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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 27 Feb 2012 (Monday) 13:01
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idsurfer
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Oct 29, 2013 07:57 |  #556

Here's another question. Do you think using a couple step up rings say from 58 to 72mm would cause any vignette in the 35-85mm focal length range? On the hoya vari nd of course.


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gonzogolf
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Oct 29, 2013 09:35 |  #557

eventsof1768 wrote in post #16407768 (external link)
how many stops do you guys rec?
i already have a 3 stop, was thinking a 5 or 6 stop ND to add to it

A lot depends on the lens you intend to use it with. A 5 stop on an F2 or below lens might come in handy. I have one and its nice to go fully wide open on the 135L for instance. But throwing it on my 24-105 and it turns daylight into dusk at ISO 100 fairly suddenly.




  
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bobbyz
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Oct 29, 2013 09:48 |  #558

fashionrider wrote in post #16406489 (external link)
i don't think it was compared to the 70-200, i think it was actually a really cheap lens... well the comparison that i saw. I would remember it is was the 70-200 f2.8 IS II because I have that lens too and I'd be pissed! hahaha. are they saying the bokeh on it isn't very good? :( :( :(

Hope not this test that I did:

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=961566


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fashionrider
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Oct 29, 2013 13:31 |  #559

idsurfer wrote in post #16407830 (external link)
Thanks fashionrider! I'm sold! I had the LCW but was not impressed with color cast and loss of contrast. Maybe mine was a dud. I think i will certainly try one of these through amazon. I found another review online putting the hoya up against the singh ray and it did quite well. Nice shots and thanks again.

Yeah I saw a review between hoya and singhray, the hoya held its ground. Some even recommend it as it has less color cast than the SR. :P enjoy! post your pics when you use the hoya!


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fashionrider
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Oct 29, 2013 13:34 |  #560

eventsof1768 wrote in post #16407768 (external link)
how many stops do you guys rec?
i already have a 3 stop, was thinking a 5 or 6 stop ND to add to it

As mentioned above, the lens has a lot to do with it. The ambient lighting does also. If you want to shoot at f1.4, then you'll need a darker ND. If the ambient lighting is very bright, you'll need a darker ND. If you want to shoot at f1.4 AND in bright ambient lighting, then you'll need a very dark ND. In the photos I posted, I shot at f1.4 at the beach at noon. 3 stops definitely wouldn't have been enough. I think I was pushing more towards 7-8 stops of light.


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fashionrider
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Oct 29, 2013 13:37 |  #561

idsurfer wrote in post #16407870 (external link)
Here's another question. Do you think using a couple step up rings say from 58 to 72mm would cause any vignette in the 35-85mm focal length range? On the hoya vari nd of course.

I don't see too much of a problem when shooting at 85mm. but if you're using several step-up rings + ND filter, that sounds like it becomes a very thick stack you're adding to your lens. There might be some vignette at 35mm, but all depends how thick the stack is.


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killertofu
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Oct 29, 2013 15:34 |  #562

fashionrider wrote in post #16407441 (external link)
Here ya go. First 2 beach photos are shot with Sigma 85mm at f1.4 during a bright sunny day (she was in the shade of a tree). Without the ND filter, shooting at f1.4 resulted in a blinking 1/8000 shutter speed (which means at 1/8000, photo's still overexposed). Not sure how dark I set the ND filter, but it was fairly dark. Could barely see out the viewfinder, but thank god the 5D3 can focus really good. Used an alienbee b1600 + 22" kacey beauty dish, shutter slowed to 1/160 with Hoya Vari-ND filter.

Black dress photo was shot at f2, same lens, Hoya Vari-ND filter, same lighting.

When I zoom in 1:1 to the eyes, they are tack sharp. and yes, I know the WB is off between photos :P

IMAGE NOT FOUND
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IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR


IMAGE NOT FOUND
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WOW... these are ridiculously good.




  
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idsurfer
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Oct 29, 2013 21:27 |  #563

fashionrider wrote in post #16408645 (external link)
I don't see too much of a problem when shooting at 85mm. but if you're using several step-up rings + ND filter, that sounds like it becomes a very thick stack you're adding to your lens. There might be some vignette at 35mm, but all depends how thick the stack is.

Well, my 85 1.8 has the 58mm thread. So it will have a step up to 72 via two rings. Hopefully it will not vignette at that FL. My Siggy 35 1.4 will only have to step up from 67to a 72mm thread. I went with the 72 because I really feel as if I will more than likely be acquiring another 135L next summer. I would like to be able to use the filter with all lenses. I guess I'll see next week!


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bumpintheroad
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Oct 30, 2013 14:20 |  #564

fashionrider wrote in post #16405924 (external link)
in my opinion, the solid ND filters will definitely give you better results than a variable, the only hassle is switching it out often and the cost. Technically one SND is cheap, but if you want to cover the entire range of a variable, all those SNDs will add up to be a lot more than 1 VND. If you don't mind the cost/frequent switching of ND, then go for it!

That was my thought, too. Thanks.

fashionrider wrote in post #16405924 (external link)
As for "bokeh" that is ragged vs smooth, it all depends on the lens. Some lens are known to have terrible quality bokeh. I remember seeing a bokeh comparison between the 135L and a cheap lens. Both shot the same blurred christmas lights. The cheap lens had a bokeh with a bright ring around each blurred light; the 135L didn't, it was just smooth bokeh without a bright ring that stood out. The 135L is one of the best regarding quality of bokeh. Combine that with the focal length of 135 + wide aperture of f2 and you got a beast of a lens. :D

I watched Dave Dugdale's comparison of VND's and he claimed that the Lightcraft showed a lot of noise, and all the others added a little. Which is why I was thinking of using SND's instead. Particularly since I'm still building-out my gear and am stuck with crop-sensor bodies for a while, which limits my choices for fast, short-telephotos.


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bobbyz
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Oct 30, 2013 14:41 |  #565

Problem with step rings is that I can't use hood on the lens. And when shooting outside in the bright sun, I want the hood. That is why I prefer to spend on separate filters. 58mm 3 stop B+W for my 85mm f1.8 was < $60 and worked very nice.

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eventsof1768
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Oct 30, 2013 18:40 |  #566

thanks everyone for your responses

fashionrider wrote in post #16408636 (external link)
As mentioned above, the lens has a lot to do with it. The ambient lighting does also. If you want to shoot at f1.4, then you'll need a darker ND. If the ambient lighting is very bright, you'll need a darker ND. If you want to shoot at f1.4 AND in bright ambient lighting, then you'll need a very dark ND. In the photos I posted, I shot at f1.4 at the beach at noon. 3 stops definitely wouldn't have been enough. I think I was pushing more towards 7-8 stops of light.

those using 7-8 stops, how is AFing? I would imagine its pretty dark

I would like to have the ability to shoot at 1.4 in midday sun, but having said that, its unlikely i would be doing it often. I just dont want to be limited in those situations. I dont mind stopping down, or going into HSS/hypersync in required too, but dont want to do it too much as it kills batteries

maybe i should got with 6 stops? then i can always stack my 3 stop or CP filter if required.

How mant stops are you guys using say 1-2hrs before sunset?


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fashionrider
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Oct 30, 2013 22:02 |  #567

eventsof1768 wrote in post #16411930 (external link)
thanks everyone for your responses

those using 7-8 stops, how is AFing? I would imagine its pretty dark

I would like to have the ability to shoot at 1.4 in midday sun, but having said that, its unlikely i would be doing it often. I just dont want to be limited in those situations. I dont mind stopping down, or going into HSS/hypersync in required too, but dont want to do it too much as it kills batteries

maybe i should got with 6 stops? then i can always stack my 3 stop or CP filter if required.

How mant stops are you guys using say 1-2hrs before sunset?

Yup, you could always stop down if needed, but only if you're okay with having a smaller aperture. I'm in love with wide open apertures. I've thought about using HSS, but speedlites just don't have the power when in HSS...

do you have a camera rental store nearby? Before buying my Vari-ND, i rented the singh-ray (only brand the store carries) and got a feel for how dark the viewfinder is when set to high. BTW, yes, cutting out 7-8 stops of light makes the viewfinder extremely dark, but still able to see the subject and her face easily. I have a 5D3 so the autofocusing is really good, not sure how you'll do with cameras with weaker AF systems.


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idsurfer
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Oct 30, 2013 22:12 |  #568

Nice shot up there BobbyZ. I thought about just picking up another B+W 3 stop ND (had one in the past) as they work great. I just want to see if I can get a single set up that I can use with a few different lenses. I hope I can get IQ compared to what fashionerider has posted above!


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mikelino
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Oct 31, 2013 04:54 |  #569

Very nice captures by Scott, fashionrier and bobbyz.
I have the same dilema, idsurfer, i have 85L, 35L, 16-35L and 24 ts-e II.
85L and 35L are 72 mm and 16-35L and 24 ts-e are 82 mm, i´ve 77 + 82 mm B+W polarizers, but if i buy a vari nd or a fixed one nd i believe i´ll go for the 72, it´s a mesh to deal with step rings.


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idsurfer
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Nov 02, 2013 15:54 |  #570

So my Hoya Vari ND got here a little while ago. Here are two test shots for sharpness and color shift. THese were taken with the EF-85 1.8. This lens has a 58mm thread. So I used a 58-->67 and 67-->72mm step up rings on it. I do not notice vignetting with this set up. Both shots have about 30 seconds of PP including slight exposure bump, a little clarity, and WB level taken from the white of her eye. THe initial shots were a tad warm for my taste, fixed with one click! Initial impression is that this filter destroys the LCW I had before. It was unusable in terms of softness. Maybe I had a dud? Sadly the sun has gone behind the clouds for probably an undetermined period of time. But, I think I am going to be very pleased when using flash, wide apertures, and bright conditions. Thanks for recommending it fashionrider !! BTW, 100% zoom to the eyes in LR and they are TACK sharp!!

First shot was at near Max setting (lightest) 1/160th, f/2.2, ISO 800, On camera flash with BFT bounced off wall camera left.

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7439/10632538193_95ea1e0481_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …07520039@N08/10​632538193/  (external link)

Second shot was near Min (darkest) 1/100th, f/2.2, ISO 1600 It was DARK! The 5d3 did very well handling the AF. Same flash technique.
IMAGE: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3801/10632268796_6ce98eb07c_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …07520039@N08/10​632268796/  (external link)

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