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Thread started 05 Nov 2013 (Tuesday) 14:50
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Sony a7(R): Best thing that happened to Canon users this year.

 
Ginga
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Nov 16, 2013 05:53 |  #106

kfreels wrote in post #16455426 (external link)
I'm not impressed. The A7 only shoots 4fps and the controls look really clunky. There is more to photography than just having more DR and more pixels.

4 FPS is enough for most shooters. And besides, I'd say image quality is way more important than FPS.. Even if I did shoot moving subjects, I'd still want tons of resolution and as much DR as possible.

And what the controls "looks like" doesn't really matter. It's just a matter of learning anyway.
Most people who have tried the camera says that the controls are great. They are even customizable, just like on the 5D3. :)


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kfreels
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Nov 16, 2013 09:16 |  #107

I don't doubt that image quality is important. But depending on what you are shooting those other things can be just as critical. The Canon cameras have fantastic image quality. A little extra DR can be nice but at other times it just isn't as important as other things. To be honest, the DR on these cameras really doesn't bother me having spent plenty of time shooting color reversal film.

For anyone who shoots action, that 4fps may not be near enough. Getting the shot at just the right time can be crucial while DR simply helps lift the shadows and protects the highlights. Fill light does the same thing. I know, fill isn't always available or practical but neither is 4fps always sufficient.
One thing I see far too often is people who complain about DR and then when they get their images, the first thing they do is go to increase the contrast. I get it. Better to have that information and discard it as you wish than to not have it to work with at all. But seriously, I think many people really put way too much emphasis on the "DR problem".

Also, ergonomics do matter. Especially if you are using your camera for long periods of time and/or have to make adjustments to your settings while you shoot.

Finally, they don't have the glass. They have an adapter which may or may not fully function properly on all lenses all the time. Even certain canon teleconverters don't work on certain lenses. Why would anyone expect such an adapter to be any different?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that additional DR wouldn't be nice. But I think far too many people put way too much emphasis on it as if the current situation is somehow terrible. And on top of that, I think it's ugly. Whether you agree or not is kind of irrelevant. I just wanted to state plainly that not everyone thinks that the A7 is some magical camera that is a step above what Canon has to offer.


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Hogloff
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Nov 16, 2013 09:35 |  #108
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kfreels wrote in post #16455426 (external link)
I'm not impressed. The A7 only shoots 4fps and the controls look really clunky. There is more to photography than just having more DR and more pixels.

Depends on the type of photography. If you are shooting sports or wildlife...Canon already has some great cameras for you...you don't need the A7R, but for landscapes, the camera is something Canon just does not provide, so it's very impressive for me.




  
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Hogloff
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Nov 16, 2013 09:39 |  #109
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kfreels wrote in post #16455843 (external link)
I don't doubt that image quality is important. But depending on what you are shooting those other things can be just as critical. The Canon cameras have fantastic image quality. A little extra DR can be nice but at other times it just isn't as important as other things. To be honest, the DR on these cameras really doesn't bother me having spent plenty of time shooting color reversal film.

For anyone who shoots action, that 4fps may not be near enough. Getting the shot at just the right time can be crucial while DR simply helps lift the shadows and protects the highlights. Fill light does the same thing. I know, fill isn't always available or practical but neither is 4fps always sufficient.
One thing I see far too often is people who complain about DR and then when they get their images, the first thing they do is go to increase the contrast. I get it. Better to have that information and discard it as you wish than to not have it to work with at all. But seriously, I think many people really put way too much emphasis on the "DR problem".

Also, ergonomics do matter. Especially if you are using your camera for long periods of time and/or have to make adjustments to your settings while you shoot.

Finally, they don't have the glass. They have an adapter which may or may not fully function properly on all lenses all the time. Even certain canon teleconverters don't work on certain lenses. Why would anyone expect such an adapter to be any different?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that additional DR wouldn't be nice. But I think far too many people put way too much emphasis on it as if the current situation is somehow terrible. And on top of that, I think it's ugly. Whether you agree or not is kind of irrelevant. I just wanted to state plainly that not everyone thinks that the A7 is some magical camera that is a step above what Canon has to offer.

It's not a sports fast fps camera, never was intended to be. If you need thst responsiveness, get yourself a 1DX. This camera is a studio, landscape, architecture camera where fps means squat and slow or even manual focus is just fine. Fits that niche very nicely.

Oh, and I want to state plainly that I don't give a hoot if a camera looms ugly, it's the photos I look at, not the camera.




  
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Osiriz
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Nov 16, 2013 09:48 |  #110

Hogloff wrote in post #16455891 (external link)
It's not a sports fast fps camera, never was intended to be. If you need thst responsiveness, get yourself a 1DX. This camera is a studio, landscape, architecture camera where fps means squat and slow or even manual focus is just fine. Fits that niche very nicely.

Oh, and I want to state plainly that I don't give a hoot if a camera looms ugly, it's the photos I look at, not the camera.

This.

I will never understand why many action shooters thinks that all cameras should be tailored to their needs. :lol:




  
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David ­ Arbogast
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Nov 16, 2013 10:39 |  #111

I think the forum title is valid, if only by default. Had the 6D, 5D III, or 1DX been released this year the title would be ridiculous. But, 2013 was a really slow year for anything exciting from Canon. Basically all we got a 70D with one new feature: a neat dual pixel sensor thing.

The A7 and A7R aren't a good fit for you? Think it's ugly? That's cool. :) A camera that fits everyone's needs probably won't ever exist.

As for me, I love shooting MF lenses and the A7R will not only permit using adapted Canon-mount MF lenses, but it has an EVF with focus-peaking. In short, it may be the most well-suited camera for using MF lenses. And then there's that 36MP with no AA filter and greater DR. Pretty exciting....for me.

But, I'm also realistic: It's not going to be perfect. Not perfect even for those most enthusiastic about it. Hope I'm wrong though. :lol:


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tsdevine
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Nov 16, 2013 13:38 |  #112

Me too David. I picked up the Metabones adapter, SD cards, extra batteries, battery charger, already. I've NEVER prepped so much in advance of buying a camera.

Curious to see if my 40mm pancake makes a nice walkaround solution. I realize the focus will be meh...curious to see how well it works.

David Arbogast wrote in post #16456041 (external link)
I think the forum title is valid, if only by default. Had the 6D, 5D III, or 1DX been released this year the title would be ridiculous. But, 2013 was a really slow year for anything exciting from Canon. Basically all we got a 70D with one new feature: a neat dual pixel sensor thing.

The A7 and A7R aren't a good fit for you? Think it's ugly? That's cool. :) A camera that fits everyone's needs probably won't ever exist.

As for me, I love shooting MF lenses and the A7R will not only permit using adapted Canon-mount MF lenses, but it has an EVF with focus-peaking. In short, it may be the most well-suited camera for using MF lenses. And then there's that 36MP with no AA filter and greater DR. Pretty exciting....for me.

But, I'm also realistic: It's not going to be perfect. Not perfect even for those most enthusiastic about it. Hope I'm wrong though. :lol:



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stang67
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Nov 16, 2013 14:53 |  #113

I don't understand why those who wish the A7(R) had a faster burst rate seem to be getting attacked. I think if it did, it would be absolutely amazing, where as right now I think it's only just amazing. I'm sure if it did have 10fps burst but canon level colour depth and dynamic range you would all be hating on it or at least moderately disappointed.


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Nov 16, 2013 15:39 |  #114

stang67 wrote in post #16456569 (external link)
I don't understand why those who wish the A7(R) had a faster burst rate seem to be getting attacked. I think if it did, it would be absolutely amazing, where as right now I think it's only just amazing. I'm sure if it did have 10fps burst but canon level colour depth and dynamic range you would all be hating on it or at least moderately disappointed.

The point of the A7R is DR and resolution. For Canon users who wanted a D800e but couldn't afford to make the switch, this offers a cheap alternative. Those same people aren't terribly concerned with fps or super fast AF. I don't see anyone "wishing" for faster AF, rather just people saying the camera is no big deal because it doesn't have the AF performance of a 1Dx. These same people would never likely be interested in the 7r anyway.


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tsdevine
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Nov 16, 2013 16:08 |  #115

It's not just the burst rate...it has to be able to track while shooting that fast. I think that's a tall order right now with mirrorless at that resolution.

I wouldn't be upset if it had it for those that need it. Many of the people on this thread are probably landscape shooters that don't need that feature. For us, the DR and resolution are more important. It would be hard to find a camera that can satisfy both landscape and action shooters. I definitely wouldn't attack anyone for having that desire.

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stang67 wrote in post #16456569 (external link)
I don't understand why those who wish the A7(R) had a faster burst rate seem to be getting attacked. I think if it did, it would be absolutely amazing, where as right now I think it's only just amazing. I'm sure if it did have 10fps burst but canon level colour depth and dynamic range you would all be hating on it or at least moderately disappointed.



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Nov 16, 2013 18:57 as a reply to  @ tsdevine's post |  #116

I went to a PhotoExpo in N. Texas today and got to play around with the A7R for a little. Unfortunate it was only pre-production models as well and they didn't allow the use of memory cards, so I couldn't quite judge the picture quality.
First of all, the camera does feel great. I have fairly large hands and for the most part it was still very comfortable to hold (one of my initial main concerns). Some of the buttons were somewhat inconvenient to use but you can easily change that. I got to try the 35mm lens and the 28-70mm lens on the A7R. Both seem to be great lenses at least for now. Sony is definitely on the right track. You can connect your iPhone to the camera via wifi and then basically control focus and the shutter using an app. Pictures can be saved on both the camera and the phone or you can just review them on your phone. Definitely some very nifty features there and I was very impressed.

With all that being said, I will be canceling my pre-order and stay with a Canon DSLR. The shutter of the A7R was loud and not very smooth, the AF seemed slow and many of my pictures seemed out of focus or shaky from what I could tell from the short review time. The area was fairly well lit and I would think a lot of it was due me just playing around and not using the correct settings, but it didn't cause the wow effect I was hoping for (once again probably my fault due to unrealistic expectations). The thing that annoyed me the most though was the OLED viewfinder. While it certain offers some great functionality, it just seemed to be slow and sluggish.

All in all it is probably a great secondary camera. (Even the Sony rep told me he was shooting Canon and will keep his 5dM3 and get the A7R as an additional camera for now, not as a replacement). Keep it on the radar, wait for a couple firmware updates and apps to come out and possibly improve performance and definitely wait for more native lenses to come out (aka sweet sweet Zeiss glass :D)




  
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kfreels
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Nov 17, 2013 18:03 |  #117

Hogloff wrote in post #16455891 (external link)
It's not a sports fast fps camera, never was intended to be. If you need thst responsiveness, get yourself a 1DX. This camera is a studio, landscape, architecture camera where fps means squat and slow or even manual focus is just fine. Fits that niche very nicely.

Oh, and I want to state plainly that I don't give a hoot if a camera looms ugly, it's the photos I look at, not the camera.

I know. And I don't need a 1DX. I have a 7D that I'm happy with. I still think you are missing my point. My point was that although the Sony may do DR and resolution very well, that doesn't mean that Canon is somehow not making cameras that people want. There are a many, many other reasons that people buy cameras and many of us just don't need the extra DR and pixels enough to give up the other features we would have to lose to get into that camera system. That's all I'm saying. If you like the Sony, then by all means, go get one and quit griping at Canon.

One thing I do find interesting is that Sony is rumored to be coming out with Eye Control AF in 2014. That should excite you, Hogloff. ;) http://www.sonyalpharu​mors.com …acking-af-coming-in-2014/ (external link)


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Nov 17, 2013 18:47 |  #118

kfreels wrote in post #16459185 (external link)
I know. And I don't need a 1DX. I have a 7D that I'm happy with. I still think you are missing my point. My point was that although the Sony may do DR and resolution very well, that doesn't mean that Canon is somehow not making cameras that people want. There are a many, many other reasons that people buy cameras and many of us just don't need the extra DR and pixels enough to give up the other features we would have to lose to get into that camera system. That's all I'm saying. If you like the Sony, then by all means, go get one and quit griping at Canon.

I think a lot of the issue stems from the fact that (historically) Canon had the "best" DSLR solution for landscapers, in the shape of the 5D2; and still has superb landscape lenses (such as their range of TS glass). Nikon had a great all-rounder with the D700.

...and then they "traded places" (with the replacements)

Canon landscape shooters (and there are plenty) have obviously now been looking rather jealously at the D800, with the knowledge that the 5D3 is now a superb all-rounder (unlike the 5D2) but is way off the image quality of the (more landscape/studio suited) Nikon. Hence the reason for the excitement with the A7R - for landscapers, high fps and fast AF are very low on the needs list.

A Canon shooter (with a selection of good glass) can now keep that glass and use it (with an adaptor) on the Sony; something that's not possible with the D800.

As long as the A7R delivers, it's an ideal solution - great Canon glass with an existing "fast" body (5D3, 7D) for work requiring an all-round with good AF, and the same glass with an A7R for landscapes.

At some point (I assume) Canon will make a high resolution sensor with great DR and fix all the banding problems (and thus Canon landscape shooters will be happy). Unfortunately, all they're getting for Xmas is a white EOS 100D, so they're p*ssed. And I don't blame them.


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tsdevine
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Nov 17, 2013 18:54 |  #119

Good summary...that's where I am.

sploo wrote in post #16459270 (external link)
I think a lot of the issue stems from the fact that (historically) Canon had the "best" DSLR solution for landscapers, in the shape of the 5D2; and still has superb landscape lenses (such as their range of TS glass). Nikon had a great all-rounder with the D700.

...and then they "traded places" (with the replacements)

Canon landscape shooters (and there are plenty) have obviously now been looking rather jealously at the D800, with the knowledge that the 5D3 is now a superb all-rounder (unlike the 5D2) but is way off the image quality of the (more landscape/studio suited) Nikon. Hence the reason for the excitement with the A7R - for landscapers, high fps and fast AF are very low on the needs list.

A Canon shooter (with a selection of good glass) can now keep that glass and use it (with an adaptor) on the Sony; something that's not possible with the D800.

As long as the A7R delivers, it's an ideal solution - great Canon glass with an existing "fast" body (5D3, 7D) for work requiring an all-round with good AF, and the same glass with an A7R for landscapes.

At some point (I assume) Canon will make a high resolution sensor with great DR and fix all the banding problems (and thus Canon landscape shooters will be happy). Unfortunately, all they're getting for Xmas is a white EOS 100D, so they're p*ssed. And I don't blame them.



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BrickR
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Nov 17, 2013 18:57 |  #120

sploo wrote in post #16459270 (external link)
Unfortunately, all they're getting for Xmas is a white EOS 100D, so they're p*ssed. And I don't blame them.

Yeah, but the white SL1 is not intended for the US market. It is primarily aimed at the Asian market, which really likes white cameras. The US is not the center of the photography world :rolleyes:

But in all seriousness, I get what you're saying. Canon has been all but silent this year with cameras. Only the 70d with its "groundbreaking" LVAF for a DSLR; where as Nikon, Sony, and even Panasonic and Olympus have been putting out things and announcing things this year.
There will likely be a new EOS M next year, a new Rebel, maybe even the 7dii so next year could be a big year for Canon!! :cool:


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Sony a7(R): Best thing that happened to Canon users this year.
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