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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 30 Oct 2013 (Wednesday) 22:25
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6D users, don't kill me...

 
EverydayGetaway
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Nov 05, 2013 03:22 |  #481

Haha, you guys are too funny! I honestly hope I do like the EF 85mm, I don't have enough AF lenses, they can be handy sometimes... :lol:. I also really don't wanna wait another week or two on a return and new lens to come...

I'll give it a good testing this week/weekend before I decide. I will say that tests around the house have me somewhat missing the Samyang already though... the CA on this lens is surprisingly prominent even on basic household items :confused:

Also, thanks for the compliment dscri001 :)


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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unistudent1962
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Nov 05, 2013 03:31 |  #482

Originally Posted by gfspencer View Post
Now days, when "photographers" say they need 100 focus points to shoot their toddler I just chuckle.

Photorebel wrote in post #16424884 (external link)
:)

That brought a smile to my face too.

If you need 100 to shoot toddlers, how many do you need to shoot cats, given cats are faster moving and less predictable than toddlers?


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pwm2
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Nov 05, 2013 05:46 |  #483

Charlie wrote in post #16424898 (external link)
the 6D does very well with focus/recompose, even if it's a looked down upon practice ;)

There are no cameras that do better/worse with focus/recompose, unless we consider different DoF.

It's a question of how much you recompose and how much you then change the focus distance compared to the available DoF.

Here is an article about it, but there are much information available.
http://digital-photography-school.com …he-focus-recompose-method (external link)


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pwm2
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Nov 05, 2013 05:57 |  #484

kin2son wrote in post #16425389 (external link)
BUT does non crosstype point has less accuracy than a crosstype eventhough it seems to be in focus? Or do you think it's the lens and/or daughter has moved before the shutter was pressed that caused the front focused result?

A non-cross point will in some situations produce a worse result. The more contrast the camera has access to, the better it can compute the optimum distance.

This is why Canon have even started wit dual-cross center points, to squeeze the last bit of precision when really fast lenses are used in the dark.

In the end, the camera AF is never perfect. Multiple AF attempts doesn't all result in the same focus distance computed. Single-line AF points will have a larger average error than cross-point points. And cross-point sensors will have a larger average error than dual-cross points.


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pwm2
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Nov 05, 2013 06:06 |  #485

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16425435 (external link)
As for the 20D, that was my point. Even with the cross type point it would still miss the focus sometimes but give me confirmation.

Note that phase detection AF can suffer from false matches if there are multiple features on the subject - you could say that it locked on to an "overtone". Only by changing the lens focus would the camera be able to spot that it had locked to a false match.

With phase detection, you change the focus distance until two shifted images overlap. But if the subject has multiple features - like a striped shirt - then the camera can see a match when stripe n overlaps with stripe n+1, i.e. a neighbour stripe. That happens to give a local maxima even if it isn't the global maxima.

Also remember that Canon have improved their AF a lot since the 20D.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
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Charlie
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Nov 05, 2013 06:49 |  #486

pwm2 wrote in post #16425681 (external link)
There are no cameras that do better/worse with focus/recompose, unless we consider different DoF.

It's a question of how much you recompose and how much you then change the focus distance compared to the available DoF.

Here is an article about it, but there are much information available.
http://digital-photography-school.com …he-focus-recompose-method (external link)

While the article is well written, it's seriously flawed.

Shooting f1.4 from 4 feet is not very normal or practical.

The tripod test is junk, since it pivots on a different point than a hand pivot.

Lastly, any experienced photog can give out zillions of samples of the focus/recompose technique.

I would prefer outer points, but I get a higher keeper rate with recompose(significantl​y higher), then I'm going to recompose.


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pwm2
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Nov 05, 2013 07:40 |  #487

Charlie wrote in post #16425752 (external link)
While the article is well written, it's seriously flawed.

Shooting f1.4 from 4 feet is not very normal or practical.

The tripod test is junk, since it pivots on a different point than a hand pivot.

Lastly, any experienced photog can give out zillions of samples of the focus/recompose technique.

I would prefer outer points, but I get a higher keeper rate with recompose(significantl​y higher), then I'm going to recompose.

In sort - you read the article but didn't understand it.

The issue isn't exactly where you pivot the camera but that turning the camera represents a spherical operation, that rotates your image plane.

That the DoF in most situations is larger than the focus shift isn't reason enough to ignore the issue as nonexistant. So any experienced photog should also be able to give out examples of where focus/recompose isn't good enough.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
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Charlie
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Nov 05, 2013 09:04 |  #488

pwm2 wrote in post #16425843 (external link)
In sort - you read the article but didn't understand it.

The issue isn' exactly where you pivot the camera nut that turning the camera represents a spherical operation, that rotates your image plane.

That the DoF in most situations is larger than the focus shift isn't reason enough to ignore the issue as nonexistant. So any experienced photog should also be able to give out examples of where focus/recompose isn't good enough.

No, I understood completely fine. A pivot on the head, spherical or flat focal plane, will produce a bigger throw in movement, completely unrealistic.


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bobbyz
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Nov 05, 2013 09:07 |  #489

Charlie wrote in post #16425446 (external link)
I was shooting again tonight, with my daughters, and outer points did reasonably well. Not sure what is going on, but I may change up how I shoot and go for the hairline instead. If that gets me closer, then I'm OK with it. Will consciously remember the orientation of the points to my advantage. I recall using the orientation sensitive sensors, and the definitely work well if used right.

Similar experience as mine. They work sometimes perfectly but other times give problems.

Here perfect IMHO. Otherwise some folks might think I don't know how to shoot.:)

IMAGE: http://www.bobbyzphotography.com/img/s8/v78/p1771622683-5.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.bobbyzphotography.com/img/s10/v112/p1789268534-5.jpg

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bobbyz
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Nov 05, 2013 09:10 |  #490

Regarding focusing screens, had one for my 5dc and didn't notice much difference. My slowest glass was f2.8.


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Charlie
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Nov 05, 2013 09:19 |  #491

so after a few weeks, or even now, you need to give an update status of whether or not the 85L is more accurate than the sigma. I'm really liking this lens, just not sure I can borrow this lens more than a few months (will likely buy off my BIL for a ridiculously low price).


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bobbyz
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Nov 05, 2013 09:29 |  #492

Charlie, hopefully I would have some time this week. Did couple of quick shots with 5dmk3 and I like it very much. Here is ISO6400, f1.4, 1/125.

I cropped out left side of the frame to make 4x3 out of 4x6. Outer cross point on the right eye (camera side).

IMAGE: http://www.bobbyzphotography.com/img/s5/v126/p678324098-5.jpg

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tat3406
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Nov 05, 2013 19:53 |  #493

kin2son wrote in post #16425444 (external link)
Maybe you are right, just closer distance ;)

With longer lens, using EG-S screen + MF will again only give you a close estimate. It won't and can't be perfect...I would rely on accurate crosstype point anyday over it.

Since you have a 6D, would you say there is no difference in terms of accuracy between the non and crosstype point provided they lock? (I am talking about AF lens, no MF or any kinds of fine tuning! :p)


with EG-S screen, my keeper rate is higher, I do a lot macro and the DOF is paper thin. In Macro, the AF is useless...

The outer point in 6D is accurate and usefull but slower to lock on focus compared to centre point at low light. the 6d centre point can AF in extreme low light, outer point cant do that, in low light 6D centre point is better than 5D3. But overall 5D3 AF is better because have more AF point cover on frame.


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bobbyz
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Nov 05, 2013 23:05 |  #494

tat3406 wrote in post #16427752 (external link)
the 6d centre point can AF in extreme low light, outer point cant do that, in low light 6D centre point is better than 5D3. But overall 5D3 AF is better because have more AF point cover on frame.

Theoretically yes but when I test both at ISO12800/25600, f1.4, 1/30 both lock on same time. And nice thing that 5dmk3's outer points lock on quick also unlike 6d's.:) But both cameras shots suck in that bad light, IMHO.:) I think I need a 2dx. But I will have to get a cat first as 1dx can easily handle toddlers.


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kin2son
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Nov 05, 2013 23:08 |  #495
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bobbyz wrote in post #16428172 (external link)
Theoretically yes but when I test both at ISO12800/25600, f1.4, 1/30 both lock on same time. And nice thing that 5dmk3's outer points lock on quick also unlike 6d's.:) But both cameras shots suck in that bad light, IMHO.:) I think I need a 2dx. But I will have to get a cat first as 1dx can easily handle toddlers.

Indeed.

The extra-sensitive center point on the 6D is a gimmick more than anything and has no real advantage under real life shooting over other similar models.

5D3 can focus in very dark environment already, anything darker is almost pitch black meaning the resulting photo will be unusable anyway like you described.


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