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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 30 Oct 2013 (Wednesday) 09:07
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I never use Shutter Priority (Tv). Am I weird?

 
facedodge
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Oct 30, 2013 09:07 |  #1

I use Aperture Priority most of the time. If I'm not using Av, I'm using Manual.

From looking at some of the older film cameras like the shutter priority came before aperture priority. The Canon AE1 came out before the AE1 Program right? I know a lot of people use it, but I don't understand why.

To me, the choice between f/4 & 1/125 or f/2.8 and 1/250 comes down to f/4 or f/2.8.

Even when shooting action, I use Av. I set it to 2.8 and adjust the ISO until I know the shutter speed will stay at or over 1/1000. Is this backwards? Say I use Tv and set it to 1/1000 and ISO 800 is giving me f/2.8 when I point it at the field. If the sun creeps down, won't I get underexposed shots? I'd rather shoot at 1/500 than have the shot a stop under. If the sun creeps out, it might go to f/4 and I would have rather had f/2.8 and 1/2000 for subject isolation.

If I'm shooting a wedding and I want to drag the shutter, I'm probably in manual mode.

Who shoots Tv? Please explain to me why I should reconsider. I feel like I am not taking advantage of a resource my camera is offering me.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Oct 30, 2013 09:11 |  #2

i just typed this in for the "semi beginner" thread.

The most important thing is to get the shot. After that, the rest is up to you.

I use manual most often, followed by manual with auto ISO.

Av mode is next because i'm often interested in separating the subject from the background and/or achieving just enough DOF to capture the subject. This mode works best when there is enough light to assure your shutter speed stays up.

I use Tv when photographing moving objects in varying light conditions. For instance sports or kids playing. You can dial in the right SS to stop action or give just enough blur to convey movement in the shot.

Although there are options to limit how much the camera changes the settins, I don't like having more than one variable left to the camera at one time.

your method of bumping the ISO might unnecessarily, have a negative impact on image quality


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TTUShooter
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Oct 30, 2013 09:13 |  #3

I rarely use shutter priority mode either. But I generally never shoot action/sports. I can see the Usefulness of it in that scenario.


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Bonbridge
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Oct 30, 2013 09:18 |  #4

I never use it too just like AUTO ISO. And I think if I where a sports shooter I still didn't use it much.

I always use AV except when I use flashes, or do long exposures.

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facedodge
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Oct 30, 2013 09:22 |  #5

I probably should be using manual mode more often. I used to use it exclusively until I read some post here about chasing the needle. I usually don't think about it often enough. I'm equally comfortable with both modes.

I'm sure there would be just as many half stop over/under exposed shots here and there using both modes, just for different reasons.


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RichSoansPhotos
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Oct 30, 2013 09:38 |  #6
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facedodge wrote in post #16410630 (external link)
I use Aperture Priority most of the time. If I'm not using Av, I'm using Manual.

From looking at some of the older film cameras like the shutter priority came before aperture priority. The Canon AE1 came out before the AE1 Program right? I know a lot of people use it, but I don't understand why.

To me, the choice between f/4 & 1/125 or f/2.8 and 1/250 comes down to f/4 or f/2.8.

Even when shooting action, I use Av. I set it to 2.8 and adjust the ISO until I know the shutter speed will stay at or over 1/1000. Is this backwards? Say I use Tv and set it to 1/1000 and ISO 800 is giving me f/2.8 when I point it at the field. If the sun creeps down, won't I get underexposed shots? I'd rather shoot at 1/500 than have the shot a stop under. If the sun creeps out, it might go to f/4 and I would have rather had f/2.8 and 1/2000 for subject isolation.

If I'm shooting a wedding and I want to drag the shutter, I'm probably in manual mode.

Who shoots Tv? Please explain to me why I should reconsider. I feel like I am not taking advantage of a resource my camera is offering me.


It's not weird, it's probably not conducive towards your photography

I've used all of the modes (apart from the "creative" modes), that is M, Bulb, Av, Tv and P

My current mode is M, but use Bulb for firework photography




  
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steelbluesleepr
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Oct 30, 2013 10:11 as a reply to  @ RichSoansPhotos's post |  #7

I never use shutter priority either; I'm always in Aperture Priority or Manual.


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xchangx
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Oct 30, 2013 10:33 |  #8

hes gone wrote in post #16410639 (external link)
=he's gone;16410639]i just typed this in for the "semi beginner" thread.

your method of bumping the ISO might unnecessarily, have a negative impact on image quality

The problem with this is that in sports you want to isolate the player (thus shooting at the widest aperture you can). Shooting in TV will vary that aperture making your backgrounds unpredictable.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Oct 30, 2013 13:22 |  #9

xchangx wrote in post #16410800 (external link)
The problem with this is that in sports you want to isolate the player (thus shooting at the widest aperture you can). Shooting in TV will vary that aperture making your backgrounds unpredictable.

while all of this is debatable, i started off the comment by saying that the most important thing is to get the shot. Too much concern over DOF or noise or motion blur is going to do nothing but make you miss the shot.

I just flipped through SI's 100 greatest sports photos

http://sportsillustrat​ed.cnn.com …otos-of-all-time-final/1/ (external link)

many of the shots show large DOF, many of the shots are not even on the field of play. Most of the wide basketball shots under the net show HUGE DOF. You're also not going to isolate anyone in a pile of linemen with thin DOF.

Subject isolation can also be done without thin DOF. For instance, with anticipating the shot and great framing, or with contrast between tones or hues of the main subject and the rest of the shot.

even in Tv mode you should set your ISO to a point that gives you a +/- 1 stop range of aperture that you want to achieve. but again, it's all subjective.


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Oct 30, 2013 17:25 as a reply to  @ Left Handed Brisket's post |  #10

I never use Tv either and do the same thing for sports in mixed lighting - use Av and make sure my ISO is high enough. If I need that much control over the SS I use M. If I'm at ISO 3200 or 6400, chances are I'm close to maxing out, so I'm likely to be in M.


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JeffreyG
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Oct 30, 2013 19:28 |  #11

There are pretty much two ways to shoot anything. Manual and some kind of auto metered mode.

I use manual exposure most of the time. When the light levels are changing I will use an auto metered mode. Then you think....which one?

Biggest problem with Canon is that they seem to think we still have film cameras. This is kind of stupid, but nevertheless we actually have three variables to control the exposure. So there should be (kind of are) three auto metered modes.
Av - you pick the aperture and ISO, camera picks the shutter speed.
Tv - you pick the shutter and ISO, camera picks the aperture.
M + auto ISO - you pick aperture and shutter, camera picks the ISO.

For the vast majority of what I expect most people shoot, aperture and shutter speed are more important to the final image than the ISO. So M + auto ISO is the best auto metered mode. It just kind of sucks that Canon doesn't give us exposure compensation or functionality with flash in this mode.

I can also show you that if your goal is to achieve the lowest possible ISO for every shot in changing light, then M + auto ISO is the best approach.

Personally.....I pretty much never use Av or Tv, and I certainly never use P. I use M mode, and if the light is changing then I enable auto ISO as the auto exposure mode of choice. I can hardly think of scenarios where Av or Tv are better.


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PMGphotog
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Oct 30, 2013 19:46 |  #12

When I do street photography I use Aperture priority and set my ISO to 400 or 800 depending ( even in the Summer in Glasgow..) on what the day looks like. I allows me to think of the composition and what I'm trying to make as a photograph instead of other stuff.

What little sports stuff I've done Shutter speed was more important to stop the action so I used that.

For live bands I used to juggle between both, but now I tend to practice in Manual with the support acts and this helps when the main band come on. ( usually they have better lighting and I can adjust from shot to shot ) and then I have an idea how to expose in Manual when I need to get a certain shot.

I suppose everyone does it differently depending on what kind of photograph you are trying to make. The main thing for me is when I have some shots that require less fixing after the fact in Lightroom.


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JeffreyG
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Oct 30, 2013 19:48 |  #13

I actually am an engineer that works a lot in the realm of controls theory. I think for a lot of photographers it is kind of hard to understand why you want the variable that you want to be the lowest to function as the dependent variable. Let's try an example.

Suppose you are shooting a soccer game with an f/5.6 telephoto zoom. You want to maintain 1/1000 as an absolute floor in order to freeze action. The day is highly variable for clouds, with exposures running from EV13 (ISO 400 at f/5.6 and 1/1000) to EV10 (ISO 3200 at f/5.6 and 1/1000).

You love ISO400, but you are not so keen on ISO 3200 because it is kind of noisy. How would we shoot this soccer game using Av, Tv or M+auto ISO?

Let's try Tv. We know 1/1000 is our floor so lets set that. Now, what do we pick for ISO. Can we pick ISO 400?

The answer is NO! If we select ISO 400 then everything is fine when the sun is out, but as soon as a cloud passes, the camera cannot open up the lens beyond f/5.6 and so it just starts underexposing. That is not better than using a higher ISO.

What we actually need to do is select ISO 3200....protecting for the worst case. Now the camera will shoot f/5.6, 1/1000 and ISO 3200 when cloudy and it will use f/16, 1/1000 and ISO 3200 when it is sunny. But that is stupid.....we do not want a tiny aperture and high ISO in good light.

How about Av? Not much better. We select f/5.6 but again we are stuck picking ISO 3200. If we select ISO 400 for the good light, then every time a cloud passes we are going to dip well below our 1/1000 shutter speed minimum.

The real lesson here is that in Av and Tv modes, you have to pick the ISO value that works for your worst case lighting. So every single shot will be taken at the ISO you need for the worst lighting, and you will throw away aperture or shutter speed when the light is better than the worst case.

M + auto ISO means you set the key variables to what you can live with and every shot gets the right (lowest possible) ISO for whatever the light is doing at that moment.


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Oct 30, 2013 19:51 as a reply to  @ JeffreyG's post |  #14

TV is a great tool to use. I use it all the time. If your shooting sports you will use it a bunch especially in changing light. Lots of great things you can do with motorsports and shutter speeds. TV is your friend. Learn to use it to your advantage.


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xchangx
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Oct 30, 2013 20:17 |  #15

hes gone wrote in post #16411188 (external link)
=he's gone;16411188]while all of this is debatable, i started off the comment by saying that the most important thing is to get the shot. Too much concern over DOF or noise or motion blur is going to do nothing but make you miss the shot.

I just flipped through SI's 100 greatest sports photos

http://sportsillustrat​ed.cnn.com …otos-of-all-time-final/1/ (external link)

many of the shots show large DOF, many of the shots are not even on the field of play. Most of the wide basketball shots under the net show HUGE DOF. You're also not going to isolate anyone in a pile of linemen with thin DOF.

Subject isolation can also be done without thin DOF. For instance, with anticipating the shot and great framing, or with contrast between tones or hues of the main subject and the rest of the shot.

even in Tv mode you should set your ISO to a point that gives you a +/- 1 stop range of aperture that you want to achieve. but again, it's all subjective.

Yes, most wide shots will have a large DOF. That's the nature of wide angle. If I shoot remotes and have no control over AF, then I will set the camera to f4 and not 2.8, but in Manual.

As for narrow DOF, I've never had issues shooting at 2.8 with my 400 or f4 with a 600. Both I shoot wide open.


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I never use Shutter Priority (Tv). Am I weird?
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