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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 24 Nov 2013 (Sunday) 13:56
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Canon 5D III vs. Nikon D800E Test

 
Osiriz
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Nov 24, 2013 22:53 |  #16

pwm2 wrote in post #16477476 (external link)
We can be quite sure that Canon has given tis task a lot of priority.

And I don't think it will take too long until we get a "ta-da" from them. But will it be a 7D2? Their other high-end cameras - 70D, 6D, 5D3, 1Dx - are all very recent. Or do they start a new 3D line with 30-40 MP to match against the D800?

An EOS 3D still sounds nice. Or why not a straight copy of the A7R? Small and light, with top image quality, high resolution and loads of DR at base ISO.

If Canon is afraid that 5D3 and 1DX users will complain, then they can just cripple the AF-features a little bit, set the FPS to 4, and give it a tad worse high ISO performance. :) That'll do it.




  
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David ­ Arbogast
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Nov 24, 2013 23:17 |  #17

I think I have my answer already with the A7R...no need to wait for Canon. Even if Canon releases a "3D" high MP body, it is reasonable to have doubts that that sensor will be competitive with the Sony sensor in the D800E and A7R with regards to DR and shadow noise.

That said, I want Canon to surprise me! :D


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pwm2
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Nov 24, 2013 23:34 |  #18

David Arbogast wrote in post #16477860 (external link)
I think I have my answer already with the A7R...no need to wait for Canon. Even if Canon releases a "3D" high MP body, it is reasonable to have doubts that that sensor will be competitive with the Sony sensor in the D800E and A7R with regards to DR and shadow noise.

That said, I want Canon to surprise me! :D

The interesting thing from Canon's high-ISO performance is that the sensor already can take on the Exmor sensor with ease - the current sensors would be fantastic if the low-ISO performace wasn't lost to read-out issues.


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umphotography
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Nov 25, 2013 07:01 as a reply to  @ pwm2's post |  #19

How about exposing it properly and not worry about pushing 3 stops in post to see this........Big deal. Get it right in the camera and its not a problem.


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kin2son
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Nov 25, 2013 07:03 |  #20
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umphotography wrote in post #16478281 (external link)
How about exposing it properly and not worry about pushing 3 stops in post to see this........Big deal. Get it right in the camera and its not a problem.

Getting it right will blown the highlights as stated by others already.

You simply can't 'get it right' in a single shot with any Canon DSLR in OP's example without excessive shadow noise and banding. So yes I think it's a fairly big deal.


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ride5000
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Nov 25, 2013 07:17 |  #21

umphotography wrote in post #16478281 (external link)
How about exposing it properly and not worry about pushing 3 stops in post to see this........Big deal. Get it right in the camera and its not a problem.

dynamic range matters.


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Ginga
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Nov 25, 2013 08:15 |  #22

umphotography wrote in post #16478281 (external link)
How about exposing it properly and not worry about pushing 3 stops in post to see this........Big deal. Get it right in the camera and its not a problem.

Trollolololol


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Scrumhalf
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Nov 25, 2013 08:27 |  #23

OP: I would love to see these shots taken at higher ISO, as others have mentioned. I am at the same point - seriously debating if I should pick up a D800E. But I have been seriously impressed by the high ISO performance of the 5D3 and the 6D, not sure if the D800 does as well at say 6400 or 12800. It is rare to have someone who can do an apples to apples comparison, so I am lookingo forward to seeing your high ISO results.


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pwm2
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Nov 25, 2013 08:35 |  #24

Scrumhalf wrote in post #16478401 (external link)
OP: I would love to see these shots taken at higher ISO, as others have mentioned. I am at the same point - seriously debating if I should pick up a D800E. But I have been seriously impressed by the high ISO performance of the 5D3 and the 6D, not sure if the D800 does as well at say 6400 or 12800. It is rare to have someone who can do an apples to apples comparison, so I am lookingo forward to seeing your high ISO results.

It does not.

Higher ISO means less dynamic range. And as the ISO increases, you'll reach a level where the remaining DR gets below the level of banding in the Canon. And from then and up, the Canon will mamage better DR.


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MattD
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Nov 25, 2013 08:43 |  #25

As someone who shoots landscapes a lot im a little jealous of Nikon.

As a result of this (and im not jumping ship anytime soon) Iv started to shoot 3-7 shots per image, then stack them.

When you do this you get exceptional shadow detail and next to no noise. The indication of vertical banding remains but its a pretty good technique.

Of course in an ideal world Id rather not have todo this, but its not too bad.


If anyone's interested have a look at this....

Full res, 7 image stack (external link)

In the original shot the Buoy was near total black, and raising the blacks looked pretty crap. With stacking multiple images though it cleans itself up very very well.

This was a 7 image stack.


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Tmuussoni
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Nov 25, 2013 09:17 |  #26

Gobeatty wrote in post #16477268 (external link)
The Canon should do a bit better at high ISO and I prefer Canon colors and ergonomics. Both great cameras and should get you the shot.

Even though this has been documented plenty of times earlier, but I'd like OP to do a similar test with high ISO by down sampling the D800 file sizes to match 5D III files. As far I know Canon looses it's high ISO advantages if you do this. Or am I wrong?

And thanks a lot for OP for the effort. It's our responsibility as customers to keep reminding Canon to develop a similar sensor (or better) for the next gen Canon DSLR, other wise nothing is going to change...


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Nov 25, 2013 09:33 |  #27

OP, would it be possible to post the original RAW file to a dropbox. I am testing a different PP workflow which may have advantages...


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HaroldC3
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Nov 25, 2013 09:34 |  #28

I can't believe how different the color of the candles in the background-left are in the image. That is pretty strange but as someone pointed out is a known issue.

Personally, I never thought you could recover from being 3 stops underexposed without having a large amount of noise, but I guess this example is to the contrary.


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Charlie
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Nov 25, 2013 09:41 |  #29

Tmuussoni wrote in post #16478502 (external link)
Even though this has been documented plenty of times earlier, but I'd like OP to do a similar test with high ISO by down sampling the D800 file sizes to match 5D III files. As far I know Canon looses it's high ISO advantages if you do this. Or am I wrong?

And thanks a lot for OP for the effort. It's our responsibility as customers to keep reminding Canon to develop a similar sensor (or better) for the next gen Canon DSLR, other wise nothing is going to change...

I believe this is mostly true. I played with a few 12800 raws and when downsampled, about on par. Not a huge difference like the ISO100 recovery. Either way, not a big enough an issue to switch brands.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Nov 25, 2013 10:37 |  #30

umphotography wrote in post #16478281 (external link)
How about exposing it properly and not worry about pushing 3 stops in post to see this........Big deal. Get it right in the camera and its not a problem.

It becomes a big deal when a subject's dynamic range is beyond a sensor's capability of capturing. No amount of "getting it right" in camera can help if the sensor falls short of the task. Predictably there is not much interest from wedding/event/portrait photographers for sensors better/increased dynamic range because those subjects are less demanding (from an exposure standpoint) than subjects like landscape and (to a lesser degree) architecture.

Event photographers couldn't give two turds for more DR, but landscape photogaphers would love it. This suggests that landscape photographers may be better served using a Sony sensor based body. Until now, that meant a system-wide switch (Canon to Nikon), but with A7R it means being able to pair all my Canon lenses with the industry's best 35mm FF sensor. Good times. :)


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