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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 06 Oct 2013 (Sunday) 11:08
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Glowing Bride

 
armis
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Oct 31, 2013 09:43 |  #121

SwiftClickPhotography wrote in post #16413165 (external link)
I will see if I have the brides permission to post her e-mails back to me, in which I will include screen shots, because the couple denies everything MissSnapper is saying.

Honestly, don't. You don't have anything to gain from that and hasn't this gone far enough already? B&G are happy about the shots; you've traded blows with OP; some guys here give you grief for various reasons, which is par for the course on the internet in general (let alone in this section of PotN, for some reason); OP is in trouble with B&G, which they may or may not work out in the end.

Just let it go. The clients are happy and you got paid, job done.


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SwiftClickPhotography
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Oct 31, 2013 10:10 |  #122

armis wrote in post #16413231 (external link)
Honestly, don't. You don't have anything to gain from that and hasn't this gone far enough already? B&G are happy about the shots; you've traded blows with OP; some guys here give you grief for various reasons, which is par for the course on the internet in general (let alone in this section of PotN, for some reason); OP is in trouble with B&G, which they may or may not work out in the end.

Just let it go. The clients are happy and you got paid, job done.

Armis - well said! I completely agree. Like I have said a thousand times - I truly, don't care if someone has an opinion about my work. I'm sure everyone has something to say about someones portfolio. The part that is frustrating is to be lied about and is where I feel the need to defend myself. At this point I am wasting my breath, but it doesn't only make her look bad - but it makes the bride & groom look terrible, which is completely disrespectful. I just want to make several things very clear:

- The Bride & Groom are THRILLED with their photos. They absolutely LOVE them.
- The bride & groom did not say anything that she is claiming they did.
- She knows nothing about my editing styles, shooting habits or service.
- My service is between the couple and myself. I don't care if it doesn't please her.

In the end - to be quite frank, because I'm really tired of repeating myself here. I appreciate everyone's suggestions, tips and even slight criticism on my work. It has given me definite insight for future gigs. I appreciate everyone's knowledge and willingness to share and help me learn. I am not a professional, and do feel there is a lot of room to learn. I get that. Everyone has their own shooting styles, ways of editing, etc. Leave it at that. As long as the couple are happy with their photos - yes, that is all that matters to me.

The part I find completely disrespectful is lying about me and my service. Really, stop. I do not personally know MissSnapper, have never worked outright with her. It is very clear of the egoism and immaturity on her part. To have to lie about a service you didn't select for a friends wedding is pretty low. Am I a perfect photographer? No. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely! Did the bride and groom like my work and hire me to capture their wedding day? Yes. None of those scenarios involve the input of her opinion. To be honest, I think the bride is more mad than I am. She is embarrassed that her bridesmaid and former-friend would cause so many issues. I will leave that between them. Looking for sympathy? Think not - but it's obvious who's looking for drama. I don't even know why I bother keep coming to this post. She is causing her own trouble and already teetering on the lines of a defamation of character suit.

All in all, I would like to point out to everyone, the couple are very pleased with their photos. This is the bottom line. I will never be able to avoid people like this bridesmaid - but obviously can leave as the better person in the matter. Though I don't appreciate how she went about this - I think she's setting herself up for failure on a personal level. Those who get a kick out of lying about others clearly have an issue with themselves deep down.

To everyone else, thank you for the feedback. For those who have sent positive notes, it's appreciated. There really is nothing more I can say on this matter - not going to waste my energy. Lie about me if you must, but it's not going to make you a better photographer.




  
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SwiftClickPhotography
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Oct 31, 2013 10:15 |  #123

cdifoto wrote in post #16413192 (external link)
You charge and are therefore a professional by definition. Perhaps not a very good and/or experienced professional but a professional nonetheless.

This isn't necessarily true. Teenage babysitters charge, are they professional care givers? What about those who tutor, are they licensed teachers?

A professional by a secondary definition is "(of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime." Mine is a freelance type of thing. I absolutely love it, but don't think of myself along the lines of a professional level.

I get your point - but just because someone gets paid for a task, it does not mean they are a professional. While they may have a professional attitude or act professionally - It doesn't mean they know everything. I have never seen specific guidelines on what makes a professional photographer or not, but I don't consider myself a professional. I know I have a lot to learn and I'm sure there is more formal training I could do.




  
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SwiftClickPhotography
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Oct 31, 2013 10:17 |  #124

RandyMN wrote in post #16408245 (external link)
It's not nice and very unprofessional to call the bridesmaid a liar... You are kind of siding the bride and her family against this bridesmaid when if fact there probably is some truth to what the bridesmaid said. People don't always recall everything they say, and I can see perfectly clear how they could be sitting around looking at this angelic glowing bride in many of the shots and commenting. The bridesmaid has nothing to gain by lying, and many commented about the photo's, so what makes you think she'd lie about the bride doing so? I'm not saying the bride is lying either, it just makes sense that she would make a comment about herself glowing and not be happy about it. Maybe the bridesmaid read more meaning into whatever was said, but it doesn't make her a liar.

My point is simple, you don't like having your work slammed and no one likes being called a liar. And even if someone was a liar you have no business publicly calling them one.

Randy, I'm not saying she is lying about the 'glowing.' I have already highlighted the elements that were not true. As mentioned, I don't mind critiquing my work - just don't appreciate being lied about as a person, or as someone performing a service.

The bride flat out stated to me that when she read this forum, and what her bridesmaid said, NONE of it was true. It's hard to find another word for someone who isn't telling the truth.




  
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cdifoto
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Oct 31, 2013 10:24 |  #125

SwiftClickPhotography wrote in post #16413316 (external link)
This isn't necessarily true. Teenage babysitters charge, are they professional care givers? What about those who tutor, are they licensed teachers?

A professional by a secondary definition is "(of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime." Mine is a freelance type of thing. I absolutely love it, but don't think of myself along the lines of a professional level.

I get your point - but just because someone gets paid for a task, it does not mean they are a professional. While they may have a professional attitude or act professionally - It doesn't mean they know everything. I have never seen specific guidelines on what makes a professional photographer or not, but I don't consider myself a professional. I know I have a lot to learn and I'm sure there is more formal training I could do.

You don't have to know everything to be a professional. By your definition, there would be no such thing as a professional as no professional actually does know EVERYTHING about their profession. There is always learning to do.


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CanonVsNikon
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Oct 31, 2013 10:51 |  #126
bannedPermanent ban

I say kudos for SwiftClick to come on and defend her stance. As long as the bride is happy, nothing else matters. She is the one that wrote the check.




  
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Blaster6
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Oct 31, 2013 10:51 |  #127

Phil V wrote in post #16409068 (external link)
Smell the coffee... You're charging people for your work, you're a pro. Whether you charge $10 or $10,000, whether your work is woeful or wonderful. You're advertising and selling your services, you can't hide behind the 'I'm not a pro' banner.

SwiftClickPhotography:

Pretty much what I was going to write yesterday before I got distracted with a paying photo gig. (I am not a professional either but I do get paid to take photos on a regular basis.)

Anyway, like it or not you are a pro and admitting it is the first step. You are getting paid for taking photos so that makes you a pro. (So we are both not pros but we are since that is the role we play)

I know it is hard to criticize art because people have different tastes and you won't catch me doing that here. I did say that my eye was immediately drawn to the bride and I stand by that. I think the subject should draw the eye. I also said P means "P"rofessional. Not a dig at you but a response to the poster who claimed not to know what the setting does. I repeated a joke that has been around since "P" mode was invented.

I did think the glow was something you intentionally added and therefore not a sign of incompetence but of artistic taste that differs from the mainstream.

I will not offer any advice on correcting your photos because I don't know if they were final or not and regardless, if the customer is happy then you did it right.

The advice I will offer is: speed kills.
Do not rush your art. Do not try to beat anyone to the punch by displaying an unfinished product. You must be very careful to release nothing that could be confused as a final product unless you consider it final. Proofs should be marked a such.

I shot my first wedding for a friend. I explained to her I don't do weddings and could not guarantee anything. It was a low budget wedding and she said she would be satisfied with any quality. That night and the next day facebook was flooded with photos and one of her friends had a lot of comments on her photos about how good they were and that she should be a professional photographer. I posted none because they weren't ready.

Two days later I delivered my wedding gift of edited and retouched photos. She posted some to facebook. I admit they could have been better but they blew the camera phone photos out of the water. (Not bragging here--only that I can take better photos with a 5D and post processing than somebody can get with a camera phone.)

Suddenly the posts about the first photos being pro quality stopped and I saw requests for booking other weddings. (not just "you should be a pro" comments).

The moral of the story: It isn't that I am an awesome photograper. It is that being first isn't important. Being best is. (I was competing with P&S and camera phones.) Let the others be first. That will give everyone something to compare your photos to. Take your time and only release finished products into the wild. When your carefully edited photos are released the difference in quality from what everyone has already seen should be more than enough to make up for the delay. Take the time and give yourself the unfair advantage.

The alternative is that you release something that is not your final product and someone assumes it is. Maybe there is a glow around the bride and someone thinks this is not the quality of photo they would want for their wedding. How would they know this isn't your final product? Maybe a little far-fetched, but it could happen.


No, I never claimed to be outstanding in the field of photography. I said I was out standing in the field taking photos.

  
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SwiftClickPhotography
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Oct 31, 2013 12:09 |  #128

Blaster6 wrote in post #16413421 (external link)
SwiftClickPhotography:

Pretty much what I was going to write yesterday before I got distracted with a paying photo gig. (I am not a professional either but I do get paid to take photos on a regular basis.)

Anyway, like it or not you are a pro and admitting it is the first step. You are getting paid for taking photos so that makes you a pro. (So we are both not pros but we are since that is the role we play)

I know it is hard to criticize art because people have different tastes and you won't catch me doing that here. I did say that my eye was immediately drawn to the bride and I stand by that. I think the subject should draw the eye. I also said P means "P"rofessional. Not a dig at you but a response to the poster who claimed not to know what the setting does. I repeated a joke that has been around since "P" mode was invented.

I did think the glow was something you intentionally added and therefore not a sign of incompetence but of artistic taste that differs from the mainstream.

I will not offer any advice on correcting your photos because I don't know if they were final or not and regardless, if the customer is happy then you did it right.

The advice I will offer is: speed kills.
Do not rush your art. Do not try to beat anyone to the punch by displaying an unfinished product. You must be very careful to release nothing that could be confused as a final product unless you consider it final. Proofs should be marked a such.

I shot my first wedding for a friend. I explained to her I don't do weddings and could not guarantee anything. It was a low budget wedding and she said she would be satisfied with any quality. That night and the next day facebook was flooded with photos and one of her friends had a lot of comments on her photos about how good they were and that she should be a professional photographer. I posted none because they weren't ready.

Two days later I delivered my wedding gift of edited and retouched photos. She posted some to facebook. I admit they could have been better but they blew the camera phone photos out of the water. (Not bragging here--only that I can take better photos with a 5D and post processing than somebody can get with a camera phone.)

Suddenly the posts about the first photos being pro quality stopped and I saw requests for booking other weddings. (not just "you should be a pro" comments).

The moral of the story: It isn't that I am an awesome photograper. It is that being first isn't important. Being best is. (I was competing with P&S and camera phones.) Let the others be first. That will give everyone something to compare your photos to. Take your time and only release finished products into the wild. When your carefully edited photos are released the difference in quality from what everyone has already seen should be more than enough to make up for the delay. Take the time and give yourself the unfair advantage.

The alternative is that you release something that is not your final product and someone assumes it is. Maybe there is a glow around the bride and someone thinks this is not the quality of photo they would want for their wedding. How would they know this isn't your final product? Maybe a little far-fetched, but it could happen.


Congrats - I love your post. So very true. I feel like wedding photos are high-demanding and I do my best to turn them over in a decent amount of time. That there is huge pressure. It's a relief you seem to have the same stance as me. I have a ton of weddings book - several are even out of state. If couples didn't like my work, they wouldn't book me. Simple as that. I admit I could slow it down on samples, but its the final album I am super proud of - they are amazing images that really do tell a story. All the couples I work with know off the bat they are quick sneak peaks, but I get what you mean. Thanks for sharing your story. You as well as I will learn you can't please everyone.




  
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SwiftClickPhotography
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Oct 31, 2013 12:10 |  #129

CanonVsNikon wrote in post #16413420 (external link)
I say kudos for SwiftClick to come on and defend her stance. As long as the bride is happy, nothing else matters. She is the one that wrote the check.

Thank you. I agree. It's still unfair to slam a business you've never personally hired. But thanks.




  
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Christopher ­ Steven ­ b
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Oct 31, 2013 12:28 |  #130

Do you tell your clients that you're not a professional photographer ? Because judging by your website you seem to be presenting yourself as a professional--even if it is part time. Does not being a 'professional' mean that you don't have to have insurance or contracts or have backup camera bodies or pay taxes ? I'm unclear about what advantages you think you have by hiding under the 'non-professional' banner.


SwiftClickPhotography wrote in post #16413316 (external link)
This isn't necessarily true. Teenage babysitters charge, are they professional care givers? What about those who tutor, are they licensed teachers?

A professional by a secondary definition is "(of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime." Mine is a freelance type of thing. I absolutely love it, but don't think of myself along the lines of a professional level.

I get your point - but just because someone gets paid for a task, it does not mean they are a professional. While they may have a professional attitude or act professionally - It doesn't mean they know everything. I have never seen specific guidelines on what makes a professional photographer or not, but I don't consider myself a professional. I know I have a lot to learn and I'm sure there is more formal training I could do.



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Kronie
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Oct 31, 2013 13:33 |  #131

I have to agree with some of the other posters here that you are clearly selling yourself as an affordable yet professional photographer. I dont think you can hide behind not being a pro when it suits you.

Customer happy=Great!
Customer Unhappy= Well, I am not a pro and I dont charge much...

SwiftClickPhotography wrote in post #16413316 (external link)
I absolutely love photography, but don't think of myself along the lines of a professional level.

Maybe this should be the quote that you put on the top of your pages? Just to clear things up?




  
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Imthebride
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Oct 31, 2013 14:50 as a reply to  @ armis's post |  #132

I am the bride that holly aka misstrapper is referring to in these posts. First of all it needs to be made clear that I love my pictures, even the quick views that were unedited. Some of us from the wedding even rebooked with the photographer. We never discussed our pictures with holly. she quoted us on saying things we never said! Even though she erased things, I have screen shots of everything.

Holly said "the bride was kind of upset that she 'glowed' in all the outdoor shots." I never said this because once again, never discussed my photos with holly. They were not final shots!! Again holly said " I know this lady wasn't cheap." Holly has no idea what we paid. And again holly is quoted as saying " I know the bride and groom were disappointed in the fact she didn't have a lot of ideas and didn't care to do much more than needed." Actually the photographer showed up early & left late, without saying it or charging more. She was more than friendly. We had meetings before the wedding, she knew what I wanted & did exactly that.

The photographer did write me an email, as she should. She never said her chances of starting a business were being destroyed. The emails were not shown to holly. I don't think they are for my private viewing, but for crying out loud, you had them plastered on Facebook before we even seen them. Only crazy nosey people would go & look for them. We were given the link to show to family. Most people have more to do with their time. Now they were shown to thousands of people who otherwise wouldn't have known they existed. From the beginning my photographer let me know, that she was just starting out. How would misstrapper feel if I put all of her work on here, it would be bashed. Lets see how you handle criticism. There is plenty to be said. It's done. I would recommend my photographer in a heart beat. I'm done. My photographer has a way that this will be handled, and I will still be getting my beautiful photos.




  
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RandyMN
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Oct 31, 2013 15:05 |  #133

Good grief! This could have died a long time ago once it was settled as to why we had the 'glowing bride'. It's been blown way out of proportion and it really only started with a question of why we saw a glowing bride.

This is a community of photographers so we look at things differently than the general public. But as critical as we are of photography, we also know it's about dealing with people... A photographer needs to be good at more than just taking pictures if they are shooting weddings.

And as a person out on the Internet, I really don't care much about who said what to who, who lied or who liked or disliked their photos'. I just like to see professionalism in both photographic results, public image and professional behavior.




  
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Sibil
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Oct 31, 2013 15:29 |  #134

RandyMN wrote in post #16414120 (external link)
Good grief!

No kidding !

But all this cyberspace drama is going to help me with remembering one thing >>> watch out for condensation !




  
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Christopher ­ Steven ­ b
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Oct 31, 2013 15:37 |  #135

Haha.

Sibil wrote in post #16414196 (external link)
No kidding !

But all this cyberspace drama is going to help me with remembering one thing >>> watch out for condensation !



christopher steven b. - Ottawa Wedding Photographer

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