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Thread started 16 Nov 2013 (Saturday) 13:01
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Simple Question, Please. Aging EOS 7D or New 70D?

 
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Nov 18, 2013 18:18 |  #31

Maxxum5 wrote in post #16456377 (external link)
It's been quite some time since I been on the forum let alone used a camera for the greater good.

My simple question is, what is a BETTER camera (in your opinion, of course):

CANON EOS 7D or the new CANON EOS 70D? Price is not a factor for these two cameras.

If you were to recommend one of these two, what would you recommend?

My experience is limited to casual/amateur photography. People, car shows, portraits. I'd like to get more serious and eventually hone my skills.

Thank you all in advance.

In your case the 70D might be the better choice.




  
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Maxxum5
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Nov 18, 2013 18:27 |  #32

amfoto1 wrote in post #16460933 (external link)
There are lots of ways to look at it...

Depreciation: 7D is a 4 year old model and bound to be replaced soon. When a "Mark II" comes out, the value of the current model will drop (unless Canon really screws something up and the Mk II is a big flop, which is unlikely). So a 70D will likely hold it's value better. At least for a couple years until it, too is relaced by "80D" or whatever.

Durability: 7D is more heavily built, more metal clad, better sealed and I suspect has a higher rated shutter (150K). Haven't seen any shutter rating for the 70D, but if it follows the theme of the other xxD cameras, it would be a 100K shutter. Might not matter, if you don't use high frame rate a whole lot.

Focusing: Nearly identical, except that the 7D has two additional focus configurations: Spot Focus and Expansion Point Focus. Both cameras have All Points/Auto Selection, Single Point/Manual Selection, and Zone Focus. I'm a fan of Spot Focus for some purposes, and to a lesser degree Expansion Points, so in this respect I'm more inclined to the 7D. Both have 19 cross-type AF points and the Active Matrix focus screen. 7D has a discrete chip driving the AF system (similar to 1D series models) and a pair of Digic 4 processors... but this might not make all that much difference since the single Digic 5 processor used by the 70D fror everything is claimed to be quite an upgrade. The 70D's menu has some improvements that make accessing and tweaking various settings, including those related to AF, a bit easier. 70D has the new version of Micro Focus Adjust, which supports more lenses (40 vs 20), is lens serial number specific (vs lens model specific), and allows two adjustments on zooms. This is the same as on 5DIII, 6D and 1DX. 60D didn't have MFA at all! 50D, 7D and 5DII all have the same, first version of MFA.

Controls: the 7D follows the general layout of the 50D and earlier, and the 5d series, which many feel is a bit easier to use. 70D follows on the design revisions of the 60D, which also have been carried over into the 6D. This is sort of a step up from, but includes some aspects of the Rebel/xxxD series cameras. The most noticeable difference is the "joystick" on the 7D, where the 70D uses a mult-directional button instead. On the other hand, the 70D (and 60D/6D) design makes access possible when using the camera in vertical orientation with a battery grip... While the 7D doesn't facilitate this (5D III got a second "joystick" on the battery grip, to solve this problem.... Hopefully Canon will add this feature to the BG-E7 "Mark II" for the 7D Mark II camera, when it comes out).

Video: If you'll be shooting a lot of video, the 70D is going to be the better choice. It's far more advanced for this purpose than the 7D.

Articulated LCD Screen: Which 70D has, 7D doesn't. The articulated screen should be helpful for video in particular. Can be useful for low angle or high angle still shooting, too. The articulated screen does add some bulk to the camera body, and it might limit screen size and be a bit less durable than a fixed screen. So, much as I'd like it, I don't expect to see an articulated screen on the 7D Mark II.

Frame rate: I really don't see all that much diff between the 7D's 8 fps and the 70D's 7 fps. Both cameras will need to slow down under many common conditions anyway, such as when performing metering during a burst of shots.

Viewfinder: There also is very minimal diff between 100% and 98% viewfinder. In some respects, a less-than-100% viewfinder can be a bit more forgiving, might save a shot occasionally where you crowded the edge of the image too closely.... a 100% VF won't.

Image quality: Minor differences.

High ISO performance: Minor differences.

Metering System: Same.

Wireless flash control: Same.

WiFi: 70D has it. 7D doesn't... 7D relies upon a rather pricey, separate WFT module, which has the advantage of giving considerably greater range than built-in WiFi (approx. 100M vs 30M).

Bracketing: 70D can do up to 7 shots in a bracketed sequence. 7D can only do a 3 shot sequence. This may be very helpful for HDR photography or other purposes. (Note: 70D's in-camera HDR only uses 3 shots, I believe.)

Mode dial: 70D has the "SCN" setting that gives access to the series of highly automated, "point n shoot" style Scene Modes: ala the "Running Man" for Sports, "Mountain" for Scenic, etc. 7D doesn't have Scene Modes at all. Instead, 7D has three user-customizable "Cx" modes. The 70D only has one of those. 70D's mode dial has the neat locking mechanism. 7D doesn't come with that, but one can be added by Canon Service Dept. if you wish, at extra cost (about $100 US last time I looked).

Size and weight: 70D isn't much smaller, but it's a bit lighter. I suspect the 100% viewfinder is what adds weight to the 7D, which actually is slightly heavier than the 5DII.

I don't have 70D. I've been shooting with a pair of 7Ds (and a 5DII) for about four years and have about 100,000 clicks on each of them. I looked hard at 70D, but for my purposes (a lot of sports, wildlife and action photography... no video at all) the 7D remains the better choice by a modest margin. I look forward to the 7D Mark II, when Canon introduces it. For someone else's purposes, it might be just the opposite and the 70D may be a better choice. It depends upon what you shoot, which camera would be a better choice. If you need to shoot video, definitely go for the 70D.

Oh, and when it comes to naming the successor to the 7D... From a marketing perspective Canon would be real fools to not name it "7D Mark II" and not carry over all the good will the current model has earned. Canon marketing is pretty clever, so I supect there won't be an 8D or 9D... It will be a 7D Mark II.

Outstanding response. Thank you for that in-depth personal review. I am sure your information and shared experiences in comparison will help not just myself, but many others as well. Thanks again. But based on Edgars suggestion, I am going to wait for the premier release of the 9D. (Just kidding)




  
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AngryWabbit
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Nov 19, 2013 09:10 |  #33

dnauer wrote in post #16460870 (external link)
You've captured my curiosity what in the 7D makes it more suited for you? Not being confrontational -- but curious. The 70D layout, buttons (pad, no joystick), etc is very similar to the 6D so you'd have a very similar camera with the 70D. The 7D layout is quite different from the 6D. SO what features in the 7D over the 70D make it more suited for you, especially considering you have a 6D?

Personally i would have chosen the 7D over the 70D as...
1.I have no interest in video at all
2.Fast shutter speed
3.8fps over 7fps (which might not be too noticeable but i'd prefer that 1fps more lol)
4.The raw processing
5.100% VF

I would primarily use it for action, sports etc...

With regards to button layout etc, that is not a problem for me as can and will adapt to change in a camera.

Maybe, i'm a bit quick to pick the 7D over the 70D, it's just a camera that i have wanted over the years, maybe it's time for me to accept there is a new camera in town!


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AngryWabbit
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Nov 19, 2013 09:12 |  #34

I Love Cats wrote in post #16460526 (external link)
I considered both, then rejected them for a 5DIII, which I can't afford. I'll stick to my 60D & 5Dc.

BTW, I love your screen name, but shouldn't it be: AngwyWabbit? JK:)

Lol, i've always been AngryWabbit... It's an internet name that has stuck with me over the years, mainly for online gaming :)


Canon 6D - Sigma 35mm ART - 50mm f1.4 - 50mm f1.8 - 24-105L 100mm Macro IS F2.8L - Samyang 14mm F2.8 - Optomax 300mm - My Eyes L - 430ex

  
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Nov 19, 2013 09:49 |  #35

AngryWabbit wrote in post #16463463 (external link)
Personally i would have chosen the 7D over the 70D as...
1.I have no interest in video at all No advantage to 7D
2.Fast shutter speed Huh? They offer the same! No advantage to 7D
3.8fps over 7fps (which might not be too noticeable but i'd prefer that 1fps more lol) Advantage 7D, when that 0.01785 of a sec makes a difference
4.The raw processing Huh? You prefer the 7D RAW vs 70D or any other crop for that matter?.... Advantage 70D... I think...
5.100% VF Advantage 7D

6. Native ISO 12800 Advantage 70D Crucial in low light... for action and sports.

7. 2 point MFA for zooms (if you use zooms for action and sports.... Advantage 70D


I would primarily use it for action, sports etc...

With regards to button layout etc, that is not a problem for me as can and will adapt to change in a camera.

Maybe, i'm a bit quick to pick the 7D over the 70D, it's just a camera that i have wanted over the years, maybe it's time for me to accept there is a new camera in town!

Yup! Choose with your eyes open! I am not advocating one over the other, as a matter of fact, I am not finding enough of a compelling argument to replace my 60D with one of them

Can't we all get along?..:D


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Nov 19, 2013 09:59 |  #36

MakisM1 wrote in post #16463561 (external link)
Can't we all get along?..:D

Points 1 and 2, show that there would be no reason to opt for the 70d rather than saying it's an advantage over it.

Point 3, still quicker

Point 4, I'm referring to the continuous buffer 70d @ 65JPG (large), 16 RAW, 7d @ 130JPG (large), 25 RAW

Point 5, agreed :)


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Phoenixkh
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Nov 19, 2013 11:02 |  #37

Not to throw a wrench into this thread but I've been debating the 70D vs. waiting for the rumored 7D II. I'm doing well with my 60D so based on my own thinking and input from others, I think I'll try to wait it out until next summer to see if the 7D II is at least announced.

My main reason for upgrading at all is for birds in flight. We have so many great places to shoot shore and wading birds here in Florida. I do fine when they are stationary... not so well when they are airborne. I am working on technique but my current gear is a limiting factor. For everything else I shoot, the 60D has more capability than my skill/talent.


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Nov 19, 2013 12:56 |  #38

Lucy Brown wrote in post #16457845 (external link)
70D has more mega pixels 20 vs 18
70d has higher iso
70d has video autofocus

amfoto1 wrote in post #16460933 (external link)
There are lots of ways to look at it...

Video: If you'll be shooting a lot of video, the 70D is going to be the better choice. It's far more advanced for this purpose than the 7D.

High ISO performance: Minor differences.

Bracketing: 70D can do up to 7 shots in a bracketed sequence. 7D can only do a 3 shot sequence. This may be very helpful for HDR photography or other purposes. (Note:

I look forward to the 7D Mark II, when Canon introduces it. For someone else's purposes, it might be just the opposite and the 70D may be a better choice. It depends upon what you shoot, which camera would be a better choice. If you need to shoot video, definitely go for the 70D.

there won't be an 8D or 9D... It will be a 7D Mark II.


so my t2i has over 100k clicks.. and i have been back and forth.. I use my camera for my kids sports..

Those points above have sold me on the 70d but waiting for tax return.. then maybe the 7d mii will have some info if it will be announced anytime soon... but then even if so.. I think the $$$ behind the Mii will keep me from it.


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Nov 19, 2013 14:15 |  #39

Having just tested out a 70d in my local camera store, that is one impressive camera. A little slow on focusing, but that was likely the lens. JJPEG review on the back had a whole lot less noise than my 7d at equal ISO and exposure. Unfortunately, it wasn't my card so I couldn't bring them home and really look them over.


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Nov 19, 2013 14:20 |  #40

huntersdad wrote in post #16464238 (external link)
Having just tested out a 70d in my local camera store, that is one impressive camera. A little slow on focusing, but that was likely the lens. JJPEG review on the back had a whole lot less noise than my 7d at equal ISO and exposure. Unfortunately, it wasn't my card so I couldn't bring them home and really look them over.

JPG results would indeed show that for 2 reasons, the 70D has the superior JPG engine, and it has more aggressive in-camera NR values.

Shoot in raw, and the differences become much less noticeable.

Just depends on what you shoot. :)


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Maxxum5
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Nov 20, 2013 09:19 |  #41

Great responses all. Thank you for the input and generating thoughts.




  
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Nov 20, 2013 11:11 |  #42

amfoto1 wrote in post #16460933 (external link)
There are lots of ways to look at it...

Depreciation: 7D is a 4 year old model and bound to be replaced soon. When a "Mark II" comes out, the value of the current model will drop (unless Canon really screws something up and the Mk II is a big flop, which is unlikely). So a 70D will likely hold it's value better. At least for a couple years until it, too is relaced by "80D" or whatever.

Durability: 7D is more heavily built, more metal clad, better sealed and I suspect has a higher rated shutter (150K). Haven't seen any shutter rating for the 70D, but if it follows the theme of the other xxD cameras, it would be a 100K shutter. Might not matter, if you don't use high frame rate a whole lot.

Focusing: Nearly identical, except that the 7D has two additional focus configurations: Spot Focus and Expansion Point Focus. Both cameras have All Points/Auto Selection, Single Point/Manual Selection, and Zone Focus. I'm a fan of Spot Focus for some purposes, and to a lesser degree Expansion Points, so in this respect I'm more inclined to the 7D. Both have 19 cross-type AF points and the Active Matrix focus screen. 7D has a discrete chip driving the AF system (similar to 1D series models) and a pair of Digic 4 processors... but this might not make all that much difference since the single Digic 5 processor used by the 70D fror everything is claimed to be quite an upgrade. The 70D's menu has some improvements that make accessing and tweaking various settings, including those related to AF, a bit easier. 70D has the new version of Micro Focus Adjust, which supports more lenses (40 vs 20), is lens serial number specific (vs lens model specific), and allows two adjustments on zooms. This is the same as on 5DIII, 6D and 1DX. 60D didn't have MFA at all! 50D, 7D and 5DII all have the same, first version of MFA.

Controls: the 7D follows the general layout of the 50D and earlier, and the 5d series, which many feel is a bit easier to use. 70D follows on the design revisions of the 60D, which also have been carried over into the 6D. This is sort of a step up from, but includes some aspects of the Rebel/xxxD series cameras. The most noticeable difference is the "joystick" on the 7D, where the 70D uses a mult-directional button instead. On the other hand, the 70D (and 60D/6D) design makes access possible when using the camera in vertical orientation with a battery grip... While the 7D doesn't facilitate this (5D III got a second "joystick" on the battery grip, to solve this problem.... Hopefully Canon will add this feature to the BG-E7 "Mark II" for the 7D Mark II camera, when it comes out).

Video: If you'll be shooting a lot of video, the 70D is going to be the better choice. It's far more advanced for this purpose than the 7D.

Articulated LCD Screen: Which 70D has, 7D doesn't. The articulated screen should be helpful for video in particular. Can be useful for low angle or high angle still shooting, too. The articulated screen does add some bulk to the camera body, and it might limit screen size and be a bit less durable than a fixed screen. So, much as I'd like it, I don't expect to see an articulated screen on the 7D Mark II.

Frame rate: I really don't see all that much diff between the 7D's 8 fps and the 70D's 7 fps. Both cameras will need to slow down under many common conditions anyway, such as when performing metering during a burst of shots.

Viewfinder: There also is very minimal diff between 100% and 98% viewfinder. In some respects, a less-than-100% viewfinder can be a bit more forgiving, might save a shot occasionally where you crowded the edge of the image too closely.... a 100% VF won't.

Image quality: Minor differences.

High ISO performance: Minor differences.

Metering System: Same.

Wireless flash control: Same.

WiFi: 70D has it. 7D doesn't... 7D relies upon a rather pricey, separate WFT module, which has the advantage of giving considerably greater range than built-in WiFi (approx. 100M vs 30M).

Bracketing: 70D can do up to 7 shots in a bracketed sequence. 7D can only do a 3 shot sequence. This may be very helpful for HDR photography or other purposes. (Note: 70D's in-camera HDR only uses 3 shots, I believe.)

Mode dial: 70D has the "SCN" setting that gives access to the series of highly automated, "point n shoot" style Scene Modes: ala the "Running Man" for Sports, "Mountain" for Scenic, etc. 7D doesn't have Scene Modes at all. Instead, 7D has three user-customizable "Cx" modes. The 70D only has one of those. 70D's mode dial has the neat locking mechanism. 7D doesn't come with that, but one can be added by Canon Service Dept. if you wish, at extra cost (about $100 US last time I looked).

Size and weight: 70D isn't much smaller, but it's a bit lighter. I suspect the 100% viewfinder is what adds weight to the 7D, which actually is slightly heavier than the 5DII.

I don't have 70D. I've been shooting with a pair of 7Ds (and a 5DII) for about four years and have about 100,000 clicks on each of them. I looked hard at 70D, but for my purposes (a lot of sports, wildlife and action photography... no video at all) the 7D remains the better choice by a modest margin. I look forward to the 7D Mark II, when Canon introduces it. For someone else's purposes, it might be just the opposite and the 70D may be a better choice. It depends upon what you shoot, which camera would be a better choice. If you need to shoot video, definitely go for the 70D.

Oh, and when it comes to naming the successor to the 7D... From a marketing perspective Canon would be real fools to not name it "7D Mark II" and not carry over all the good will the current model has earned. Canon marketing is pretty clever, so I supect there won't be an 8D or 9D... It will be a 7D Mark II.


very helpful!


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Simple Question, Please. Aging EOS 7D or New 70D?
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