Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 12 Sep 2013 (Thursday) 10:10
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

9/11 The falling man

 
flashpoint99
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
411 posts
Likes: 8
Joined Dec 2012
     
Sep 12, 2013 22:13 |  #16

I also agree that it is unnecessary to show a video where the sound of a person hitting the ground is heard. I do believe however that this photo is a haunting example of the horror of that day and it is important to see. I don't see it as sensationalism or exploitation of the victim. Just my opinion. In case you'd like here more of this story and maybe get a better understanding of what the author was trying to convey there is a documentary that shadows this article on YouTube called The Falling Man. I found it very interesting an gives a lot of in site on the photo that the article leaves out. I guess my question to all of you is, If you were there in New York the morning of Sept 11th and had your camera with you, would you have shot pictures of the people jumping or would you have kept your camera in
its bag?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
tonylong
...winded
Avatar
54,657 posts
Gallery: 60 photos
Likes: 544
Joined Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
     
Sep 12, 2013 22:24 |  #17

flashpoint99 wrote in post #16292486 (external link)
I also agree that it is unnecessary to show a video where the sound of a person hitting the ground is heard. I do believe however that this photo is a haunting example of the horror of that day and it is important to see. I don't see it as sensationalism or exploitation of the victim. Just my opinion. In case you'd like here more of this story and maybe get a better understanding of what the author was trying to convey there is a documentary that shadows this article on YouTube called The Falling Man. I found it very interesting an gives a lot of in site on the photo that the article leaves out. I guess my question to all of you is, If you were there in New York the morning of Sept 11th and had your camera with you, would you have shot pictures of the people jumping or would you have kept your camera in its bag?

The answers to this would be a total "mix"!!


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
banquetbear
Goldmember
Avatar
1,598 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 146
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
     
Sep 12, 2013 23:22 |  #18

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #16291890 (external link)
Fine, fine, but I grow tired of all the politically correct quacking on this board.

...there wasn't any "politically correct quacking" in this thread, and as political discussion is banned on these boards I'm not sure where you are seeing all the quacking. And as you didn't even bother to read the story I'm not sure how you think your commentary on the story is accurate.

For me the most haunting images of the day were the images of people in the windows. (external link) It was about 0130 in the morning over here when I found out about it here in NZ: I'd just logged into my computer and found that I couldn't access any of the news sites. I followed along on a couple of forums I was on until I thought to turn the TV on and watch the news. I remember waking up my brother and he stared at me disbelievingly: like I had made the story up. The images from the day are still incredible for me to go back and look at: and in today's environment where digital photography is the norm I still have to remind myself that most of the iconic images from the day were shot on film.


www.bigmark.co.nzexternal link

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Shake ­ N ­ Vac
Senior Member
520 posts
Likes: 93
Joined Sep 2012
Location: UK
     
Sep 13, 2013 00:50 |  #19

flashpoint99 wrote in post #16292486 (external link)
I guess my question to all of you is, If you were there in New York the morning of Sept 11th and had your camera with you, would you have shot pictures of the people jumping or would you have kept your camera in
its bag?

I can't even imagine the horror of being there that day so it's difficult to say. I may have been so horrified by events I would not have even remembered I had a camera. On the other hand it may be the events of that day were so shocking and so unexpected the full impact would not hit until later and I may have been able to casually take some photos simply because shock was numbing me to the horror of it all.

I think without being in that situation is probably impossible to gauge what your response would have been.


Canon 6D / Canon 70-200 IS ii / Sigma 100 Macro f2.8 / 50mm f1.8
www.sm-wedding-photography.co.uk (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
onona
Senior Member
Avatar
511 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Aug 2012
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
     
Sep 13, 2013 03:40 |  #20

flashpoint99 wrote in post #16292486 (external link)
If you were there in New York the morning of Sept 11th and had your camera with you, would you have shot pictures of the people jumping or would you have kept your camera in
its bag?

Absolutely no way would I take photos of people jumping to their deaths. It's not even something I have to think about - just, no.


Leigh
I shoot concerts and stuff. (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
36,997 posts
Gallery: 111 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 5828
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
     
Sep 13, 2013 04:08 |  #21

onona wrote in post #16291979 (external link)
Huh? America has plenty of problems, it just likes to pretend it doesn't. Also, school shootings happen everywhere? I'd say America kinda stands alone in the developed world when it comes to kids regularly going on shooting sprees in their schools.

Anyway, I tend to agree with the post directly above my own here; 9/11 was obviously a horrendous event, but this need to sensationalise everything comes off as really distasteful. It's like this constant need to shove their tragedy in your face to force a reaction and sympathy. People are sympathetic already; we don't need photos of people plummeting to their deaths to feel something.

Kids go on shooting sprees because the media sensationalizes it, and individuals that feel they have nothing to live for and want to be known and are suicidal, whatever the reason, knows taking out other individuals will give them the attention, they crave, no matter the outcome and impacts to others.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: 2x Teleconverter
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
xhack
Goldmember
Avatar
1,283 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Jul 2007
Location: Edinburgh, Lothian
     
Sep 13, 2013 05:44 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #22

There's a racist cynicism in the old foreign desk adage that, in any disaster scenario, 1 Brit = 2 Canadians = 4 Americans = 8 Germans = 16 Lebanese = 32 Indians = 64 Africans. It's a cliché because there's a grain of truth in it.

The other side of this coin is that it is somehow acceptable to show death and mutilation on-screen provided the people involved are not of your nationality.

It is natural that Americans claim 'ownership' of 9/11 and deem it appropriate to pass judgements of taste on issues like the jumpers. We do the same in the UK on 7/7, as do the Spaniards on the M-11 2004 train bombings. But the fact is that all three atrocities have an international dimension - 12.4% of those who died in 9/11 were foreign nationals; 21.1% in the London bombings, and a whopping 25.7 of those in Madrid.

The people who jumped were an integral part of the story, demonstrating like nothing else the sheer horror and terror of their predicament.

I do understand the sensitivities of those related to those victims - and ALL the victims - but you cannot air-brush history. Those who are squeamish are fully entitled to look away; I believe images of the jumpers is the most powerful condemnation of those who perpetrated this vile atrocity.


~ Wallace
Gear List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
D ­ Thompson
Goldmember
Avatar
3,855 posts
Likes: 74
Joined Feb 2008
Location: Georgetown, Ky
     
Sep 13, 2013 09:30 |  #23

xhack wrote in post #16292987 (external link)
I believe images of the jumpers is the most powerful condemnation of those who perpetrated this vile atrocity.

Totally agree.


Dennis
Canon 5D 20D
I have not yet begun to procrastinate!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
nathancarter
Cream of the Crop
5,474 posts
Gallery: 32 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 594
Joined Dec 2010
     
Sep 13, 2013 09:46 |  #24

Perhaps I'm being cold, but I don't find the photos distasteful. They are journalism, documentary of the events, a record of the day's events that should not be swept under the rug for the sake of political correctness or avoiding hurt feelings. I'd like to think that if I were in a situation of that nature, I would have had the clarity of mind to take photos until all my memory cards were full.

I DID find it more than a little bit distasteful that the journalist(s) were so enraptured by the thought of identifying the subject, that they stalked the families to the point of harassment - even disrupting funerals for the sake of their quest.


http://www.avidchick.c​om (external link) for business stuff
http://www.facebook.co​m/VictorVoyeur (external link) for fun stuff

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
RTPVid
Goldmember
3,365 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Aug 2010
Location: MN
     
Sep 13, 2013 12:16 |  #25

xhack wrote in post #16292987 (external link)
...The people who jumped were an integral part of the story, demonstrating like nothing else the sheer horror and terror of their predicament.

I do understand the sensitivities of those related to those victims - and ALL the victims - but you cannot air-brush history. Those who are squeamish are fully entitled to look away; I believe images of the jumpers is the most powerful condemnation of those who perpetrated this vile atrocity.

D Thompson wrote in post #16293368 (external link)
Totally agree.

nathancarter wrote in post #16293418 (external link)
Perhaps I'm being cold, but I don't find the photos distasteful. They are journalism, documentary of the events, a record of the day's events that should not be swept under the rug for the sake of political correctness or avoiding hurt feelings....

+1. Maybe, even +10.


Tom

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
iadubber
Goldmember
1,449 posts
Likes: 19
Joined May 2009
Location: Dubuque, IA
     
Sep 13, 2013 12:25 |  #26

There is a very good documentary on Hulu called The Falling Man.

http://www.hulu.com/wa​tch/400148 (external link)


Buyer/Seller Feedback
Flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
BearSummer
Senior Member
Avatar
925 posts
Likes: 12
Joined Jul 2003
Location: South East UK
     
Sep 13, 2013 15:53 as a reply to  @ iadubber's post |  #27

"You can't handle the truth" - Colonel Nathan R. Jessep

Or another way of looking at it is that there is bad knowledge. Some things are fundamentally damaging to know, and once they are in your head you can't unsee them, rather like the hole of a missing tooth that your tongue keeps finding. The best you can do is try not to think about it. The question is, do you spread that knowledge, because people have a right to know or do you keep it to yourself to protect them from the damage.

With falling man we know that he either fell or chose to step into the void and that once he exits the building there is only one outcome. However the grisly finality of that outcome is unpleasant to think about and experiencing it through multiple senses makes it even more so. Freezing that moment whilst he is still falling is more than enough for most people as we can see from the reactions to that image. Having to listen to the impact, see the results or feel the concussion of their final act is more than most sane people would want to experience.

So we restrict what we show, so that people aren't exposed to the realities of existence as some of them are bad to have in your head.

Some time after 9/11 I was working for Reuters during the first gulf war. During the bombing campaign a bunker in Baghdad was targeted and destroyed. The following day the foreign news crews were rounded up and driven out there to the destroyed bunker. From the outside you could see it was covered in aerials and was probably a command and control centre.


Stop reading now if you are feeling sensitive.

and because it was safe the senior officers had their families stay there during the bombings. So the bunker was full of women and children that they carried out on stretchers covered in Iraqi flags. As the corpses were carried past the film crews the flags were removed, then replaced once they were loaded onto the backs of trucks. It took hours to recover the bodies and the crews were kept there filming until they were done. And then the footage was sent back to us for cataloging, never to be seen again most likely, just to take up space in the archives. But it must be catalogued, so you have to watch it, for hours....


There is bad knowledge that it is better not to have in your head. There are sounds you don't need to hear and sights that can go unseen, as for the other senses best to not even go there.

We in the west live a fairly sheltered existence where the news is sanitised and made as palatable as possible whilst still conveying what's going on. So it's even more shocking when we get shown something as graphic as falling man and our reactions, in many cases, say more about us than they do about the image.

BearSummer


Moderation is for people that can't handle excess.

Gear List.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Gomar
Senior Member
Avatar
527 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Sep 2010
Location: NYC
     
Sep 13, 2013 22:00 as a reply to  @ post 16292206 |  #28

Why is that any different than watching the Zapruder footage of JFK's brain getting blown off hundreds of times? Or Oswald getting shot?
Or the Challenger explosion(which was live)?
Or the Japanese footage of Koreans getting buried alive in WWII?
Or the Hiroshima and Nagasaki A-Bombs and the people's skin burned off?
The WWII camps footage and photos?
Or the napalm bombings in Viet Nam?

Too bad there was no photography when:
The Christian Crusaders killed everyone in Jerusalem; or when the Romans set people in the Coliseum to be eaten by lions; or the crucifixions;
Or people burned alive at the stake.
Vlad Tepic had lots of fun impaling people... no photos;
None of human sacrifice on Mayan pyramids either... or of English Druids burning people alive.
Oh, and ifcourse there are no photos or film footage of The Inquisiton.

In 500 years people wont have a connection to 9/11 just as we have none to The Inquisiton.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MikeFairbanks
Cream of the Crop
6,428 posts
Joined Jun 2009
     
Sep 16, 2013 15:23 |  #29

Violence: it's what the weak-minded use often and the intelligent use as a last resort.


Thank you. bw!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ChunkyDA
Goldmember
Avatar
3,706 posts
Gallery: 17 photos
Likes: 88
Joined Apr 2007
Location: Emerald Coast, FL
     
Sep 16, 2013 19:27 |  #30

A journalist captures what is in front of them, they continue to work. if they turn away, they stop being journalists and become gawkers.
Can you imagine if no one photographed the horrors of WWII? We would not believe it today.


Dave
Support Search and Rescue, Get Lost (external link)
Gear list and some feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

5,874 views & 0 likes for this thread
9/11 The falling man
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is dayuan99
828 guests, 223 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.