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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 12 Oct 2013 (Saturday) 01:34
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Opinions for upgrading my body

 
jhartley
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Oct 12, 2013 01:34 |  #1

I've had a T3 for a couple of years now and it's lacking over all for what I am currently needing. The fact that it's 12MP doesn't really bother me too much since I rarely print larger than 8x10. The auto focus and the higher ISO performance and how many shots per second are my biggest issues. A majority of the time I am shooting pictures at the kids football games which until this year has always been during the day. This year they started playing some night games and in 2 more years my son will be in high school and will mainly have night games.
Lens wise I have just the kit 18-55mm and the Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III both are rather low end lenses. I do plan on replacing the 75-300 with something better once I get a better body. I can make another thread if needed about where to go with lenses later or mention it here.
So right now I am saving money plus in May I'll be getting roughly $1,500 to spend from stocks that I can sell then if not more. Currently I was debating between the D60, D70 D7 (D7 mkII?) or the D6. The thing I don't care for with the D7 is the compact flash memory cards since all I currently have is SD cards and plan to keep the T3 to use in addition to what I pick up. If the D7 mkII does come out and it does have SD cards and it's priced well that could be a good option. But that is assuming on my part it will be what myself and others are expecting of this unannounced camera.
Between the D60 and D70 I do feel I could benefit from the video upgrades but I don't shoot video often and the T3 could always be used for video and I have been happy with the results from the T3 for video that I have done. I know the D60 can be bought for relatively cheap now and would leave me with more money for new glass to get the lens I would like to have. The D70s WiFi feature is also a cool idea and feel I could probably make use of that.
The D6 is tempting for the boost in high ISO performance over the crop bodies but Seems that the Crops are a better option for fast moving sports. At the same time I would lose some reach on Lenses with that too. Looking at my pictures I have taken the past couple of years I range from 150-250mm which converts to about 240-400mm with the crop factored in on most of my pictures.
Aside from taking pictures at the kids football games I also take pictures inside for birthdays and Christmas which the T3 works fine for the most part. I am about to but either the nifty fifty or the 40mm pancake in the next few weeks.


70D 18-135 STM, 10-22mm, 24mm STM, 40mm STM, 55-250 STM, 270EX II

  
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PH68
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Oct 12, 2013 03:21 |  #2

You could get the new small 100D.
It's 18MP and got some very good reviews.

I have a 60D and found it's good enough for my needs.
If I were to replace it I'd probably go FF and get a 6D.


Fuji XE1 ~ XF18 ~ XF27 ~ XF60 ~ XC50-230

  
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Trapstar
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Oct 12, 2013 04:24 |  #3

I have been shooting with a 7D up until recently, i just purchased a 1d mark iii. i have been more than happy with the 7D. i just wanted a bigger sensor. but a FF might not be a bad idea. 6D is always a good choice. a 7D is also an amazing camera. i wish i didn't have to sell mine. but you can buy a 7D for around 800$. mine with the canon battery grip is up for sale for 900. half the price of a 6D and an over all amazing camera. if you are shooting sports you might want a cropped sensor rather than a full frame.


Canon 1D Mark III - 50mm 1.4/ 70-200 f/4 L
Canon 7D w/grip for sale, Message me!
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John ­ from ­ PA
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Oct 12, 2013 07:48 |  #4

If you live in the States, check the Canon Loyalty Program for very attractive prices. Right now there are plenty of 60D's available as well as other models. After the holidays you likely will start to see the 70D commonly become available.




  
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John ­ from ­ PA
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Oct 12, 2013 07:54 |  #5

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=948785 for Canon Loyalty Program.




  
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sharraleigh
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Oct 12, 2013 07:56 |  #6

First off, the Ds are at the back of the numbers ;)

I was using the T2i and found the exact same limiting factors you did. Almost bought the 6d, but decided that I wouldn't be happy with the 4.5fps especially shooting dogs in action. Waited for the 7d2 to be announced, but when that didn't happen, I bought the 70d instead.

The fps and AF are much better than the T2i, but sad to say, there isn't much difference in noise at higher ISOs. You could get away with higher iso because of the 20MPs, so you can crop more and still have not too noisy pics.

If you wait for the 7d2 which MIGHT or might NOT be better in the high ISO dept, then you should, but it's really anyone's guess when it will be announced. Ask yourself what's more important to you, more fps or better low light performance. I don't know how good the AF is on the 6d, but if you use only the centre point the it should be ok.


Canon 70D, 550D + Tamron 24-70 f2.8 VC, 28mm f1.8, 85mm f1.8, 50mm f1.8
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jhartley
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Oct 12, 2013 08:51 |  #7

Looks tempting, but I'm planning on keeping the T3. I figure either the kids could start learning with it or the wife will use it.

Would I be able to do the loyalty program and send them a Canon point and shoot?


70D 18-135 STM, 10-22mm, 24mm STM, 40mm STM, 55-250 STM, 270EX II

  
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jhartley
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Oct 12, 2013 09:05 |  #8

sharraleigh wrote in post #16364982 (external link)
First off, the Ds are at the back of the numbers ;)

My mistake, I tend to be a little dyslexic when I am not fully awake.

I was using the T2i and found the exact same limiting factors you did. Almost bought the 6d, but decided that I wouldn't be happy with the 4.5fps especially shooting dogs in action. Waited for the 7d2 to be announced, but when that didn't happen, I bought the 70d instead.

The fps and AF are much better than the T2i, but sad to say, there isn't much difference in noise at higher ISOs. You could get away with higher iso because of the 20MPs, so you can crop more and still have not too noisy pics.

If you wait for the 7d2 which MIGHT or might NOT be better in the high ISO dept, then you should, but it's really anyone's guess when it will be announced. Ask yourself what's more important to you, more fps or better low light performance. I don't know how good the AF is on the 6d, but if you use only the centre point the it should be ok.

The low fps on the 6D is really my biggest issue with it. But from what I understand is you can shoot more shots before the buffer gets filled. With my T3 I'll get like 3-4 shots and I have to wait what feels like forever for the buffer to clear out before I can take another shot. Which has caused me to miss a number of what could of been great shots because the camera wasn't ready.
I know the T2i is a step up in high ISO from my T3 so it might be enough in the D70 that would be a noticeable improvement from where I am at now.
Some of the time I just use the center point on my T3 but that also seems to cause me to have a higher number of shots out of focus. If I let the camera pick the focus point I have more that are in focus. Yet I always get what I am wanting to shoot in the center of the frame.


70D 18-135 STM, 10-22mm, 24mm STM, 40mm STM, 55-250 STM, 270EX II

  
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John ­ from ­ PA
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Oct 12, 2013 09:20 |  #9

Would I be able to do the loyalty program and send them a Canon point and shoot?

Yes! Some people have even acquired cameras for $5 from Goodwill or the Salvation Army stores. eBay as well can be a source for something like a Powershot.




  
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jhartley
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Oct 12, 2013 10:36 |  #10

John from PA wrote in post #16365088 (external link)
Yes! Some people have even acquired cameras for $5 from Goodwill or the Salvation Army stores. eBay as well can be a source for something like a Powershot.

Thank you for the info. Do you happen to know if you can get Lenses from the Loyalty program or are you only able to get them with the bodies? From what it sounds like their stock changes and so does the prices on what they have available when you call them.


70D 18-135 STM, 10-22mm, 24mm STM, 40mm STM, 55-250 STM, 270EX II

  
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artyH
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Oct 12, 2013 10:40 |  #11

I have the 60D and AF is much faster than my T2i or the old XS that I no longer have. High ISO noise performance is similar for the T2i and 60D, but you can select ISO in 1/3 stop increments on the newer bodies.
I like my T2i, but the 60D or 70D would be much better for sports. The 60D is a bargain right now, and you could get some glass and a new body for the price of the 70D. If you never shoot video, you would be paying a lot for a few features that may or may not matter to you.
I would get a 6D for low light photography, or a 60D or 70D for sports. I prefer the size and weight of the 60D to the 7D, but there is no doubt about the AF superiority of the 7D. I recommend actually holding the cameras and trying them out at a store before making a decision.




  
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Sibil
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Oct 12, 2013 10:58 as a reply to  @ artyH's post |  #12

In comparing bodies, the FPS often comes up as a consideration for shooting sports. Both my bodies have machine-gun level of FPS, but I seldom find myself using it. I snap 2-3 frames at most. When I was shooting sports with my 40D, the FPS of it never bothered me. IMHO, the low-light and high ISO performance, as well as the focusing speed and tracking should have higher priority for sports, rather than FPS. YMMV.....




  
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Sibil
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Oct 12, 2013 11:16 as a reply to  @ Sibil's post |  #13

Of course what I said depends on the sports. For example in track and field, a higher FPS body would be very useful.




  
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amfoto1
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Oct 12, 2013 11:17 |  #14

First of all, I would not recommend someone wanting to shoot sports jump to a full frame model. In order to get the same telephoto "reach" with FF, you will need to spend a lot more on lenses and your kit will be larger and heavier. The 6D is sort of like a FF 60D, with a less capable AF system and without the articulated LCD of the crop model. Plus for 8x10s you don't need FF at all. In your position, I wouldn't even consider a FF model.

I do not know the T3's high ISO performance and you don't indicate what ISOs you have run into trouble with... But you can reliably use any of the 18MP models (T3i, T4i, T5i, 60D, 7D) to ISO 1600 and even 3200 with minimal work. Especially if you are rarely printing larger than 8x10. The 70D has a new sensor and might offer even nicer high ISO performance... Canon says so, but I'm still in wait and see mode, personally.

You can use even higher ISOs, by applying noise reduction in post-processing. There have been significant advances in softwares the past few years, allowing for higher ISO shots. Look for Teamspeed's posts here on POTN about using 7D at very high ISOs for examples and recommendations. The same techniques should apply to any of the 18MP cameras (don't know about the new sensor in the 70D yet).

7D is the most advanced of the current models... largest buffer for fast shooting, sophisticated and customizeable AF system. It's also got the highest durability rating of any of the Canon APS-C cameras and relatively good sealing against dust and moisture.

The 70D comes close and has some features the 7D doesn't. But 70D is more of an upgrade from 60D, with some 7D features added. In particular, the AF system of 70D is very similar to 7D's, but slightly downgraded. And it doesn't offer the 7D's build level of sealing and durability or 100% viewfinder. But it does offer an articulated LCD screen, which the 7D doesn't. 70D also has a newer, more sophisticated form of focus Micro Adjust than 7D (60D doesn't have MA at all).

The 60D's 9-point AF system is perfectly capable of action photography, too. It's a solid step up from your T3's AF. In fact, the T4i and T5i models have essentially the same AF system as the 60D, so should be able to keep up, too.

High frame rate is a crutch you want to avoid using too much, unless you have a ton of memory cards and enjoy sitting in front of your computer for days on end editing your photos. Learn to time your shots well, rather than relying too heavily on "machine gun" shooting techniques. 7D has the highest frame rate, but 60d and 70D are pretty respectible, too.

The way I most often use the 8 FPS my pair of 7Ds are capable of is with short, 2 or 3 image bursts. Usually this is with running subjects where a "freeze frame" of the wrong part of a stride can look odd or awkward, and it's near impossible to time. This is sort of like shooting a gun using a "double tap" or "triple tap" technique. You end up trashing a lot more images this way, but increase the odds of stopping the action at a point in the person's or animal's stride that looks "right".

Besides, 7D will actually slow down the frame rate at times, to allow time for metering or AF, or with certain settings. To get a 7D to fairly consistently shoot at it's max frame rate, you have to use M (manual) exposure mode and keep some other features turned off. Plus there really isn't all that big difference between 5, 6 and 8 FPS.

I would encourage you to spend as little as possible on the camera body.... you also sorely need to upgrade lenses and those will ultimately offer more improvement in image quality, as well as support faster, more accurate AF, better sealing and durability.

You should look at the Canon 70-200s, especially. This will be a huge improvement over the 75-300 you have. Some will tell you that you don't need IS for sports photography, but after using IS lenses for 12 years I can tell you it's a very valuable feature on telephoto lenses, especially when they are used on crop cameras. If a 70-200/2.8 IS Mark II is too expensive, look for a used Mark I or consider a 70-200/4 IS. They are both excellent lenses, too. They can be used very effectively with a quality 1.4X, too, if you need a bit more reach.

Besides a "workhorse" 70-200, it's your choice what other lenses to get. I use a 24-70/2.8 and a couple 28-135 IS. The Canon 17-55/2.8 IS is another excellent lens. An inexpensive choice is the Tamron 17-50/2.8 non-VC.... except it doesn't have USM style focus (which Tamron calls USD), so is rather slow focusing. The Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS is in between in price and has HSM, which is the Siggy version of USM, to give AF speed and accuracy similar to the Canon.

There are numerous other short zooms, but most are f3.5-5.6 variable aperture, so are going to be less useful in low light situations. Instead you might consider some faster prime lenses, such as the Canon 28/1.8, 35/2 IS and 50/1.4 (all with USM) or the Sigma 30/1.4 HSM (tho it's said to not be so great focusing in low light). A prime lens can give you one or two stops more light than any zoom offers, yet can cost less and is smaller/lighter, too boot. Of course, a prime isn't as convenient as a zoom in some respects.

Note that with very wide and ultrawide lenses you may not need a large aperture lens because you can handhold them steady at slower shutter speeds. Often an f4 or f3.5-5.6 will do fine, in a 10-xx or 12-xx zoom.

You also might want a longer telephoto for sports. I use the Canon 300/4 IS a lot, both with and without a 1.4X teleconverter. It's easily handheld and a nice focal length on a crop camera for field sports. There is also the Canon 400/5.6, but it might be a bit long some of the time and doesn't have IS, though it's reasonably compact and handholdable. There are also a number of zooms in the 100-400, 120-400, etc. range.

Anyway, I recommend you keep as much of your budget as possible to put toward lenses. I'd much rather get a 50D, 60D or T4i body and have a good selection of quality lenses to use upon it, than the latest and greatest camera body with cheaper lenses. The lenses make more difference than the body, in your images and even can help with AF speed and accuracy.


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5DII, 7DII(x2), 7D(x2) & other cameras. 10-22mm, Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5 Macro, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS (x2), 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, studio strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link) - ZENFOLIO (external link)

  
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sharraleigh
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Oct 12, 2013 20:55 |  #15

jhartley wrote in post #16365069 (external link)
The low fps on the 6D is really my biggest issue with it. But from what I understand is you can shoot more shots before the buffer gets filled. With my T3 I'll get like 3-4 shots and I have to wait what feels like forever for the buffer to clear out before I can take another shot. Which has caused me to miss a number of what could of been great shots because the camera wasn't ready.
I know the T2i is a step up in high ISO from my T3 so it might be enough in the D70 that would be a noticeable improvement from where I am at now.
Some of the time I just use the center point on my T3 but that also seems to cause me to have a higher number of shots out of focus. If I let the camera pick the focus point I have more that are in focus. Yet I always get what I am wanting to shoot in the center of the frame.

Yes, the buffer thing is annoying. I used to have to shoot JPEGs instead of in RAW on my T2i because of it. The 70d's buffer does much, much better in that respect. I have never actually filled up the buffer, come to think of it.

Another thing about the 6d was that if i switched to FF that would mean none of my lenses would be long enough anymore... And I'd have to go get some new ones.

I think you need to decide if having more reach and better AF + fps is more important to you than better low light performance. For me, the former was much more important, so I went with the 70d. The price dopped really quickly anyway. I got it for only about $1000 body only in Early Sept.

I've been able to get decent looking pics at ISO3200 with only minimal noise reduction post proessing on LR.


Canon 70D, 550D + Tamron 24-70 f2.8 VC, 28mm f1.8, 85mm f1.8, 50mm f1.8
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Opinions for upgrading my body
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