Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 15 Sep 2013 (Sunday) 23:21
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Improvement on Night Football

 
rob4bama
Member
132 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Sep 2012
     
Sep 15, 2013 23:21 |  #1

I know I'm posting this right above "Sports photography at night" and "Shooting High School Football Tips" but was wondering on how to improvement my image quality; not necessarily the composition (which need help also, I know).

I currently have a Canon 60d
120-300 Sigma f2.8
I shoot AF servo, center focus
Most of these shots are 1/640, f2.8, ISO6400.
Back-button focus
No Flash

I'd like more detail/better image quality in the faces. I can't use flash either. The facemasks are black and there are really harsh shadows.

This was taken during warm-ups around 6:15 pm. Here in NE Alabama, the sun goes down quick. To me, this looks ok.

IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5491/9763852795_aa91b149d2_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/90958327@N06/9​763852795/  (external link)
IMG_654710074 (external link) by Section Sports Pix (external link), on Flickr

But as the sun sets, this is what happens.

IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5327/9764773035_dcdc41b35d_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/90958327@N06/9​764773035/  (external link)
IMG_674310241 (external link) by Section Sports Pix (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3679/9764746763_37f5399641_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/90958327@N06/9​764746763/  (external link)
IMG_676910032 (external link) by Section Sports Pix (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3723/9764653244_399d160b0e_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/90958327@N06/9​764653244/  (external link)
IMG_677310263 (external link) by Section Sports Pix (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7424/9763112285_994419a7fb_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/90958327@N06/9​763112285/  (external link)
IMG_671510023 (external link) by Section Sports Pix (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2881/9762868891_17daea7bac_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/90958327@N06/9​762868891/  (external link)
IMG_671810221 (external link) by Section Sports Pix (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3730/9764018803_36c5069a46_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/90958327@N06/9​764018803/  (external link)
IMG_672010026 (external link) by Section Sports Pix (external link), on Flickr

Am I:
1. Making a big of nothing? It's night time and that's the way it is. Everything is fine.

2. That's the limit of my equipment and that's the best they will do considering the situation. A full frame camera could handle it.

3. I'm not processing them correctly.

4. My settings are wrong and that's why the shadows are so dark.

I would appreciate any comments. I'm a high school science teacher with a hobby of taking pictures of my students. This board is very helpful.



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
TheRookie
Member
101 posts
Joined Jul 2013
     
Sep 16, 2013 01:19 |  #2

These photos look fine to me. At night with helmets on there is nothing really you can do about the shadows. You might try going with 3200 or even 1600 ISO and a slightly slower shutter speed to achieve better image quality though. I live in northern AL also.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
Goldmember
Avatar
2,405 posts
Gallery: 28 photos
Likes: 858
Joined Aug 2013
Location: Houston, Texas
     
Sep 16, 2013 01:29 |  #3

IMO the only thing you can do is photo where there are better lights, aka not at a high school game. These photos are good for HS lighting, and it would be hard to get any better at night with the crappy lights they have.

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7448/9768760014_436c870e4d_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …100539812@N06/9​768760014/  (external link)
Vandy 13 Vandy Huddle (external link) by Jarvis Creative Studios (external link), on Flickr

This was taken during a night game at Williams Brice Stadium (home of the Carolina Gamecocks). I used a $100 lens. 1/500sec - f/5.6 - ISO 800. Black facemasks and there are no shadows on their faces. The lights make all the difference.

WEBSITE (external link)
flickr (external link)
Sony HX90V || Sony RX100V || Sony a6500 || Sony a9 || Sony E 10-18mm f/4 OSS || Sony FE 24-70 f/2.8 GM || Sony Sonnar T* FE 35mm f/2.8 ZA || Sony Sonnar T* FE 55mm f1.8 ZA || Sony FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS || Godox speedlights and strobes

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DC ­ Fan
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,881 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 50
Joined Oct 2005
     
Sep 16, 2013 01:59 |  #4

rob4bama wrote in post #16299727 (external link)
I know I'm posting this right above "Sports photography at night" and "Shooting High School Football Tips" but was wondering on how to improvement my image quality; not necessarily the composition (which need help also, I know).

I currently have a Canon 60d
120-300 Sigma f2.8
I shoot AF servo, center focus
Most of these shots are 1/640, f2.8, ISO6400.
Back-button focus
No Flash

I'd like more detail/better image quality in the faces. I can't use flash either. The facemasks are black and there are really harsh shadows.

This was taken during warm-ups around 6:15 pm. Here in NE Alabama, the sun goes down quick. To me, this looks ok.
Am I:
1. Making a big of nothing? It's night time and that's the way it is. Everything is fine.

2. That's the limit of my equipment and that's the best they will do considering the situation. A full frame camera could handle it.

3. I'm not processing them correctly.

4. My settings are wrong and that's why the shadows are so dark.

I would appreciate any comments. I'm a high school science teacher with a hobby of taking pictures of my students. This board is very helpful.

These are the factors: the heads of football players are deeply encased in helmets that also serve as visors. During the day, there's enough reflected light to serve as fill under the helmets. At night the helmets block that light which is not intense enough or at the correct angle to reliably illuminate faces.

PHOTOBUCKET EMBEDDING IS DISABLED BY THIS MEMBER.
Photobucket sends ads instead of embedding photos from their free galleries.
Click the link (if available) below to see the image in a gallery page.

http://i1174.photobuck​et.com …09bba0089_zpsd7​65e532.jpg (external link)


With helmet.

PHOTOBUCKET EMBEDDING IS DISABLED BY THIS MEMBER.
Photobucket sends ads instead of embedding photos from their free galleries.
Click the link (if available) below to see the image in a gallery page.

http://i1174.photobuck​et.com …09bba0119_zps86​c7da75.jpg (external link)


Without helmet.

With no flash, the only solution may be to shoot from a low kneeling or sitting position to look under the helmets, realizing that low position leaves a photographer vulnerable to rapidly approaching action.



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
Goldmember
Avatar
2,405 posts
Gallery: 28 photos
Likes: 858
Joined Aug 2013
Location: Houston, Texas
     
Sep 16, 2013 02:04 |  #5

DC Fan wrote in post #16299964 (external link)
With no flash, the only solution may be to shoot from a low kneeling or sitting position to look under the helmets, realizing that low position leaves a photographer vulnerable to rapidly approaching action.

But most shots look better from a kneeling position. Look at every college or pro football photographer. Most are on one knee. Most also get bulldozed quite a bit :lol:. They also have insurance for that though.


WEBSITE (external link)
flickr (external link)
Sony HX90V || Sony RX100V || Sony a6500 || Sony a9 || Sony E 10-18mm f/4 OSS || Sony FE 24-70 f/2.8 GM || Sony Sonnar T* FE 35mm f/2.8 ZA || Sony Sonnar T* FE 55mm f1.8 ZA || Sony FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS || Godox speedlights and strobes

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
John ­ Godwin
Member
150 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Nov 2006
     
Sep 16, 2013 02:50 |  #6

rob4bama wrote in post #16299727 (external link)
3. I'm not processing them correctly.

Deep shadows can be corrected in post processing.


Maxpreps profile (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
rob4bama
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
132 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Sep 2012
     
Sep 16, 2013 07:08 |  #7

Getting low makes sense. I'll try that next time. Thanks!




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
xchangx
Senior Member
507 posts
Joined May 2007
Location: Mobile, AL
     
Sep 16, 2013 08:45 |  #8

The trick is to overexpose some (or expose for the face). In my opinion, it is real important to get the faces, it's what generally draws someone into the photo.

However in some situations, you just can't get it. In your examples above, #1 & #2 underexposed.


Nikon D4s / 2x D3s / D3 / 17-35 2.8 / 70-200 2.8 / 600 f4
Freelance sports photographer for Getty Images Sports, Entertainment and News
Freelance sports photographer for Sports Illustrated
My Images with Getty (external link)
My Sportsshooter Page (external link)
My Website (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
burnet44
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,851 posts
Gallery: 10 photos
Likes: 4676
Joined Jan 2012
Location: Robinson, Texas
     
Sep 16, 2013 12:25 |  #9

Shoot low and overexpose then correct in pp


Canon 70D Gripped, Canon 1DII, 7D2 Canon gripped 70-200 2.8 ISM II, Canon 50 1.8, Sigma 17-50 2.8, Canon 400 5.6 on loan, Canon 1.4 TC, Canon 550 EX flash
C and C welcome, Brutality Encouraged, Help Always Welcome Editing OK
www.firstdownphotos.ph​otoreflect.com (external link)
Flicker Page http://www.flickr.com/​photos/72506283@N03/ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mrrikki
Senior Member
Avatar
909 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Nov 2010
Location: Bristol, UK
     
Sep 16, 2013 16:37 |  #10

Jarvis Creative Studios wrote in post #16299966 (external link)
But most shots look better from a kneeling position. Look at every college or pro football photographer. Most are on one knee. Most also get bulldozed quite a bit :lol:. They also have insurance for that though.

I am always low at rugby, never been taken out yet but has been very close! Had a ball smash into the front of my Sigma 70-200 a few times! Luckily my gear has pro insurance and I have £2 million liability insurance in case they damage me or my gear damages them! Lol


GEAR: Canon 7D Mark II, 7D & 6D Lenses: Canon 300 f2.8 L IS, 70-200 f2.8 L, 24-105 L, Canon 50mm f1.8 & Sigma 1.4x Converter.
Website www.rmtphotos.co.uk (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
Goldmember
Avatar
2,405 posts
Gallery: 28 photos
Likes: 858
Joined Aug 2013
Location: Houston, Texas
     
Sep 16, 2013 23:18 |  #11

mrrikki wrote in post #16301684 (external link)
I am always low at rugby, never been taken out yet but has been very close! Had a ball smash into the front of my Sigma 70-200 a few times! Luckily my gear has pro insurance and I have £2 million liability insurance in case they damage me or my gear damages them! Lol

That's a lot of money! You don't think that's a bit overkill? I ask that as a serious question since I know nothing about sports photography insurance.


WEBSITE (external link)
flickr (external link)
Sony HX90V || Sony RX100V || Sony a6500 || Sony a9 || Sony E 10-18mm f/4 OSS || Sony FE 24-70 f/2.8 GM || Sony Sonnar T* FE 35mm f/2.8 ZA || Sony Sonnar T* FE 55mm f1.8 ZA || Sony FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS || Godox speedlights and strobes

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mrrikki
Senior Member
Avatar
909 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Nov 2010
Location: Bristol, UK
     
Sep 17, 2013 01:01 |  #12

Jarvis Creative Studios wrote in post #16302664 (external link)
That's a lot of money! You don't think that's a bit overkill? I ask that as a serious question since I know nothing about sports photography insurance.

That is standard for the company I have my policy with.


GEAR: Canon 7D Mark II, 7D & 6D Lenses: Canon 300 f2.8 L IS, 70-200 f2.8 L, 24-105 L, Canon 50mm f1.8 & Sigma 1.4x Converter.
Website www.rmtphotos.co.uk (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
philwillmedia
Cream of the Crop
5,252 posts
Likes: 14
Joined Nov 2008
Location: "...just south of the 23rd Paralell..."
     
Sep 17, 2013 01:41 |  #13

mrrikki wrote in post #16301684 (external link)
...Luckily my gear has pro insurance and I have £2 million liability insurance in case they damage me or my gear damages them! Lol

Jarvis Creative Studios wrote in post #16302664 (external link)
That's a lot of money! You don't think that's a bit overkill? I ask that as a serious question since I know nothing about sports photography insurance.

Nup 2 Mill is very little.
In Australia, most events require a minimum of $10M public liability insurance.
It's not so much to cover the photographer if anything happens to him/her but to cover them in the event that the photog puts their gear on the ground and some dumb-ass who's not watching where they are going does something like trip over it and breaks an arm.


Regards, Phil
2013/14 CAMS Gold Accredited Photographer | 2010 & 2011 V8 Supercars Aust. Accredited Photographer | 2008, '09, '10 South Aus. Rally Photographer of the Year | Catch Fence Photos - 2009 Photo of the Year (external link)Finallist - 2014 NT Media Awards
"A bad day at the race track is better than a good day in the office" | www.freewebs.com/philw​illmedia (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mrrikki
Senior Member
Avatar
909 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Nov 2010
Location: Bristol, UK
     
Sep 17, 2013 15:11 |  #14

philwillmedia wrote in post #16302878 (external link)
Nup 2 Mill is very little.
In Australia, most events require a minimum of $10M public liability insurance.
It's not so much to cover the photographer if anything happens to him/her but to cover them in the event that the photog puts their gear on the ground and some dumb-ass who's not watching where they are going does something like trip over it and breaks an arm.

True, mine us 3.5 mil aus dollars, I must admit most venues don't ask o see my public liability insurance, I also have employers liability and gear insurance on the same policy.


GEAR: Canon 7D Mark II, 7D & 6D Lenses: Canon 300 f2.8 L IS, 70-200 f2.8 L, 24-105 L, Canon 50mm f1.8 & Sigma 1.4x Converter.
Website www.rmtphotos.co.uk (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Shooting
Goldmember
Avatar
1,552 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Jan 2008
     
Oct 07, 2013 10:46 |  #15

Jarvis Creative Studios wrote in post #16302664 (external link)
That's a lot of money! You don't think that's a bit overkill? I ask that as a serious question since I know nothing about sports photography insurance.

Or do what I do when or if you are too poor to afford insurance, be very careful with your equipment and wish or pray nothing happens. If you are on a field shooting why would you need insurance? You aren't going to be tearing anything up and if you have a shoulder bag with you and just shooting with a camera and a lens or two you don't need it. Just make sure you have some savings to replace any equipment that gets broken because every time you make an insurance claim the rates go up and some companies will cancel over 2 or 3 claims. I have been shooting for more than 20 years and not once ever needed it and never have been asked to show proof of it. I shoot weddings and I make sure I do not have extra lights, cords, stands, etc for anyone to trip over, just a camera and on camera flash for bouncing, that's it.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

4,391 views & 0 likes for this thread
Improvement on Night Football
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is CalebCorneloup
905 guests, 257 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.