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Thread started 04 Nov 2013 (Monday) 22:54
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Nikon DF released!

 
andrikos
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Nov 06, 2013 09:01 |  #46

Wait, this camera has autofocus capabilities???

Pfffft, poser! ;)


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J_TULLAR
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Nov 06, 2013 09:03 |  #47

Could have had the F5/6 Viewfinder which is great for both AF and MF. But alas it twas not meant to be.


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airfrogusmc
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Nov 06, 2013 09:07 |  #48

Give me one of these any day. It has nothing to do with posing. Great DoF scales just make a lens far more useful to me. There is no autofocus in the world faster than being prefocused.

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Or one of these
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Corbeau
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Nov 06, 2013 09:32 |  #49

So, what's stopping manufacturers from printing old-school DOF scales on their lenses? It's not rocket science and, like airforgusmc, I'd find it useful...


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Elfstop
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Nov 06, 2013 09:46 |  #50

*yawn*




  
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airfrogusmc
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Nov 06, 2013 13:08 |  #51

Corbeau wrote in post #16429114 (external link)
So, what's stopping manufacturers from printing old-school DOF scales on their lenses? It's not rocket science and, like airforgusmc, I'd find it useful...

I donno.:confused: With auto focus I guess they feel it's not really relevant and really isn't when the masses prefer zooms. I can't focus for crap manually with any of my DSLRs. No problem with my Leica M M though. View cameras or medium format or my old Canon F-1s either.




  
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Bill ­ Boehme
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Nov 06, 2013 14:39 |  #52

Corbeau wrote in post #16429114 (external link)
So, what's stopping manufacturers from printing old-school DOF scales on their lenses? It's not rocket science and, like airforgusmc, I'd find it useful...

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16429740 (external link)
I donno.:confused: With auto focus I guess they feel it's not really relevant and really isn't when the masses prefer zooms. I can't focus for crap manually with any of my DSLRs. No problem with my Leica M M though. View cameras or medium format or my old Canon F-1s either.

Besides the obvious reason that Allen points out, there is another reason that is actually tied to the one that Allen mentions -- on old manual lenses, the focus ring had a rotation range of at least 3/4 turn and often more and this allowed enough space to print focal distances at frequent intervals and DoF lines spread out sufficiently to be easily readable. With the new auto-focus lenses, the amount of rotation of the focus ring is generally around 1/4 turn and hardly ever more than 1/3 turn. This really does not allow sufficient space to legibly print focus distances and DoF lines.

One might ask why have they designed lenses so that the aperture ring has such a small amount of rotation and the answer is that people want fast focusing lenses. If the focusing motor had to rotate the focus ring three or four times as far, it obviously means a much greater time to reach focus. Nobody (to any meaningful degree) complains about manual focusing being more difficult with AF lenses, but you can bet there would be a howl if a new lens that made MF easier was slower to AF than comparable lenses. Compound this with the fact that focusing screens on modern cameras are not optimized for manual focusing the way that they were on manual cameras forty years ago.


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Shadowblade
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Nov 06, 2013 15:04 |  #53

Focus peaking EVFs and live view are the modern equivalents to ground glass - you get a much brighter image, can zoom in for even greater precision and get real-time feedback on exposure and dynamic range, too.

If you want to manually focus with precision, a good EVF is better than any mirror and ground glass. Of course, this can be at the expense of speed.




  
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MDoc
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Nov 06, 2013 16:38 |  #54

As an owner of a D600 and over 15 manual focus lenses I can say that I can focus freely down to 1.4 however I think Nikon missed a real opportunity here to add a split prism focus screen to aid in focus down to 1.2.
To make a retro camera for the ease of use of manual lenses and not add the use of P, S, A and M is also just as ridiculous. I can already use A and M on the D600 but on my Nikon FA film camera I can use P S A & M on manual lenses. It's not a new technology and it's oversight along with the focus screen means that I have no reason to purchase this camera. The one I already own is one of the very best cameras on the market today.
Missed the mark for me Nikon.
I only wish Canon would make a digital camera {"A-1 D" } for my antiqued FD lenses.
I guess I am old school :)


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airfrogusmc
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Nov 06, 2013 17:02 |  #55

Shadowblade wrote in post #16430118 (external link)
Focus peaking EVFs and live view are the modern equivalents to ground glass - you get a much brighter image, can zoom in for even greater precision and get real-time feedback on exposure and dynamic range, too.

If you want to manually focus with precision, a good EVF is better than any mirror and ground glass. Of course, this can be at the expense of speed.

Give me a range finder any day;) and good DoF scales on a manual focus lens....




  
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Shadowblade
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Nov 06, 2013 17:45 |  #56

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16430416 (external link)
Give me a range finder any day;) and good DoF scales on a manual focus lens....

You can keep your parallax errors when shooting close subjects, and lack of live feedback on exposure and dynamic range!




  
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jdizzle
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Nov 06, 2013 17:49 |  #57

Shadowblade wrote in post #16430522 (external link)
You can keep your parallax errors when shooting close subjects, and lack of live feedback on exposure and dynamic range!

He's not a landscape shooter! ;)




  
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airfrogusmc
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Nov 06, 2013 18:01 |  #58

Shadowblade wrote in post #16430522 (external link)
You can keep your parallax errors when shooting close subjects, and lack of live feedback on exposure and dynamic range!

One word experience....

You learn pretty quick how to compensate for the parallax. And exposure? Lots of great photographers for 150+ years made amazing photographs with amazing DR.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Nov 06, 2013 18:03 |  #59

jdizzle wrote in post #16430531 (external link)
He's not a landscape shooter! ;)

JD,

If I were shooting landscape it would be large format B&W zone system. That could happen one day.




  
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Bill ­ Boehme
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Nov 06, 2013 18:23 as a reply to  @ jdizzle's post |  #60

A couple years ago I began scanning all of my old slides and negatives from my old Yashica TL Super. I had always thought that they were fairly well focused. It has a combination focusing screen where micro prisms can be used in good light or ground glass (frosted appearance) is used in low light. The focus wasn't really bad, but compared to the modern auto focus systems, it definitely takes a back seat. Another factor that affects focusing accuracy is that the position of the film is not nearly as precise as it is for a digital sensor. Film sometimes has a slight bit of buckle which is affected by temperature and humidity. Also, the light scattering by the emulsion and grain size also limits the sharpness more than the lens does for better lenses. There was no such thing as pixel-peeping back then nor "chimping" which is a good thing because it probably would have driven some photographers crazy if such things had been possible. Instead of online forums, there were letters to the editor. :lol: Post processing meant darkroom burning and dodging so it wasn't done very much by mere mortals. I did some E-4 processing of Ektachrome a few times before I decided that it was much less trouble to take the film to a custom lab and the cost was about the same.

Ahh . . . nostalgia isn't what it used to be . . . and . . . furthermore, it never was. :)


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