Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 16 Sep 2013 (Monday) 20:35
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

70D AF Points

 
Keyan
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,319 posts
Gallery: 4 photos
Likes: 78
Joined Mar 2011
     
Sep 17, 2013 07:01 |  #16

The 70D does a very good job of tracking subjects once locked on. Sure, occasionally, it gets confused when your subject is close to another high contrast target in the same plane and is moving, but generally I have found it to be more than acceptable when tracking moving objects in AI Servo - which I generally use the all points starting from center mode. Once locked on to say a bird in flight it does a good job tracking as it moves through the frame.

So far it has done well with Kids in my lower light basement, birds, flowers in the breeze, and bubbles. I am content with the performance it has provided.


Cameras: 7D2, S100
Lenses: 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM, 18-135 STM, 24-70 f/4L IS USM, 50 f/1.4 USM,70-300L IS USM
Other Stuff: 430 EX II, Luma Labs Loop 3, CamRanger

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
kin2son
Goldmember
4,546 posts
Likes: 3
Joined May 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
     
Sep 17, 2013 07:08 |  #17
bannedPermanent ban

People actually use all points enabled with al servo to track whatever subject?

I use a 5D3 and not once have I use that...

Worst case I use single point with 8 points expansion + relevant AF case, call me insecure but I'll never trust the camera to do any tracking for me.

Maybe I'm just not using the tool right....:(


5D3 Gripped / 17-40L / Σ35 / 40 Pancake / Zeiss 50 MP / Σ85 / 100L Macro / 70-200 f2.8L II IS / 430 EX II / 580 EX II / Canon 2xIII TC / Kenko Ext. Tubes
EOS M / EF-M 18-55 / EF-M 22f2 / Ricoh GR aka Ultimate street camera :p
Flickr (external link) | My Images on Getty®‎ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Keyan
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,319 posts
Gallery: 4 photos
Likes: 78
Joined Mar 2011
     
Sep 17, 2013 07:12 |  #18

whothafunk wrote in post #16303184 (external link)
good thing 5DIII doesn't have far superior and more sophisticated AF.

Oh, wait a moment - yes it does!

give 70D a break, as it is a good performer and people who own 7D and 70D claim that the latter even has better AF performance - focus lock. all you do is bash the hell out of it.

I know, he keeps comparing the 70D to the 5D3, it's a totally different animal AF-wise, 61 point with 41 cross type, vs 19 all cross type, and the 5D3 can do 6.0fps at 22mpixels, the fact that it needs more AF power vs the 70D shouldn't be a surprise at all.

He likes the 7D, we get it. But please, the 70D is no slouch either, it is certainly a step up from the 60D and the newer rebels.


Cameras: 7D2, S100
Lenses: 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM, 18-135 STM, 24-70 f/4L IS USM, 50 f/1.4 USM,70-300L IS USM
Other Stuff: 430 EX II, Luma Labs Loop 3, CamRanger

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Keyan
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,319 posts
Gallery: 4 photos
Likes: 78
Joined Mar 2011
     
Sep 17, 2013 07:16 |  #19

kin2son wrote in post #16303223 (external link)
People actually use all points enabled with al servo to track whatever subject?

I use a 5D3 and not once have I use that...

Worst case I use single point with 8 points expansion + relevant AF case, call me insecure but I'll never trust the camera to do any tracking for me.

Maybe I'm just not using the tool right....:(

On the 70D in AI Servo and all points, it starts from a manually selected initial point (usually the center is where I have it..), and once locked on it will track the target through the frame as it moves. It's not like one-shot all points mode where the camera evaluates data coming in from every point and then picks what it likes the most. So far I have had good results with it.

The other option on the 70D is to use zone, such as the center zone, where it will evaluate focus from the 9 points in the middle, select a target, then track it in the zone. That works pretty well too from what I have tested, although I haven't used it as much as the All Points AI Servo mode.


Cameras: 7D2, S100
Lenses: 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM, 18-135 STM, 24-70 f/4L IS USM, 50 f/1.4 USM,70-300L IS USM
Other Stuff: 430 EX II, Luma Labs Loop 3, CamRanger

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
apersson850
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
12,093 posts
Gallery: 4 photos
Likes: 324
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Traryd, Sweden
     
Sep 17, 2013 08:20 as a reply to  @ Keyan's post |  #20

Zone AF will start with whatever it likes best, even in Servo AF.
It's likely that the 70D, just like the 1DX, uses Canon's AI Servo AF III algorithms, where the 7D uses the same as the 1D Mark IV, i.e. AI Servo AF II algorithms.
More clever algorithms may compensate for possible less computing power.


Anders

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
britt777
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
1,142 posts
Likes: 12
Joined Jan 2005
Location: Texas
     
Sep 17, 2013 08:21 |  #21

I feel like we were comparing cameras more than discussing af points, but thanks to those of you who shared your AF point tips.


Brittany
www.shutterprophotogra​phy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Shane ­ W
Senior Member
839 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Jan 2008
Location: Traverse City, Michigan
     
Sep 17, 2013 08:33 |  #22

britt777 wrote in post #16303370 (external link)
I feel like we were comparing cameras more than discussing af points, but thanks to those of you who shared your AF point tips.

Actual topic discussion always gets bogged down with "others" throwing in their $0.02... "Mine is better than yours".. etc... He shows up in all the 70D "discussions" to bring up the merits of anything other than the 70D. Who trolls around threads on products you have no true interest in, anyway?

I just upgraded to a 70D from a 40D and am still getting used to such a better AF system! I can say for sure that I have way more dead-on in focus shots of ALL subjects with the new 70D. Loving it!


Shane W

70D | Sig 10-20 | EF-S 15-85 | EF 70-200 2.8L | Sig 150-500 | Viv 28 2.5 | Sig 30 | Tak 50 1.4 [COLOR=blue]| EF 100 2.8 Macro | 1.4x TC | Nodal Ninja 3 | Tripods | Some Flashes | My flickr  (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
YashicaFX2
Goldmember
1,003 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Aug 2013
Location: A quiet place in the country.
     
Sep 17, 2013 10:53 |  #23
bannedPermanent ban

I don't believe that Mr. Hollis needs me to defend him, but several of you seem to have mis-focused your ire on him, because of his reaction to my post just above his. His comments were directed at my (erroneous) assumption that the 70D does NOT have an independent AF chip. He was making no reference to the relative merits of the 5DIII or the 70D; he was ragging my incorrect information. If you read a few posts further, you'll see that I retracted my initial assumption and replaced it with real information.

A bit of reading would have prevented you from flaming a guy who was just pointing out an error.


Dedicated APS-c shooter. Gripped 60D, 60 2.8, 10-22, 15-85, Σ70-200 OS and a big white something or other! Plus a 5D w/28-75.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
whothafunk
Member
156 posts
Joined Mar 2012
     
Sep 17, 2013 11:01 |  #24

the thing is, Hollis was sceptic about the 70D ever since it was announced and still going on the same bashing riot - it doesnt have a dedicated AF, no way it can be better.. even though people who own BOTH the 7D and 70D claim otherwise.


1DX :: 300mm 2.8L IS USM :: 70-200 f2.8L IS USM II :: 8-15L f4 USM fisheye :: 24-70 2.8L USM :: 1.4x III extender :: Tamron 15-30 f2.8 VC

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
YashicaFX2
Goldmember
1,003 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Aug 2013
Location: A quiet place in the country.
     
Sep 17, 2013 11:41 |  #25
bannedPermanent ban

whothafunk wrote in post #16303817 (external link)
the thing is, Hollis was sceptic about the 70D ever since it was announced and still going on the same bashing riot - it doesnt have a dedicated AF, no way it can be better.. even though people who own BOTH the 7D and 70D claim otherwise.

I am not defending his personality. He is a big boy; I am sure he can take care of himself. He got blasted in this thread for calling BS on my BS. He did nothing wrong in this thread. I only care because he was responding to MY mis-information.

I'd like you to back up your claim that the 70D does NOT have a dedicated AF chip. The absence of data is not data of absence. I believe the 70D does have a dedicated AF chip. It is pumping out nearly the same amount of data (20MP vs 22MP), at a faster rate (7fps, vs 6fps) than the 5DIII does. (5DIII: 132 mb/s, 70D: 140 mb/s) If the 5DIII is using an AF chip, it seems almost obvious that the 70D is using an AF chip. If the 70D doesn't NEED one, neither does the 5DIII. Canon is not in the business of adding un-necessary parts to their cameras. Back up your claim.

I do agree with you that Mr. Hollis is straight-forward and direct. I have been on the losing end of two debates with him here on POTN. I have no quarrel with a man who is right, and knows it. I was wrong. He was right. I learned something. That is just fine with me.


Dedicated APS-c shooter. Gripped 60D, 60 2.8, 10-22, 15-85, Σ70-200 OS and a big white something or other! Plus a 5D w/28-75.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
whothafunk
Member
156 posts
Joined Mar 2012
     
Sep 17, 2013 11:50 |  #26

YashicaFX2 wrote in post #16303900 (external link)
I'd like you to back up your claim that the 70D does NOT have a dedicated AF chip. The absence of data is not data of absence. I believe the 70D does have a dedicated AF chip. ... Back up your claim.

i am not the who claims that. it's Mr. Hollis. i was just quoting his skepticism and bashing.


1DX :: 300mm 2.8L IS USM :: 70-200 f2.8L IS USM II :: 8-15L f4 USM fisheye :: 24-70 2.8L USM :: 1.4x III extender :: Tamron 15-30 f2.8 VC

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
YashicaFX2
Goldmember
1,003 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Aug 2013
Location: A quiet place in the country.
     
Sep 17, 2013 11:55 |  #27
bannedPermanent ban

I already suggested reading before commenting. Perhaps if you re-read Mr. Hollis' post, you will find that he made no reference at all to the 70D. I am done. Please, lets allow some comments pertinent to the OP's purpose.


Dedicated APS-c shooter. Gripped 60D, 60 2.8, 10-22, 15-85, Σ70-200 OS and a big white something or other! Plus a 5D w/28-75.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
whothafunk
Member
156 posts
Joined Mar 2012
     
Sep 17, 2013 12:05 |  #28

i cannot help if you dont know the background story and if you cannot connect the dots. hollis and a few others (f.e. Keyan) know what im talking about, so lets leave it at that.


1DX :: 300mm 2.8L IS USM :: 70-200 f2.8L IS USM II :: 8-15L f4 USM fisheye :: 24-70 2.8L USM :: 1.4x III extender :: Tamron 15-30 f2.8 VC

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
amfoto1
Cream of the Crop
10,251 posts
Likes: 84
Joined Aug 2007
Location: San Jose, California
     
Sep 17, 2013 12:25 |  #29

Your best bet will always be to pre-select a single AF point and work to keep that on target. If you can do that, you'll eliminate chances that the camera will choose point of focus incorrectly. If shooting fast, you may not have time to change the selected point, might have to stick with center one only. If that ends up making images overly centered, try shooting a little more loosely (zoom out slightly) to allow some room to crop in post-processing.

Zone Focus is probably your second best choice most of the time. It can be better than Single Point when you have trouble keeping AF points right on the subject, but works best when there are a lot of distracting objects behind or around or in front of your subject. For example, it can work pretty well focusing on a bird in flight against a plain sky, but might not work as well for a bird flying through trees.

All Points leaves a lot up to the camera to decide. You might have good luck with it in some situations, but not in others. I rarely use it on any Canon... just don't like to leave it up to luck that the camera will focus where I want it to.

70D doesn't have the 7D's Spot Focus (smaller AF point for higher precision, but a little slower focusing) or Expansion Points (similar to Zone Focus).

All 19 AF points on both 7D and 70D are the more sensitive "cross type", but (like nearly all Canon cameras) the center one is further enhanced when used with f2.8 or faster lenses.

There are a number of fine tuning adjustments you can make to the AF system, nicely grouped together in the menu under Custom Function II, Autofocus. The most important of these might be Cf.N II - 1, Tracking Sensitivity. First inclination might be to dial this up... but that would be a mistake. This doesn't actually change the speed of focusing or the camera's tracking capabilities. Instead it sets how quickly the camera jumps to another target, such as when an obstruction temporarily passes between you and the subject. Most people benefit from turning this down a notch or two, at least until they are more familiar with the camera (or better at avoiding obstacles with Back Button Focusing, see below). You might find you can turn this adjustment back up, after some practice with the camera and settling into, becoming accustomed to some of the other AF methods you'll be using.

C.Fn II - 2, Acceleration/Decelerat​ion Tracking is new on 70D, not available on 7D. It is most likely useful with subjects that change speed and/or direction (which C.Fn II - 1 set to "slower" might make more difficult). Experiment with it and moving subjects. Essentially, C.Fn II - 1 and C.Fn II - 2 divide one of the 7D's C.Fn into two separate C.Fn's on 70D.

C.Fn II - 3, First Image Priority - I'd probably set to Focus Priority, since images that miss focus are of little use to me, even if it slows down shooting a little. I'm not sure, but this might also be useful for "trap focus" techniques.

C.Fn II - 4, 2nd Image Priority - Probably should be read as "2nd and all subsequent images in a burst". Again, I'd probably set it to Focus Priority, since I can live with slightly slower burst speeds, if it allows for more accurate focus. C.Fn II - 3 and C.Fn II - 4 are another example where 70D has two separate custom fucnions that were combined in a single C.Fn on 7D. I'm glad to see Canon doing this.

Most of the other Autofocus related C.Fn's are more minor tweaks, in my opinion. Except possibly for C.Fn II - 9, Orientation Linked AF Point Selection. I experimented with this on my 7Ds and found it seemed to slow thing a little, so I turned it off. I'll be interest to see if it works better on 70D. It's a neat idea, that you can have different AF points selected depending upon how the camera is oriented. If you experiment with it, it's important to rememeber that there are three orientations to set up: horizontal/lanscape camera orientation, vertical/portrait orienatation with the grip at the top, and vertical/portrait orientation with the grip at the bottom. You have to be sure to set up all three, or in the heat of shooting you'll somtimes find yourself wondering what the hell just happened (don't ask me how I know :rolleyes:). Oh, and you also can set up different focus methods for different orientations, such as Zone for one and Single Point for another and All Points for the third orienatation.

C.Fn II - 11, AF Point Display During Focus I would likely leave set to the default (0) except maybe in special circumstances. This allows the "smart" focus screen to do its thing, displaying only the active AF point(s). I can't think of any time I'd want the camera to display all points, all the time (1). That sort of defeats one of the key abilities of the transmissive LCD focus screen. Two of the other arrangements may have some uses in certain situations... I'd have to study and experiment with (2) and (3). I can't image why I'd want to turn off all AF point indications (4), any more than I'd want them all displayed all the time.

C.Fn II - 12, VF Display Illumination I set to "enabled". This flashes red when AF starts, and in One Shot will flash red when focus is achieved and locked (but not in AI Servo, since AF never locks in that focus mode). Unlike cameras with the "dumb" focus screens, this flashes the entire display in red (all AF points that are showing and the grid, if you have it enabled). It doesn't flash only the one, active AF point. It might be a little distracting in some situations, but you can get used to it. I hardly notice it anymore.

I'd suggest don't mess with C.Fn II - 13, AF Microadjustment until you are sure some of your lenses are off and need it. Be sure to read the instructions carefully and search here on POTN for methods and tricks to MFA... It is the new, improved version on 70D (up to 40 lenses, two points of adjustments on zooms, and it's lens specific by serial number). You might never need it, unless you shoot big aperture lenses wide open a lot.

With moving subjects in particular, you may want to experiment with Back Button Focusing (external link). (Actually it can be used with all types of subjects, tho BBF is especially helpful in AI Servo, when tracking and photographing moving targets.) If you wish to set this up, you'll need to go into the menu, Custom Function III, Operation/Others and select Custom Controls. Then navigate to the shutter release button icon, and set it to Meter Start only (in other words, disable AF Start at this button). The camera will now only start AF when you press the AF On button with your thumb. Optionally, you can swap the functions of the AF On and * buttons. I do this because I prefer to use the larger, more prominent * button for focusing, and the AF On button for less frequently used AE Lock (that's normally assigned to the * button). It takes a little practice, but for most people BBF soon becomes second nature and many wonder why they would ever use anything else.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII(x2), 7D(x2) & other cameras. 10-22mm, Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5 Macro, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS (x2), 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, studio strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link) - ZENFOLIO (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lone ­ Rider
Goldmember
Avatar
1,349 posts
Joined Jun 2010
Location: Mount Isa, North West Qld
     
Sep 17, 2013 12:42 as a reply to  @ amfoto1's post |  #30

To summarise AF comparisons....

Cross-type focus points
5D Mark III: 41
70D: 19
7D: 19

Focus points
5D Mark III: 61
70D: 19
7D: 19


Trevor
_______________
Canon 5D3 24-70L 70-300 DO IS 18-55 Sigma 10-20 430EXII BACKUP: 550D

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

7,807 views & 0 likes for this thread
70D AF Points
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Ckort66
825 guests, 318 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.