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Thread started 11 Sep 2013 (Wednesday) 17:31
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Facebook using your pictures scenario

 
dkizzle
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Sep 11, 2013 17:31 |  #1

As many of your know FB has terms & conditions which give them all rights to the pictures you upload to their site. What if someone else uploads your picture to FB? Since they are not the owners of the picture they cannot grant any rights to FB. I guess in a case like this they will not be able to use their t&c.

What do you think?


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gnome ­ chompski
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Sep 12, 2013 13:25 |  #2

https://www.facebook.c​om/legal/terms (external link)

See 2.1. Looks like you are hosed. Makes me want to delete my pics


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dkizzle
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Sep 12, 2013 14:58 |  #3

This applies if the copyright holder is the one that uploaded images to FB. I am not talking about that, I am talking about when someone else uploads your pictures. For example if I take pictures from your website and upload them to my FB account. I dont have rights to your pictures, how can I transfer these rights to FB?


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gnome ­ chompski
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Sep 12, 2013 15:21 |  #4

oh, I see. no idea, sounds like one of those things that you cant really do much about unfortunately unless you are lawyered up.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Sep 16, 2013 05:55 |  #5

dkizzle wrote in post #16289163 (external link)
As many of your know FB has terms & conditions which give them all rights to the pictures you upload to their site.

No they haven't. They have updated them to give them sweepingly broad rights under a license but that is NOT "all rights".

dkizzle wrote in post #16291487 (external link)
....I am talking about when someone else uploads your pictures. For example if I take pictures from your website and upload them to my FB account. I dont have rights to your pictures, how can I transfer these rights to FB?

You can't - simple as that. Just as you can't steal a car and then legally transfer ownership to someone else, you can't infringe someone's copyright by taking their image and then grant rights in it to Facebook.


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dkizzle
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Sep 16, 2013 12:38 |  #6

Dan Marchant wrote in post #16300213 (external link)
No they haven't. They have updated them to give them sweepingly broad rights under a license but that is NOT "all rights".


You can't - simple as that. Just as you can't steal a car and then legally transfer ownership to someone else, you can't infringe someone's copyright by taking their image and then grant rights in it to Facebook.

^^ Hence my original question.


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boufa
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Sep 16, 2013 13:33 |  #7

dkizzle wrote in post #16301043 (external link)
^^ Hence my original question.

Hence his answer. Facebook would be able to do with it as the wish, since they came to the image legally... or at least within their T&C. Any copyright violation would have to be chased down through the person who initially stole it.

Case closed, good question, properly answered.

As for their t&c. I reality, I wonder if it has any real chance to stand up in court. First would they actually use your images, and second if you pressed it, would it stand up? Funny how people stack to t&c that are not negotiated, and assume they they apply absolutely. In many cases they do, but in many cases they don't.

Can they add to the t&c that they have the right to take your car and use it whenever a facebook executive is in town? Can they state that because you are a football fan that they can take your season tickets at their discretion? Sure, they can put that in, but it would be unenforceable.

Most changes to t&c come from one of 2 places... 1) change in business practice (sometimes) or 2) change resulting from the results of a court case, either thier own, or a similar enough situation, that they adjust their terms to protect themselves.

I recommend, un-bunching our collective panties over this.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Sep 17, 2013 07:50 as a reply to  @ boufa's post |  #8

Like most free to use online social media they are struggling to find ways to monetise the service. Showing adverts alongside content is one way to do that. However, even if we agree to them doing that in the ToS there are other legal issues that get in the way, such as image rights. It is illegal to use a person's likeness to advertise/promote something without their permission.

This is a problem for FB because Facebook users don't just post pictures of themselves. It is full of photos of freinds and family, many of whom aren't on facebook and haven't agreed to the ToS and as such haven't agreed to have their likeness used in advertising. If I posted a picture of my father as my profile pic then facebook would be infringing his rights if they used that in an advert.


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topdslrs
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Sep 17, 2013 14:58 as a reply to  @ Dan Marchant's post |  #9

Just delete them...

https://www.facebook.c​om/legal/terms (external link)

For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.


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MikeFairbanks
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Sep 22, 2013 12:48 |  #10

I deleted my facebook account, my Twitter account, my Vine account, and am about to delete my Instagram account.

And I won't be missing a thing.

Social media has no real purpose in my life, so I'm leaving it. Just email and a couple forums for me.


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topdslrs
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Sep 22, 2013 13:10 |  #11

MikeFairbanks wrote in post #16316453 (external link)
I deleted my facebook account, my Twitter account, my Vine account, and am about to delete my Instagram account.

And I won't be missing a thing.

Social media has no real purpose in my life, so I'm leaving it. Just email and a couple forums for me.

I only use it to connect with old high school friends, we then switched to meeting face to face. I am going to use to promote a business and professional services.


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Beaufort ­ 12
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Sep 22, 2013 17:35 as a reply to  @ topdslrs's post |  #12

I think it's not that easy for Facebook to steal images that were uploaded by people NOT AUTHORIZED to cede rights to Facebook.

If a model gets images after a portfolio/test shoot, she usually gets self-promotion rights. But she cannot give anybody else any rights. If she uploads the images to Facebook, Facebook cannot just say: "It is on our turf, we can do what we want with it".

Copyright is a right, and rights cannot be so easily forfeited. If you own a parking lot and put up a sign: "You park here, your car is mine" it's still not legal, and if you tow and sell a car parked there it is still theft.

If it were true that you could lose rights so easily, all Facebook has to do is: charge a Facebook worker to go to your website, steal the image, and upload it to Facebook. And there they have free images for campaigns.

If Facebook did that, there would be a storm of anger, and will damage Facebook's stock.

Still, I no longer upload my work to Facebook.

Facebook, as a marketing too, is worthless anyway, except if you are doing weddings or family portraits.

I will have models sign a paper where they promise not to upload to Facebook.

It's in the model's interest as well. Which model wants to show up in an ad on Facebook in a before/after picture or in an ad that reads: "If got herpes and more - and I've got the Ivy Creme".

Not sure if Facebook will be around in ten years anyway. It's basically a big collection of chatter without any noticeable content.


Another thougth: if you buy stolen goods, you are still liable for "acquiring stolen goods" and can go to jail. Facebook cannot just push the blame onto the thief. Particularly as it is well known that a large number of images uploaded to Facebook are stolen.


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drvnbysound
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Sep 23, 2013 06:43 |  #13

Dan Marchant wrote in post #16303285 (external link)
Like most free to use online social media they are struggling to find ways to monetise the service. Showing adverts alongside content is one way to do that. However, even if we agree to them doing that in the ToS there are other legal issues that get in the way, such as image rights. It is illegal to use a person's likeness to advertise/promote something without their permission.

This is a problem for FB because Facebook users don't just post pictures of themselves. It is full of photos of freinds and family, many of whom aren't on facebook and haven't agreed to the ToS and as such haven't agreed to have their likeness used in advertising. If I posted a picture of my father as my profile pic then facebook would be infringing his rights if they used that in an advert.

I've been using an ad blocker plugin... I haven't see those ads in months ;-)a It works on every site with generated ads.


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Beaufort ­ 12
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Sep 23, 2013 12:17 |  #14

drvnbysound wrote in post #16317970 (external link)
I've been using an ad blocker plugin... I haven't see those ads in months ;-)a It works on every site with generated ads.

What browser are you on?

Can you provide a link?


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dkizzle
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Sep 24, 2013 04:52 |  #15

Beaufort 12 wrote in post #16316944 (external link)
Not sure if Facebook will be around in ten years anyway. It's basically a big collection of chatter without any noticeable content.

I agree. I dont use it personally but it is still a good platform to exploit for business purposes. FB has a lot of active users and if you can deliver your message in front of them you can potentially get their interest.


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