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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 30 Oct 2013 (Wednesday) 22:25
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6D users, don't kill me...

 
pwm2
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Nov 01, 2013 22:53 |  #106

gabebalazs wrote in post #16416052 (external link)
If they do struggle, I revert to focus and recompose.

That option doesn't exit when using really fast, wider, lenses. The recompose will change the distance to the subject too much for DoF to keep up.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
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OuttaCtrl
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Nov 01, 2013 22:54 |  #107

I like this guy's logic. Go with a tool that works for YOU and not from the marketing spin. There are good and bad things about every camera and it basically boils down to what your primary needs and how the camera fits your manipulations of the controls.


Cameras: 5D III Gripped | 1D MK 3 | 70D
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gabebalazs
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Nov 01, 2013 22:55 |  #108

dscri001 wrote in post #16417612 (external link)
Wow, some real pretentious comments in this thread. I'm really starting to think that some of the 5d3 guys are just bashing on the 6D to validate their choice for buying the "latest and greatest".


Are you really serious? Is this seriously what you think? This has got to be one of the most ignorant and idiotic statements I've read in a while. According to this logic, YOU have no idea what you're missing out from the 1D, or MF cameras, or the super teles. Let's generalize some more and say you're just thinking about cost and bought the 5D3 because it's cheap. Why don't you fork out 45 grand for a hasselblad? I don't see a 1DX or superteles in your line up. I guess your just a cheap and crappy photographer because you use a cheap 5d3.

I didn't want to say this above myself, ... but I agree. :)
Everything is relative; also, not everybody's made of money. A lot of people who buy a 6D make a compromise and get the best bang for the buck full framer these days. When I bought mine I knew how much the 5DIII is better, what is does better, what it doesn't do as well (very high ISOs) as the 6D, and considering the price and the savings and that I already had a 7D, I decided on the 6D. I had to make a choice between the 6D and keeping all my lenses or the 5DIII and selling a lens (or 2) that use a lot. What I bought the 6D for, I was clearly better off with keeping my lenses and getting the 6D.


SONY A7RIII | SONY A7III | SONY RX10 IV | SONY RX100 | 24-70 2.8 GM | 70-200 2.8 GM | 16-35 F/4 | PZ 18-105 F/4 | FE 85 1.8 | FE 28-70 | SIGMA 35 1.4 ART | SIGMA 150-600 C | ROKINON 14 2.8
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gabebalazs
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Nov 01, 2013 22:58 |  #109

pwm2 wrote in post #16417636 (external link)
That option doesn't exit when using really fast, wider, lenses. The recompose will change the distance to the subject too much for DoF to keep up.

That depends on subject distance too. Only close subjects are hurt by focus and recompose. But I just tried my 6D in low light an hour ago with 4 different lenses and had no problem using peripheral points.


SONY A7RIII | SONY A7III | SONY RX10 IV | SONY RX100 | 24-70 2.8 GM | 70-200 2.8 GM | 16-35 F/4 | PZ 18-105 F/4 | FE 85 1.8 | FE 28-70 | SIGMA 35 1.4 ART | SIGMA 150-600 C | ROKINON 14 2.8
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chubbyone
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Nov 01, 2013 23:01 |  #110

OuttaCtrl wrote in post #16417639 (external link)
I like this guy's logic. Go with a tool that works for YOU and not from the marketing spin. There are good and bad things about every camera and it basically boils down to what your primary needs and how the camera fits your manipulations of the controls.

Glad someone watched it! I agree. He's so matter of fact about how he feels, but at the same time, open minded and informative about other options.


6D | EF 35 f2 IS | EF 50 f1.4 | EF 85 f1.8 | EF 135 f2.0

  
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pwm2
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Nov 01, 2013 23:07 |  #111

sourcehill wrote in post #16415846 (external link)
Build - Mark II is def built better but the 6D feels like a more solid 50D....nowhere near reported 'cheapness'

Just that the normal view on build quality is weight. As long as a camera doesn't squeek and flex, and buttons doesn't stick, then we humans just aren't able to feel if the build quality is good or not - we only feel if it's a dense product.

So if Canon had added a steel plate somewhere inside a xxxD or xxxxD then people would instantly start to praise the build quality and note "you could drive in nails with this camera - it's so robust".

Just that weight really isn't representative of build quality. And magnesium shell doesn't magically make a camera more robust. Drop an egg and a rubber ball and the hard-shelled egg will crack.

So people who picks up a camera in their hand and then talk about build quality is fooled. And these forums strengthens this failed view by constant repetition of that same misconception. With enough people saying it, then it must be true... :rolleyes:


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
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dscri001
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Nov 01, 2013 23:16 |  #112

pwm2 wrote in post #16417661 (external link)
Just that the normal view on build quality is weight. As long as a camera doesn't squeek and flex, and buttons doesn't stick, then we humans just aren't able to feel if the build quality is good or not - we only feel if it's a dense product.

So if Canon had added a steel plate somewhere inside a xxxD or xxxxD then people would instantly start to praise the build quality and note "you could drive in nails with this camera - it's so robust".

Just that weight really isn't representative of build quality. And magnesium shell doesn't magically make a camera more robust. Drop an egg and a rubber ball and the hard-shelled egg will crack.

So people who picks up a camera in their hand and then talk about build quality is fooled. And these forums strengthens this failed view by constant repetition of that same misconception. With enough people saying it, then it must be true... :rolleyes:

This is very true. Build quality is hard to differentiate between most cameras. Unless somebody has direct experience with dropping a t4i and 1d from the same height and seeing which one takes more damage, build quality is negligible. Tolerances may be similar but the marketed "materials" is what gets people. We like to say, "yeah, its magnesium". Me being a mechanical engineer, I have to try very hard to ignore these parts of the camera's description :lol:. I love seeing well machined or casted metals. On the other hand, I have a great respect for composite materials and non-metals. They are a lot more valuable then most people think.


-Tyler I II
EOS 6DII, EF 16-35mm f/4 ISL, EF 35 f/1.4L II, EF 85 f/1.8, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L

  
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pwm2
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Nov 01, 2013 23:20 |  #113

gnome chompski wrote in post #16417552 (external link)
LOL, even having functioning auto focus is a godsend. Dont rely on AF too much, you'll go soft haha. I remember the days of all manual everything Nikon's and Rolleiflex's and I made it work.

Did it really? Remember that the precision needed of the focus system depends on DoF and sensor resolution - the better the camera can resolve and the faster the lens is, the harder it is to get the focus good enough. So many of your old keepers wouldn't be keepers with a new digital camera.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
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pwm2
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Nov 01, 2013 23:27 |  #114

dscri001 wrote in post #16417612 (external link)
According to this logic, YOU have no idea what you're missing out from the 1D, or MF cameras, or the super teles.

Broken logic - which is bad since your goal is to bash someones logic...

"you'd be surprised" does not mean "all" so your "according to your logic, YOU [...]" fails.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
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gnome ­ chompski
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Nov 01, 2013 23:29 |  #115

I was talking about film camera's, all manual everything, no AF whatsoever. yea, the keeper rate and convenience paled when compared to today's standards, but I certainly made due. AF is a convenience that is extremely nice to have, but it does not make a photograph. all it does is make it easier.


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gabebalazs
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Nov 01, 2013 23:29 |  #116

dscri001 wrote in post #16417681 (external link)
This is very true. Build quality is hard to differentiate between most cameras. Unless somebody has direct experience with dropping a t4i and 1d from the same height and seeing which one takes more damage, build quality is negligible. Tolerances may be similar but the marketed "materials" is what gets people. We like to say, "yeah, its magnesium". Me being a mechanical engineer, I have to try very hard to ignore these parts of the camera's description :lol:. I love seeing well machined or casted metals. On the other hand, I have a great respect for composite materials and non-metals. They are a lot more valuable then most people think.

I second that; so true.

I wonder how many people who swear on good old magnesium construction vs aluminum + polycarbonate are too scared to ever fly in a B787 Dreamliner :)


SONY A7RIII | SONY A7III | SONY RX10 IV | SONY RX100 | 24-70 2.8 GM | 70-200 2.8 GM | 16-35 F/4 | PZ 18-105 F/4 | FE 85 1.8 | FE 28-70 | SIGMA 35 1.4 ART | SIGMA 150-600 C | ROKINON 14 2.8
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dscri001
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Nov 01, 2013 23:36 |  #117

pwm2 wrote in post #16417703 (external link)
Broken logic - which is bad since your goal is to bash someones logic...

"you'd be surprised" does not mean "all" so your "according to your logic, YOU [...]" fails.

You'd be surprised how many potential 6D buyers have no idea what they are missing out, as plenty of them are Rebel owners and only thinking about upgrading due to the low price, and/or just haven't used anything better.

That sounds like he's referring to the collective "all". But I'm not an expert.


-Tyler I II
EOS 6DII, EF 16-35mm f/4 ISL, EF 35 f/1.4L II, EF 85 f/1.8, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L

  
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pwm2
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Nov 01, 2013 23:37 |  #118

gnome chompski wrote in post #16417706 (external link)
I was talking about film camera's, all manual everything, no AF whatsoever. yea, the keeper rate and convenience paled when compared to today's standards, but I certainly made due. AF is a convenience that is extremely nice to have, but it does not make a photograph. all it does is make it easier.

Yes, but it really is important to stress that the needs from the AF system increases as we change other parameters. A focus system that gets keepers at 4MP or 10MP is probably not good enough ar 20MP. And the old film bodies could get away with very ridimentary solutions for the outer AF points, when even cameras with a low-end AF system needs very complex algorithms to hide behind even the non-cross points, taking into consideration lens, focal length and focus distance.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
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bobbyz
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Nov 01, 2013 23:38 |  #119

Can we see some real life shots, say f1.4/f2 with outer AF points. So far talk (Gabe this is not for you, you much better talented than me).

Here is my 35L in good light in AI servo with 5dmk3. f2.

IMAGE: http://www.bobbyzphotography.com/img/s11/v33/p1324771398-5.jpg

85mm f1.4 @f1.4
IMAGE: http://www.bobbyzphotography.com/img/s8/v81/p1378658362-5.jpg

These are spur of the moment shots. Just 1 take and camera delivered. I find that I get less keepers when using outer points with 6d in similar situations.

5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

  
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gabebalazs
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Nov 01, 2013 23:38 |  #120

6D AI Servo, with a 2x TC on a lens (to make it tougher) :)

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7372/10620325454_2d39598930_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …29108710@N04/10​620325454/  (external link)
The Flight Home (external link) by gabebalazs (external link), on Flickr

SONY A7RIII | SONY A7III | SONY RX10 IV | SONY RX100 | 24-70 2.8 GM | 70-200 2.8 GM | 16-35 F/4 | PZ 18-105 F/4 | FE 85 1.8 | FE 28-70 | SIGMA 35 1.4 ART | SIGMA 150-600 C | ROKINON 14 2.8
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