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Thread started 30 Oct 2013 (Wednesday) 22:25
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6D users, don't kill me...

 
bobbyz
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Nov 03, 2013 08:38 |  #361

YashicaFX2 wrote in post #16420579 (external link)
bobbyz,
Valid points, all. Do you think more 5D2 shooters upgraded to the 6D, 5D3, or just keep shooting the 5D2? My guess is that more of them kept the 5D2 than either of the upgrades. This is, as usual, based on absolutely nothing. The definition of a guess.

I don't think it prudent to admit beating someone to death with your camera. I hope that was hypothetical.

Honestly in my opinion most working folks care more about money than hobbyist like me. They keep whatever works and only upgrade when they have to. Most 5dmk2 shooters that I know will **** about outer points with fast glass and will use center and recompose.


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

  
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gfspencer
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Nov 03, 2013 08:44 |  #362

kin2son wrote in post #16417485 (external link)
High iso never makes or breaks a photo, AF does imho.

Auto focus makes or breaks a photo? Really? You weren't around for film cameras were you?

kin2son wrote in post #16417485 (external link)
You'd be surprised how many potential 6D buyers have no idea what they are missing out, as plenty of them are Rebel owners and only thinking about upgrading due to the low price, and/or just haven't used anything better.

I have owned a 10D. a 20D, and a 40D. I own a 50D, a 7D and a 6D. I have used a 5DII and a 5DIII. I know exactly what I am "missing out".

I bought a 6D because of its strong center focus point and its low light capabilities. The fact that it is less expensive and lighter than a 5DIII is just an added bonus. And I am quite able to shoot moving objects with a 6D. I did it with my old Nikon and Leica film cameras. I can do it with a 6D. Now days, when "photographers" say they need 100 focus points to shoot their toddler I just chuckle.


Canon 50D - Canon 7DII - Canon 6D - 16-35mm f/2.8L - 24-105mm f/4[COLOR="red"]L IS - 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS - 50mm f/1.2L - 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS - 100-400mm II f/4.5-5.6L IS - Extender EF 2x

  
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Charlie
Guess What! I'm Pregnant!
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Nov 03, 2013 08:46 |  #363

pwm2 wrote in post #16420588 (external link)
The FPS, AF speed, menu options etc hasn't magically deteriorated from the 7D. It is still the same camera it was when it was the best APSc camera available, and just as able now as then, even if it is now squeezed by the 70D.

I don't remember who posted it in this thread but I have posted it in a large number of threads for a number of years: Technological progress doesn't make older cameras worse. Just less competitive.

Even if the Rebels have taken big steps forward, the 7D will still feel and behave as a big brother camera because of the difference in design philosophy.

And that is also why it isn't an obvious step to dump a hobbyist 5D2 owner to dump it for a 6D.

I side graded to the 6d because I made money in the process. It wasn't a bad move, just not much of an upgrade since I had to give up some features, while welcoming others.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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Charlie
Guess What! I'm Pregnant!
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Nov 03, 2013 08:55 |  #364

gfspencer wrote in post #16420607 (external link)
Auto focus makes or breaks a photo? Really? You weren't around for film cameras were you?


I have owned a 10D. a 20D, and a 40D. I own a 50D, a 7D and a 6D. I have used a 5DII and a 5DIII. I know exactly what I am "missing out".

I bought a 6D because of its strong center focus point and its low light capabilities. The fact that it is less expensive and lighter than a 5DIII is just an added bonus. And I am quite able to shoot moving objects with a 6D. I did it with my old Nikon and Leica film cameras. I can do it with a 6D. Now days, when "photographers" say they need 100 focus points to shoot their toddler I just chuckle.

I've owned the D60, and managed to get shots with it, but times have changed. It's just more fun to have good AF points. That's really enough of a reason to pay more for a body, but the amount is what bothers me.

I agree that it's not needed, but power windows and AC aren't needed either..... would you buy a car without those options?


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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Nick3434
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Nov 03, 2013 08:58 |  #365

gfspencer wrote in post #16420607 (external link)
Auto focus makes or breaks a photo? Really? You weren't around for film cameras were you....Now days, when "photographers" say they need 100 focus points to shoot their toddler I just chuckle.

I have never used a film camera............and I brake out laughing rather than chuckle at people predominantly shooting toddlers saying this.

And spencer is wrong about one thing, it is not 100 focus points, it is 100 cross type focus points.


Everything is relative.
Gear: 6D, Unholy Trinity:twisted: (24Lii, sigma 50A, 135L), and for the other ends of the spectrum, sigmaEX 14mm2.8 and sigmaEX 100-300F4.
Fuji X-e2, Rokinon 8 2.8 Fisheye II, Fuji 14 2.8, Fuji 18-55, Fuji 23 1.4
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YashicaFX2
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Nov 03, 2013 09:16 |  #366
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Nick3434 wrote in post #16420633 (external link)
I have never used a film camera............and I brake out laughing rather than chuckle at people predominantly shooting toddlers saying this.

And spencer is wrong about one thing, it is not 100 focus points, it is 100 cross type focus points.

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but the 70D has 12.3 million focus points. And every one of them is more accurate, and more sensitive, than even the best dual-cross f/2.8 AF point. Now if they could just make them FAST.


Dedicated APS-c shooter. Gripped 60D, 60 2.8, 10-22, 15-85, Σ70-200 OS and a big white something or other! Plus a 5D w/28-75.

  
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bobbyz
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Nov 03, 2013 09:36 |  #367

gfspencer wrote in post #16420607 (external link)
And I am quite able to shoot moving objects with a 6D. I did it with my old Nikon and Leica film cameras. I can do it with a 6D. Now days, when "photographers" say they need 100 focus points to shoot their toddler I just chuckle.

You going to show the proof? And how many shot of active kid with say 85L to nail 1? Don't tell me you guys only shoot f8.


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
Combating camera shame since 1977...
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Nov 03, 2013 09:53 |  #368

bobbyz wrote in post #16420558 (external link)
That is good shot to show the target with center on the red as you show. :)

i guess i'm just totally confused about what you are trying to demonstrate with the post below. you clearly say that anything other than center point suck, then you provide one image (#3) with the suck ass focus points off the stated target.

the image of the printer looks in focus, and part of the keyboard is in focus too. Of course I don't know what keys are supposed to be in focus because you don't really say anything other than "top most and the left"

bobbyz wrote in post #16419612 (external link)
So I pulled my 6d and 35L and did some quick tests. Center is very good no question but top most and the left to it plain suck IMHO. Here is my test subject.

#1 ISO6400, f1.4, 1/100, with the problem points no AF in AI servo, lens keeps trying to AF

"sample image"

#2 ISO1600, f1.4, 1/250, Same issue here when trying to AF on "brother". One shot works much better than AI servo mode,

"sample image"

#3 ISO1600, f1.4, 1/250, Trying to focus on the edge (canon red bar), Top most point yes as vertical sensitive. Left to top most, forget it.

"sample image"



bobbyz wrote in post #16420558 (external link)
Now do this test yourself, move the top most or the left to top most point and put it on the red bar (corner) and see how fast it focusses.

if you're saying that a focus point that is sensitive to horizontal lines sometimes hunts for vertical lines, well then you'd get no argument. Especially in low light conditions.

i cannot reproduce the problems you're having. I've been trying to do so using my 24-105 wide open, camera at 6400 ISO, 1/250 and light meter under exposed a stop and a half, AI Servo, Horiz cross points, focusing on various points on my keyboard.

zero hunting on keys, zero AI Servo back and forth, it locks and stops looking.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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bobbyz
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Nov 03, 2013 09:57 |  #369

^^^ Sorry for the confusion. The shots I showed were with center point. With outer points in AI servo mode, same targets were having problem.

hes gone wrote in post #16420727 (external link)
=he's gone;16420727]f you're saying that a focus point that is sensitive to horizontal lines sometimes hunts for vertical lines, well then you'd get no argument. Especially in low light conditions.

That is where having cross points is so much better and that is what I am saying. Some folks keep saying one doesn't need those cross points. Now it all could depend on what we shoot. Every one shoots different things.

I am going to do a factory reset on my 6d and try again.


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

  
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pwm2
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Nov 03, 2013 09:58 |  #370

gfspencer wrote in post #16420607 (external link)
Auto focus makes or breaks a photo? Really? You weren't around for film cameras were you?

Did you then take into account the rather lousy focus you had on much of those film images - but that isn't visible because you had much lower usable resolution? Or did you forgot that part?

I have owned a 10D. a 20D, and a 40D. I own a 50D, a 7D and a 6D. I have used a 5DII and a 5DIII. I know exactly what I am "missing out".

If you think that model list makes you representative of all users, then you just made an oops.

I bought a 6D because of its strong center focus point and its low light capabilities. The fact that it is less expensive and lighter than a 5DIII is just an added bonus. And I am quite able to shoot moving objects with a 6D. I did it with my old Nikon and Leica film cameras. I can do it with a 6D. Now days, when "photographers" say they need 100 focus points to shoot their toddler I just chuckle.

Makes you chuckle? You mean you focus on making fun of people instead of asking questions to try to figure out why other people have different needs. And different expectations from a brand new camera contra an old camera. Using the term "photographer" shows us that you aren't very open-minded an unbiased. Writing 100 focus points instead of 9 or 11 or 16 full-cross points also indicates that you might have missed the main points. That tends to happen when prejudice takes the upper hand.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
Speedlite 420EZ | Speedlite 580EX | EF 1.4x II | EF 2x II

  
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JMGant
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Nov 03, 2013 10:00 |  #371

I've jumped into this conversation late, but I say this, I own both and the 6D is my go to camera body.


JMGant Photographyexternal link
Canon 6D - Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS - Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 - Canon 50mm f/1.4
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banquetbear
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Nov 03, 2013 11:18 |  #372

kin2son wrote in post #16420427 (external link)
No.....

As I said, rebel owners care about IQ and high ISO more than AF, build quality etc. And as we know, 7D has the same sensor as most rebels from the last 5 years....

...okay, time for you to start citing your research. You claim to know a lot about what the "rebel owner" cares about. Where are you getting your information from?


www.bigmark.co.nzexternal link

  
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Nick3434
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Nov 03, 2013 12:01 |  #373

bobbyz wrote in post #16420686 (external link)
You going to show the proof? And how many shot of active kid with say 85L to nail 1? Don't tell me you guys only shoot f8.

This is from this morning. It is a 60D with a manual focused shot with a $60 Lens that I got at a flea market that has an aperture stuck at 1.4 so all shots with it are wide open, but I do shoot at F8 quite alot on other lenses as it is the DOF I want;).


This gentleman was walking quite briskly away from me down the pier. It is cropped some.

IMAGE: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3715/10650617223_f9c5bb01e6_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/stonemaster/10​650617223/  (external link)


Another from this morning with same lens, same stuck wide open, but static subject that I was walking/moving admittedly not so briskly when shooting.
IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7379/10650615333_788a1f148c_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/stonemaster/10​650615333/  (external link)

Now did I miss like 15/20% of my shots while not really caring about what I shot while walking around(was there for my daughter to play with her camera), hell yeah I did, it is a stuck open manual focus lens, of course. But I think the point he was making was that if I can go and shoot 27 pics and be pretty happy with 2 of them (not 2 in focus photos, 2 I like the feel of) with that lens then the 6D outer points with a $900 lens should be more than enough to let me worry about aspects of the photo rather than "is it in focus".

If you are making technical data about camera gear, then by all means 5diii and L lens yourself out and compare and complain about pictures of L lens boxes, toddlers and cats shot at F1.2. If you are trying to make photographs and capture moods/settings/emotion​s/good pictures etc., then the true reality is that today's ****tiest AF systems are more than good enough for the job, let alone the AF the 6D has ;)

Everything is relative.
Gear: 6D, Unholy Trinity:twisted: (24Lii, sigma 50A, 135L), and for the other ends of the spectrum, sigmaEX 14mm2.8 and sigmaEX 100-300F4.
Fuji X-e2, Rokinon 8 2.8 Fisheye II, Fuji 14 2.8, Fuji 18-55, Fuji 23 1.4
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bobbyz
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Nov 03, 2013 12:06 |  #374

Thanks Nick. The shots look good. I can't MF fast enough.


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

  
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YashicaFX2
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Nov 03, 2013 12:18 |  #375
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Nick3434,
Are you using a focusing screen built for MF with those shots? Or the standard 60D AF screen? I did OK with MF lenses back when ALL cameras had a split-screen/microprism focusing screen. I just can't do it with the regular screen in my EOS bodies. Just curious. It really doesn't matter anymore. I gave away all my film/manual stuff. Thanks.


Dedicated APS-c shooter. Gripped 60D, 60 2.8, 10-22, 15-85, Σ70-200 OS and a big white something or other! Plus a 5D w/28-75.

  
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