Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 25 Oct 2013 (Friday) 11:56
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Low Light Focusing - Expectations ant Tips Requested

 
AJSJones
Goldmember
Avatar
2,647 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 92
Joined Dec 2001
Location: California
     
Oct 25, 2013 18:09 |  #16

Gobeatty wrote in post #16398332 (external link)
... The camera focuses fast and indicates confirmation of focus, but many shots are soft or completely out of focus.

That descriptions suggests that no part of the image is in focus - rather than the sharp plane of focus being somewhere other than where you wanted it (or where the AF said it should have been). This usually indicates motion blur - if there's no motion blur (you or the subject) then there should be at least some plane that is in focus. Wide open fast lens = very little DoF and most of the image OOF anyway, so the plane may be hard to spot or not on any obvious objects in the scene...


My picture galleries (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Gobeatty
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
513 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Aug 2013
     
Oct 25, 2013 18:44 |  #17

AJSJones wrote in post #16399259 (external link)
That descriptions suggests that no part of the image is in focus - rather than the sharp plane of focus being somewhere other than where you wanted it (or where the AF said it should have been). This usually indicates motion blur - if there's no motion blur (you or the subject) then there should be at least some plane that is in focus. Wide open fast lens = very little DoF and most of the image OOF anyway, so the plane may be hard to spot or not on any obvious objects in the scene...

I hear what you are saying, but often there is nothing that near, front or back, to be in focus wide open. Not so easy to tell if always front or back focusing.


6D | 35 f2 | 50 1.8 | 85 1.8 | 28 - 135 f3.5 - 5.6 | 70-210 f4

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
philodelphi
Goldmember
Avatar
1,185 posts
Gallery: 40 photos
Likes: 562
Joined May 2008
Location: King of Prussia PA USA
     
Oct 25, 2013 18:51 |  #18

Gobeatty wrote in post #16399317 (external link)
I hear what you are saying, but often there is nothing that near, front or back, to be in focus wide open. Not so easy to tell if always front or back focusing.

This has happened to me as well, surprised me when it happened.


Sony DSC-RX100M2 α7R III / ILCE-7RM3 Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 IV | Voigtlander 65mm F2 Macro APO-Lanthar | Venus Optics Laowa 15mm f/4 Macro | Sony FE 24-240mm F3.5-6.3 OSS Sonnar T* FE 55mm F1.8 ZA FE 24mm f/1.4 GM | Samyang 35mm f/1.4 ED AS UMC | Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro Photo EF 135mm f/2L USM EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM | Sigma 100-400mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM | Tokina Firin 20mm f/2 FE MF | Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 Di III RXD

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
adas
Goldmember
Avatar
1,496 posts
Likes: 5
Joined Aug 2004
     
Oct 25, 2013 19:01 |  #19

How it performed on test chart? No point talking about real world unless the test chart is ok.


6D, 20D, G7X

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
flashpoint99
Senior Member
411 posts
Likes: 8
Joined Dec 2012
     
Oct 25, 2013 19:40 |  #20

As stated above you need to be using AI servo for sure....




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
philodelphi
Goldmember
Avatar
1,185 posts
Gallery: 40 photos
Likes: 562
Joined May 2008
Location: King of Prussia PA USA
     
Oct 25, 2013 20:17 |  #21

flashpoint99 wrote in post #16399408 (external link)
As stated above you need to be using AI servo for sure....

...except in low light and wide apertures.


Sony DSC-RX100M2 α7R III / ILCE-7RM3 Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 IV | Voigtlander 65mm F2 Macro APO-Lanthar | Venus Optics Laowa 15mm f/4 Macro | Sony FE 24-240mm F3.5-6.3 OSS Sonnar T* FE 55mm F1.8 ZA FE 24mm f/1.4 GM | Samyang 35mm f/1.4 ED AS UMC | Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro Photo EF 135mm f/2L USM EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM | Sigma 100-400mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM | Tokina Firin 20mm f/2 FE MF | Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 Di III RXD

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
36,985 posts
Gallery: 111 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 5823
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
     
Oct 25, 2013 21:23 |  #22

Why? I use AI Servo in exactly those conditions, only when light goes down to a level where I am at f2.8 ISO 3200 and 1/30th or less does AI servo start to become a bit untrustworthy. That is quite dark.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: 2x Teleconverter
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
bobbyz
Cream of the Crop
19,434 posts
Likes: 1614
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
     
Oct 25, 2013 21:26 |  #23

Gobeatty wrote in post #16399317 (external link)
I hear what you are saying, but often there is nothing that near, front or back, to be in focus wide open. Not so easy to tell if always front or back focusing.

Here is my example that I posted in another thread. OOF.

IMAGE: http://www.bobbyzphotography.com/img/s10/v101/p1761491272-5.jpg

Now good

IMAGE: http://www.bobbyzphotography.com/img/s10/v111/p1809812476-5.jpg

5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
thedcmule2
Goldmember
1,125 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Nov 2011
     
Oct 26, 2013 01:11 |  #24

OP: "2x the focal length as my minimum" - this is your problem. 2x focal length for shutter speed is a general rule to reduce camera shake when held by hand. It doesn't account for weather, wind, lighting fluctuations or subject movement. You need to be shooting minimum 1/160 or faster for the 35mm alone. You don't need AI servo, it has a difficult time in low light and is virtually useless if your shutter speed is too slow anyway...like what's the point of tracking a moving object if your shutter isn't closing fast enough to freeze motion? It's like telling a cop to chase a burglar but don't actually catch him...

Do this: one-shot, minimum f/2.0 or 2.2 and 1/160 shutter speed, then crank ISO as high as you need it (trust me the 6D can handle it). I started a thread on this exact issue with your exact settings and we all came to the conclusion that shooting wide open in low light with slow shutter and low ISO = asking for disaster. Crank the ISO up...noisier photos are better than out-of-focus photos. Noise can be fixed, focus cant.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
flashpoint99
Senior Member
411 posts
Likes: 8
Joined Dec 2012
     
Oct 26, 2013 01:24 |  #25

philodelphi wrote in post #16399469 (external link)
...except in low light and wide apertures.

Hmmmmm....I shoot every dance comp and recital in AI servo, low light,moving subject @ 2.8 and have an in focus keeper rate of around 90% .




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
thedcmule2
Goldmember
1,125 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Nov 2011
     
Oct 26, 2013 01:28 |  #26

Yeah but are you 10 feet within the dancers range? Are you shooting at 35mm? And 2.8 isn't really hard to miss focus with...1.2 and 1.4 is a different story




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
kin2son
Goldmember
4,546 posts
Likes: 3
Joined May 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
     
Oct 26, 2013 02:03 |  #27
bannedPermanent ban

thedcmule2 wrote in post #16399997 (external link)
Yeah but are you 10 feet within the dancers range? Are you shooting at 35mm? And 2.8 isn't really hard to miss focus with...1.2 and 1.4 is a different story

+1

f2.8 is hard to miss...


5D3 Gripped / 17-40L / Σ35 / 40 Pancake / Zeiss 50 MP / Σ85 / 100L Macro / 70-200 f2.8L II IS / 430 EX II / 580 EX II / Canon 2xIII TC / Kenko Ext. Tubes
EOS M / EF-M 18-55 / EF-M 22f2 / Ricoh GR aka Ultimate street camera :p
Flickr (external link) | My Images on Getty®‎ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PH68
Senior Member
599 posts
Joined Jun 2013
Location: England
     
Oct 26, 2013 04:46 |  #28

thedcmule2 wrote in post #16399970 (external link)
Crank the ISO up...noisier photos are better than out-of-focus photos. Noise can be fixed, focus cant.


My thoughts exactly.


Fuji XE1 ~ XF18 ~ XF27 ~ XF60 ~ XC50-230

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
bratkinson
Senior Member
643 posts
Likes: 4
Joined Dec 2011
Location: Western MA
     
Oct 26, 2013 05:53 |  #29

Without having sample pictures with EXIF attached, "we" (the internet community) can only make reasonable guesses at the problem.

As indicated by previous respondents, when shooting at or near wide open on fast lenses (f2.8 and wider), the depth of field can be surprisingly thin, especially when shooting from less than 10' from the subject with a medium telephoto. That can often be the cause of slighly-soft results.

Another common 'soft' error is incorrect focus point. Canons' AF system will typically choose the nearest 'subject' and focus on that. With thin DOF, even someones' shoulder angled toward the camera could become the focus point making the face soft. The key is to verify what the camera is 'locking in' on. And while on the subject of AF - AI-servo...absolutely, AI-servo. If it moves/breathes/flaps/w​aves in the breeze, AI-servo.

A too-slow shutter speed is the next potential culprit. For people as subjects, even if they are posed, 1/125 is about the slowest to reliably freeze their action...I've been surprised too many times thinking 1/60 was fast enough to stop motion. At 1/60th, expect a sharp head shot ratio of 1 in 4...or 5...or worse.

And, of course, camera instability can cause a slight blur. The general 'rule' for camera stability is 1/focal length or faster. That's generally true. But still, 1/125 or faster to freeze human subjects supercedes it in my mind, unless I'm shooting with my 135 and longer lenses. With IS, slight hand movement is corrected by the lens, but IS can't stop subject movement, unfortunately.

Lastly, the lens and camera might need MFA - Micro Focus Adjustment to get that last 'bit' of sharpness.

With my 5D3 and f2.8 and faster L glass, I routinely have to use ISO 6000 and faster to get decent results with no flash indoors. It's all about the exposure triangle and getting enough light to the sensor to get a decent exposure level.


"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." General George S Patton, Jr 1885-1945

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
philodelphi
Goldmember
Avatar
1,185 posts
Gallery: 40 photos
Likes: 562
Joined May 2008
Location: King of Prussia PA USA
     
Oct 26, 2013 07:00 |  #30

flashpoint99 wrote in post #16399992 (external link)
Hmmmmm....I shoot every dance comp and recital in AI servo, low light,moving subject @ 2.8 and have an in focus keeper rate of around 90% .

90% sounds about right


Sony DSC-RX100M2 α7R III / ILCE-7RM3 Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 IV | Voigtlander 65mm F2 Macro APO-Lanthar | Venus Optics Laowa 15mm f/4 Macro | Sony FE 24-240mm F3.5-6.3 OSS Sonnar T* FE 55mm F1.8 ZA FE 24mm f/1.4 GM | Samyang 35mm f/1.4 ED AS UMC | Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro Photo EF 135mm f/2L USM EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM | Sigma 100-400mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM | Tokina Firin 20mm f/2 FE MF | Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 Di III RXD

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

4,073 views & 0 likes for this thread
Low Light Focusing - Expectations ant Tips Requested
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is wooricoin
984 guests, 226 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.