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Thread started 02 Sep 2013 (Monday) 12:07
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Contemplating a switch from Canon to Leica...

 
airfrogusmc
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Sep 03, 2013 11:04 |  #61

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #16264081 (external link)
Gear pr0n, amirite? It's about as an everyday walk-around lens as the 85L is, maybe even less so. Leica has better lenses that are also 1/5th the price.

I will never own it. When I make the switch probably one lens in the 24 or 21mm range and one more in the 75-90 range. Maybe a new M or if it happens a new M-E and a used M9 or CCD sensor M-E. So I would have my MM, and two color bodes and 3 lenses and I'm happy.

My 5DII bodies will not fetch much but I think my 200 2L will bring about what I paid for it. The only Canon lens I will truly miss.

The 24L, 35L and 85L I will probably all take some hits on. Now if my 5DIIs will hold out for a couple more years and business remains strong then it just might all work out. Lotta ifs though. :lol:




  
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iamascientist
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Sep 03, 2013 11:41 |  #62

If the OP has the money to spend I say do it, sell everything and get an M9, thats what I would do if I wanted a leica as my digital solution. My digital solution is a 5D classic (I adapt nikkor and zuiko primes) that gets used a handful of times a year, I prefer film and cant justify owning more expensive digital gear. my main cameras are film cameras, an olympus xa that is in my pocket everywhere I go, an olympus om2 for more controlled/thought out 35mm shooting, and a mamiya c330 and minolta autocord for medium format.

If the OP is a bit hesitant to drop all that money on leica digital, I'd recommend a fixed lens rangefinder like the konica auto s2, or a FED rangefinder like the zorki 4 with a jupiter-8. Both can be had for under $100 and will let you get your feet wet, see if a rangefinder is really for you. I wouldn't want to spend 5k on a leica kit and realize in a month it was a bad decision.




  
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sacral
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Sep 04, 2013 09:15 |  #63

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16264186 (external link)
I will never own it. When I make the switch probably one lens in the 24 or 21mm range and one more in the 75-90 range. Maybe a new M or if it happens a new M-E and a used M9 or CCD sensor M-E. So I would have my MM, and two color bodes and 3 lenses and I'm happy.

My 5DII bodies will not fetch much but I think my 200 2L will bring about what I paid for it. The only Canon lens I will truly miss.

The 24L, 35L and 85L I will probably all take some hits on. Now if my 5DIIs will hold out for a couple more years and business remains strong then it just might all work out. Lotta ifs though. :lol:

I was thinking a Leica M and the summilux 50mm/1.4 as the starter. If I can get the funds...I've always liked the 50mm on the FF DSLRs, so I thought why not. Would the 35 be more appropriate? No idea really...I'm going to try to rent one from somewhere this coming weekend. We'll see...


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Gobeatty
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Sep 04, 2013 11:33 as a reply to  @ sacral's post |  #64

"Most people dislike manual focus because they only experience it on cameras not intended for it..."

+1.

I actually am bothered by the term 'Auto Focus'. It is the focus system the camera is primarily intended to be used with and it requires selection of focus point(s), setting of mode, focusing and recomposing (sometimes) and focusing on every shot (unless locked). This is hardly Auto to me. I find it quite stressful actually. An M is so direct, easy and foolproof provided the camera's RF is calibrated correctly.

And I view the digital bodies as having a shorter, for most, expected lifespan than the film versions. I wrote in an earlier post 5 years - I just picked a number. I did read of an M8 owner who cracked his back screen after 3 years and was told by Leica they no longer stocked the part and gave him the option to trade it plus 4,000+ pounds on a new camera. Even if the camera lasts longer than five years, it will likely be so surpassed that it would beg for replacement. My mentor has a first-gen or so pro Nikon that he paid 10K for and has used for 10 years. I suspect folks like him are a rare breed, especially on a forum such as this, that could live with a 12MP APS-C camera with dreadful noise performance (by later standards) all these years. This is why I don't have a Leica yet :-(. The lenses are forever. The bodies are likely subject to digital rot, losing much of their value when the next M comes out.


6D | 35 f2 | 50 1.8 | 85 1.8 | 28 - 135 f3.5 - 5.6 | 70-210 f4

  
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airfrogusmc
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Sep 04, 2013 12:55 |  #65

sacral wrote in post #16267087 (external link)
I was thinking a Leica M and the summilux 50mm/1.4 as the starter. If I can get the funds...I've always liked the 50mm on the FF DSLRs, so I thought why not. Would the 35 be more appropriate? No idea really...I'm going to try to rent one from somewhere this coming weekend. We'll see...

Sounds like a real plan to me. SOme people see better at a normal F/L and some at a wide. I prefer 35 but I know many that prefer 50 and s few that like even wider than 35. 28, 24 and even 21 but a 50 would be a good place to start. If you lived near me you check out my MM and my 35 lux. I would say, if you can, shoot some with both F/L on a rangefinder. If the 50 doesn't work out you wont loose money. Be prepared to wait for a new Leica M. I think the wait is about a year.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Sep 04, 2013 12:58 |  #66

Gobeatty wrote in post #16267392 (external link)
"Most people dislike manual focus because they only experience it on cameras not intended for it..."

+1.

I actually am bothered by the term 'Auto Focus'. It is the focus system the camera is primarily intended to be used with and it requires selection of focus point(s), setting of mode, focusing and recomposing (sometimes) and focusing on every shot (unless locked). This is hardly Auto to me. I find it quite stressful actually. An M is so direct, easy and foolproof provided the camera's RF is calibrated correctly.

And I view the digital bodies as having a shorter, for most, expected lifespan than the film versions. I wrote in an earlier post 5 years - I just picked a number. I did read of an M8 owner who cracked his back screen after 3 years and was told by Leica they no longer stocked the part and gave him the option to trade it plus 4,000+ pounds on a new camera. Even if the camera lasts longer than five years, it will likely be so surpassed that it would beg for replacement. My mentor has a first-gen or so pro Nikon that he paid 10K for and has used for 10 years. I suspect folks like him are a rare breed, especially on a forum such as this, that could live with a 12MP APS-C camera with dreadful noise performance (by later standards) all these years. This is why I don't have a Leica yet :-(. The lenses are forever. The bodies are likely subject to digital rot, losing much of their value when the next M comes out.


I plan on having my MM for a very long time. For me nothing to really upgrade to concerning that camera. Megapixels are fine, sharpness is amazing and unless it dies I'm in it for a very long time.




  
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Gobeatty
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Sep 04, 2013 13:06 |  #67

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16267618 (external link)
I plan on having my MM for a very long time. For me nothing to really upgrade to concerning that camera. Megapixels are fine, sharpness is amazing and unless it dies I'm in it for a very long time.

Sounds like a good plan. I suspect those that can buy, use, and be happy for a long time do best in this as a hobby unless upgrading is the hobby and funds are not so much an issue. I paid what felt like a fortune for my FE2 with 50 1.4, but used it for 15 years. I am trying the same thing - plan to be happy with 6D (great IQ, AF good enough, small/lightish) for a long time. I know it will be surpassed in 18 months if not sooner but so what. It has the 5D3 IQ I couldn't afford until now and in absolute terms, for me, is very good enough. I couldn't live long term with any of the current APS-C cameras, but that is just me.


6D | 35 f2 | 50 1.8 | 85 1.8 | 28 - 135 f3.5 - 5.6 | 70-210 f4

  
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airfrogusmc
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Sep 04, 2013 13:12 |  #68

Gobeatty wrote in post #16267631 (external link)
Sounds like a good plan. I suspect those that can buy, use, and be happy for a long time do best in this as a hobby unless upgrading is the hobby and funds are not so much an issue. I paid what felt like a fortune for my FE2 with 50 1.4, but used it for 15 years. I am trying the same thing - plan to be happy with 6D (great IQ, AF good enough, small/lightish) for a long time. I know it will be surpassed in 18 months if not sooner but so what. It has the 5D3 IQ I couldn't afford until now and in absolute terms, for me, is very good enough. I couldn't live long term with any of the current APS-C cameras, but that is just me.

Film? I still have 3 of my old Canon F-1s. One newer model and two old F-1s. The newest I bought in 1982. I had my Hasselblad 500 C/Ms for a couple of decades. Never any reason to upgrade either system. Nothing better was out there to upgrade to. I do plan on picking up two color Leica M digital bodies in the next couple of years and dumping all my Canon DSLRs. I plan on using Leica MM for all my personal work and some commercial assignments that require B&W and the color bodies for all of my commercial work.




  
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Gobeatty
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Sep 04, 2013 13:41 as a reply to  @ airfrogusmc's post |  #69

Yep - film. Those bodies, like the early Leica Ms, were upgraded over time in ways that didn't make much difference. With digital, the body is our film, which recoups the cost over time (good thing) but can be a bugaboo when new, better bodies with better IQ come along. Just look at the M9 vs M240 IQ debates going on, and the current Ms are so-so in low light (assuming low noise is a priority, which it may or may not be for you - some like the noise). I like clean low light images so when the next M body comes out with 3 stops better noise performance (hypothetical, I don't have any Leica insider information), I would be tempted. I may get back to making money with cameras, in which case it becomes a tax write off, but for now it isn't.


6D | 35 f2 | 50 1.8 | 85 1.8 | 28 - 135 f3.5 - 5.6 | 70-210 f4

  
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airfrogusmc
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Sep 04, 2013 15:59 |  #70

Yeah thats why when I bought my MM I saw how good the low light performance, the dynamic range and the IQ was and at the time the 240 was only a rumor and I have been shooting B&W pretty much exclusively for my personal work the last few years so for me it was a no brainer. With the performance of the MM I really won't need an upgrade. I'll keep it till it dies and they quite fixing it.




  
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sacral
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Oct 08, 2013 21:39 |  #71

Update:

Visited DC for a surgical conference, went to the Leica store. Played with the M and the summilux 50/1.4 as WELL as the noctilux/0.95.

HOLY S#!T. The rangefinder style of shooting is...sensual, to say the least. And the noctilux. Well...you know. Shooting with a lens more sensitive to light than the human eye was incredible.

Going to make the switch once I finish a few more jobs.

Anyone in the market for some canon gear?? ;-)a


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auto-clicker
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Oct 08, 2013 21:49 as a reply to  @ post 16262183 |  #72

I had thought about it and went the Fujifilm X- Pro 1 route instead, try one because that's how i chose mine.
X Pro 1 +14,35,18-55 ...waiting on the 23 and then 57 coming soon plus X 100s and X100...<all that weighs less than a 5D3 with a 24-70 :eek:

My DSLRs i sue for just sporting events but when i had tried the 18-55 indoors i was very surprised at the images and have been thinking of trying their 55-200 but i know if i did...i would certainly dump all my Canon gear i just got!




  
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DocFrankenstein
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Oct 09, 2013 00:07 |  #73

sacral wrote in post #16261378 (external link)
Has anyone ever given any thought to a system changeup like this?? I can get so much camera for the money with the Nikon and Canon systems, but the quality of the Leica lenses along with the portability and non-assuming nature of the camera itself make that system seem more appealing. Granted, the learning curve will be steep...I've shot with a rangefinder ONCE in my entire life...

I have a leica and I shoot rangefinders. I would be careful dumping one setup and getting a digital leica for many reasons. It's a fun camera to have, but for many reasons it's the wrong choice for 99% of the population.

I don't want to say the lens quality is a myth, but a canon rebel focuses faster and more accurately in 10 points of the viewfinder instead of just one.

Any lens quality sharpness differences will be negated by focus inaccuracies. Airfrog, like everybody else ends up using it at f/8 or f/11 using DOF marking on the lens. He can be using pentax k1000 with the same results and you'll never see the difference.

Portability and the non-assuming nature of Leica is a myth. They're quite big cameras. They're not light. A digital leica is closer to a canon 5D when you compare it with a MILC

They used to be small and portable compared to a rolleiflex or a hasselblad, but they are not small cameras. Smaller - sure. But not by much.

Sony is coming out with a FF camera of sorts. It's a very viable alternative.

In terms of lenses, zeiss is often objectively better. Contrast is better. Bokeh is better. Many people prefer a planar over a summicron.

That's my experience in terms of objective side.

On the subjective side, they're great tools and it's a different photographic experience with a nicely made machine. I'm shooting with one, and most of the mythology is false and the experience is underwhelming. It's just a camera.


National Sarcasm Society. Like we need your support.

  
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DocFrankenstein
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Oct 09, 2013 00:20 |  #74

sacral wrote in post #16356994 (external link)
Update:

Visited DC for a surgical conference, went to the Leica store.

Ah never mind. It's the perfect camera. You should get it. Too bad you're not a dentist. ;)

And for full disclosure, my leica is film, not digital... so I can only draw from that experience.

As a photographer, Leica is one of the things you need to try before you find peace with yourself. I am happy to have spent a bunch on mine because I got to experience it myself and to decide which parts are fanatical BS mythology and which parts are real.


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gfspencer
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Oct 11, 2013 07:44 as a reply to  @ DocFrankenstein's post |  #75

My wife and I just got back from a trip to Germany. I carried a 6D with a 24-105 lens and a Leica M8 with a 35mm Summicron lens. Both cameras were always with me. They were in the same bag so they were both at hand. I took 720 pictures with the Canon and 35 pictures with the Leica. The Canon was just easier to use. I'll never get rid of my Leica but my Canons are more versatile so they get used more.


Canon 50D - Canon 7DII - Canon 6D - 16-35mm f/2.8L - 24-105mm f/4[COLOR="red"]L IS - 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS - 50mm f/1.2L - 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS - 100-400mm II f/4.5-5.6L IS - Extender EF 2x

  
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