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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 29 Oct 2013 (Tuesday) 09:17
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Church interior, flower decorations - I don't like the results

 
PawelK
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Oct 29, 2013 09:17 |  #1

Hello everybody.

Some time ago I photographed a church interior decorated with flowers which were main goal of that shooting. I'd like to ask you for help because I'm not happy with the results. I don't like the colors on my pictures. There was used only available artificial light. Please, tell me guys what you think - am I right that especially green color of leafs is not ok? Some of photos are hdrs. Tried many combinations in Lightroom to get natural colors and here's best I was able to do. Here are the pictures: http://www.pkfoto.pl/f​oto/20131006goslawice7​0/ (external link)
If anybody would like to play with processing some raws, here's a pack of several of them http://www.pkfoto.pl/f​oto/20131006goslawice7​0/ (external link) (about 200 MB pack, includes LR settings in xmp files).

Thank you for your help.




  
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Sdiver2489
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Oct 29, 2013 09:29 |  #2

I'm looking on my non-calibrated monitor but the images look good. The extreme vignette is a little "old school" to me but maybe that's what you were going for. Did you want the flowers to be more vibrant? They look like they were pastel in real life no?


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kirkt
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Oct 29, 2013 10:24 |  #3

It looks like you applied a lot of Highlight slider (recovery) to compress the highlights and a lot of Shadow slider to lit the shadows and you got a flat, tepid color shift with loss of contrast.

Can you post one of the raw files (one that you do not intend to use, maybe slightly out of focus or something) for further analysis?

kirk


Kirk
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images: http://kirkt.smugmug.c​om (external link)

  
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PawelK
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Oct 29, 2013 15:17 |  #4

Sdiver2489 wrote in post #16408049 (external link)
I'm looking on my non-calibrated monitor but the images look good. The extreme vignette is a little "old school" to me but maybe that's what you were going for. Did you want the flowers to be more vibrant? They look like they were pastel in real life no?

Thanks. Yes, the vignette on the first pictures is intentional. But they're not as problem for me as the next pictures are. It's hard to define what's wrong for me with those colors, I'd like them just to be more like daylight looking and I'm looking for recipe to do it :)

kirkt wrote in post #16408168 (external link)
It looks like you applied a lot of Highlight slider (recovery) to compress the highlights and a lot of Shadow slider to lit the shadows and you got a flat, tepid color shift with loss of contrast.

Can you post one of the raw files (one that you do not intend to use, maybe slightly out of focus or something) for further analysis?

It's not shadows/highlight slider but light hdr. I see that link to raw files I that I included is wrong, here's the right one: http://www.pkfoto.pl …131006goslawice​70/raw.zip (external link) - you can play with them if you would like to :)




  
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nittaya
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Oct 29, 2013 17:38 as a reply to  @ PawelK's post |  #5

here is my try for hdr. actually it is a digital blending . the edit has blue color spilling out which i noticed after i had posted (i pushed the level adjustment sliders
in LAB mode too far). if you make adjustment in moderation it would not happen.

i think the processing of these pictures is not difficult need white balance adjustment which you can do with temp/tint slider in lr and little
bit of adjusting the hue of yellow color.


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PawelK
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Oct 30, 2013 00:28 as a reply to  @ nittaya's post |  #6

nittaya, your version looks great, thank you. Maybe a little too dark for me but it's wonderful. Could I ask for a little more detailed description how did you achieved this?




  
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nittaya
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Oct 30, 2013 00:54 as a reply to  @ PawelK's post |  #7

took the 3 raw files and in "phase one capture one 6 pro" raw converter, adjusted
the white balance (adjusted temp/tint slider and also adjusted the hue of yellow
color ) also adjusted recovery and exposer sliders of all three files. took all the three
coverted (raw to jepg) in the photoshop CS5 and working in layers used very crud mask
(just a black to white gradiant) for masking to get a picture which has highlights of
underexposed shot and shadows of the overexposed shot.Then switched to LAB MODE
and adjusted the "a" and "b" channels of LEVELS to boost colors . i pulled the sliders
of "a" channel too far which resulted in blue color spilling. if you do in moderation it won't
happen. use of LAB MODE is optional you can get almost same result using srgb/rgb etc mode.
i used phase one raw converter but it really does not matter what raw converter you use
all will give nearly the same result.

i am not good in explaining .Wait others will do their version and they will be able to
explain their setting better than i just explained.

only suggestion i can make to improve your post processing skills is to keep the white
balance of the picture as correct as possible even if the picture look very dull to you.
very often newbies go deliberately for either too warm or too cool white balance just
because it momentarily pleases them. once you choose right white balance thing go
very smooth and once you go for wrong white balance ,things start to go wrong.
Raw files very often look dull and it takes considerably adjusting white balance
exposer, contrast saturation and sharpening before making them pop out.




  
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PawelK
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Oct 30, 2013 02:06 |  #8

nittaya wrote in post #16410101 (external link)
took the 3 raw files[...]
i am not good in explaining .Wait others will do their version and they will be able to
explain their setting better than i just explained.

You'e good enough. I think I got it. So you made some kind of 'manual' hdr. Will try and share the results. Thank you.

nittaya wrote in post #16410101 (external link)
only suggestion i can make to improve your post processing skills is to keep the white
balance of the picture as correct as possible even if the picture look very dull to you[...]

Ofcourse, but it might be problematic when you have mixed light sources and you want to do it globally, without using adjustment brushes or layers.

I'm still looking on your processed picture and I'm trying to find some halos around masked areas. And I can't find any! Congratulations. It's a common problem for me when I mask layers.




  
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yb98
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Oct 30, 2013 02:24 |  #9

using 2 different conversions with DPP then blended together with DPP++ plugin.

IMAGE: http://digitol.free.fr/images/church3.jpg

Best DPP Threads
DPP++ Video Channel (external link)
New Version DPP++ 11.3 released (external link)

  
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kirkt
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Oct 30, 2013 13:35 |  #10

So, by "light HDR" do you mean that you merged multiple exposures and then used LR to tone map the resulting 32bit TIFF? If not, what was your workflow?

HDR requires compression of the tonal range, and in LR you would achieve this with the tone controls including the Highlights and Shadows sliders.

Will take a look at the raw files you linked for download.

kirk


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images: http://kirkt.smugmug.c​om (external link)

  
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kirkt
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Oct 30, 2013 15:33 |  #11

Here is a raw conversion in ACR from one raw file (IMG_7469.CR2). I added some boost to the colors in LAB, but that's pretty much it for editing outside of ACR. No HDR/fusion/blending was necessary.

There is some funky greenish light bouncing around and tinting everything - you will notice that the neutrals in this image are slightly tinted magenta - I thought that was more reasonable than green, given the warmish light and stone floor. The flowers are a tough nut to crack because they are pale and yellowish with green in it, so when neutralizing the green tint globally, you mess with the flowers. The flowers/leaves are also small and get lost in the highly saturated and rich surroundings. Anyway, I took a shot at the conversion. I don't typically use ACR/LR and when I do, I don't use the local adjustment brushes, etc. - I figured you wanted to edit the image in LR/ACR, so I used those tools for local editing. I used the lens profile for the optical correction and the upright tool in full-auto for the keystoning/perspective distortion correction, so there is some automatic cropping taking place. I did not edit out your flash on the pew in the frame bottom left ;) .


IMAGE: http://kirkt.smugmug.com/Photography/Link-Share/i-Zd742B3/0/X3/IMG_7469-ACR%20PPWa-X3.jpg

kirk

Here is the XMP - copy and paste into a text document and name it <IMG_7469.xmp> and place it next to the raw file, or load the XMP you create from within ACR/LR.


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Kirk
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images: http://kirkt.smugmug.c​om (external link)

  
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yb98
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Oct 30, 2013 15:35 |  #12

IMAGE: http://digitol.free.fr/images/church4.jpg

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PawelK
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Oct 31, 2013 07:14 as a reply to  @ yb98's post |  #13

kirkt, by 'light hdr' I mean natural looking HDR which I tried not to be recognised as hdr :) I created my hdrs by setting correct white balance first and than exported three raws (-2ev, 0ev, +2ev) to tiffs. Ofcourse each raw is separate shot, not just raw with increased or decreased exposure. Than I merged them using this software: http://www.machineryhd​r.com/effects2/index_e​.php (external link). But the result is poor, as you can see in my gallery.

Your edit is impressive! You got so much from that underexposed raw. There is some noise in deeper shadows but it doesn't matter as I'm not going to make any large prints from those files. Thank you very, very much for ARC settings, it has great educational value.
I reedited some photos in LR trying your way and here's the corrected gallery: http://www.pkfoto.pl/f​oto/20131006goslawice7​0/v2 (external link) I don't get editing in LAB mode well, so all color corrections and boosts are done in LR.

I think I like nittaya's edit very much too but I don't have so much time to play with layers for now. But I definitely have to try that...

yb98 - thank your for your edits too.




  
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kirkt
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Oct 31, 2013 10:07 |  #14

Glad it was helpful. One of the problems with my edit is that I have to base my visualization of what I am ultimately trying to create on my assumption of what the church looks like. My edit is probably not visually accurate for any number of reasons, but most specifically it is not accurate because I have never been to the site so I have no idea what it is supposed to look like. I made up the interpretation based on being in other churches and trying to create something that was visually pleasing. Pretty arbitrary!

Scenes with a high(er) inherent dynamic range require careful attention to be paid to how you ultimately compress that information into a form suitable for display or print. Sometimes you have to handle this locally, regardless of the application you use, simply because if you try to use some global method you start sacrificing one area of the image for others.

In the example I edited, the statue of Mary that is very brightly lit and highly specular is an important area of the image whose tonal range in the highlights anchors the exposure - if you want detail there, you have to bring exposure down until you get the level you want. Then you can move the rest of tones in the image around to bring them up - however, emphasizing the highlight area containing Mary forces most of the image into the shadows. So, you end up with a large gamma or shadow adjustment to lift the shadows. This starts to wreak havoc on color and tone. So, local adjustments are necessary to preserve the highlight detail in the Mary statue while bringing the rest of the image into the proper tonal context.

So, what does this demonstrate? That our brains are incredibly good at perceiving such a scene, and that our brains are capable of looking locally at a scene and adapting quickly when the focus of our visual field changes as we explore the scene.

kirk

kirk


Kirk
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kirkt
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Oct 31, 2013 11:11 |  #15

Here is another take on the image, without depending on ACR/LR. I took many liberties and the techniques I used are of little use to explain. In general, I separated the illumination from the reflectance of the scene and compressed the tonal range of the illumination and recombined the illumination with the reflectance. Then went about editing the resulting image to restore contrast and color.

Totally different take, but the flowers now have some variation and the scene looks decidedly less pale yellowish green.

This was from IMG_7468 (the middle exposure) so some of the highlights were slightly clipped.

kirk

IMAGE: http://kirkt.smugmug.com/Photography/Link-Share/i-ThCsWHc/0/X3/IMG_7468%20LB-Lab%20Sat-X3.jpg

Kirk
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