with Indonesians in my personal life. I lived there for a couple years in the early 70s. You don't get much conversation about the whole thing. It was an ugly time.

How does this relate to Falling Man and the other media documentation of that horrific day? I'd rather see the horror than have the horror suppressed. I do realize there is a fine line but I don't think the Falling Man photograph crosses it, at least, in my own opinion. It is a sad fact that people jumped from the North Tower. The reasons could be myriad but their jumping isn't a myth. I'd rather remember that horror so we do what we can to prevent such an attack against our country from ever occurring again. We can differ on what that means but I think most Americans will agree that preventing such an attack is a goal worth having.

I completely agree with the fact that news and world events should be reported on, rather than brushed under the carpet. I don't mean to discount anybody's perspective, however, unlike the Indonesian event, there was absolutely no shortage of coverage for 9/11. For everybody who watched it live as things unfolded, they were well aware that people were leaping from the buildings. My question to the organizations and individuals who continuously circulate these types of dramatic images is this; Does anybody need a closeup shot of man/husband/father/son falling to his death to confirm the atrocities? There were an abundance of wide angle videos that got the point across quite effectively. I just think society, as a whole, needs to glance down at their moral compass a bit more often.

In the spirit of news reporting, what does this image add? A video with the horrific sound of a living human body slamming into the ground at 150mph...what does that add? Some of the the statements and verbiage in that article...what does it add?

In my opinion, it adds drama, ratings, and some network administrator's idea of "wow" factor that will set them apart from the next network's programming.



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onona
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Sep 12, 2013 18:39 |  #10

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #16291890 (external link)
Fine, fine, but I grow tired of all the politically correct quacking on this board.

That said, it's not that I didn't try to read the article, but it's clearly there to generate views and not because the author had something to say. Americans still show re-runs of reels showing things like school shootings that happened some time somewhere, like it's news, when elsewhere in the world these are monthly happenings that don't especially surprise anyone.

It's gotten to the point where America finds things to complain about regarding other counties because it doesn't have any of it's own problems, and happily gobbles up any new thing that can be turned into sensationalist journalism to be repeated ad-infinitum on TV or other media.

Huh? America has plenty of problems, it just likes to pretend it doesn't. Also, school shootings happen everywhere? I'd say America kinda stands alone in the developed world when it comes to kids regularly going on shooting sprees in their schools.

Anyway, I tend to agree with the post directly above my own here; 9/11 was obviously a horrendous event, but this need to sensationalise everything comes off as really distasteful. It's like this constant need to shove their tragedy in your face to force a reaction and sympathy. People are sympathetic already; we don't need photos of people plummeting to their deaths to feel something.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Sep 12, 2013 18:46 |  #11

I can't explain in words now how I felt on that day and the weeks that followed, nor how I felt weeks later when I discovered that I lost a friend, and how close i came to losing relatives.

I can tell you this, that as far back in my mind is this is most of the time I truly appreciate and feel I need reminders of the emotions pain horror from that time.
Sorry if our need for this catharsis is boring to some. I suggest you leave us to it and move on.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Sep 12, 2013 18:50 |  #12

Wow, amazingly I started typing this before the post above mine had been posted. its a startling coincidence that my post looks like a reply to ononas'

Just fyi


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mannetti21
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Sep 12, 2013 19:08 |  #13

Just to clarify, I can understand the need to reminisce and mourn, and I'm sensitive to the fact that it may be a never-ending need for many people. It just seems like every anniversary I see some video or picture in the news that pushes the envelope further and further, and I wonder where it will stop. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I simply find it unnecessary and emotionally disturbing to be "wow'ed" year after year with media that seems to be more gruesome than the previous.

Regardless, I truly didn't mean to ignite any arguments. I suppose I was doing a bit of venting after watching that horrendous video yesterday.



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tonylong
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Sep 12, 2013 19:18 |  #14

mannetti21 wrote in post #16292044 (external link)
Just to clarify, I can understand the need to reminisce and mourn, and I'm sensitive to the fact that it may be a never-ending need for many people. It just seems like every anniversary I see some video or picture in the news that pushes the envelope further and further, and I wonder where it will stop. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I simply find it unnecessary and emotionally disturbing to be "wow'ed" year after year with media that seems to be more gruesome than the previous.

Regardless, I truly didn't mean to ignite any arguments. I suppose I was doing a bit of venting after watching that horrendous video yesterday.

Hmm, I didn't see the video you're referring to, and in fact don't have a habit of tuning into the "anniversary" stuff...?


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Phoenixkh
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Sep 12, 2013 20:16 |  #15

Mannetti21,

I also understand your point of view. I was responding to the original photograph when it was published. I agree that sensationalism does occur in our country from a variety of sources for a variety of reasons.

I would also be disturbed by the video as you describe it. I haven't seen it but it was referenced in the linked article or one of the follow-up articles linked from the first site. The sound of bodies hitting the ground would be problematic for me. As I said earlier, I do think there is a line here. When one of us considers that line to be crossed will most likely vary from person to person depending on our own personal paradigms.


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9/11 The falling man
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