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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 27 Nov 2013 (Wednesday) 08:17
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Applying a crop to a DNG or CR2 then saving

 
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Nov 27, 2013 08:17 |  #1

quickly, i am shooting some fabric samples and including grey/color targets to aid in color correction. I do not want the client to see the targets (they can easily be cropped out) however the client wants the raw files.

I would like to be able to send them a reasonably sized raw file where they cannot undo the crop and see the targets.

is this possible?

when taken into Photoshop, and saved as Photoshop Raw the file size balloons to 3x the original RAW/DNG file size.

I'm using CS4 as my converter, but have DPP installed and am very interested in looking at Capture One. The ability to do this might even sway me to Lightroom.


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Narwhal
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Nov 27, 2013 08:24 |  #2

When you alter the RAW file, the changes are recorded in the 'sidecar' ***.xmp file. The actual RAW file remains unchanged.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Nov 27, 2013 08:39 |  #3

Narwhal wrote in post #16483594 (external link)
When you alter the RAW file, the changes are recorded in the 'sidecar' ***.xmp file. The actual RAW file remains unchanged.

i understand this, and although i don't use sidecar files, it is exactly my problem. I guess another way to think about it is that i want to apply the crop but not the other settings.

I had a feeling this wouldn't work but thought i'd run it past the POTN brain trust first.


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DunnoWhen
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Nov 27, 2013 08:59 |  #4

hes gone wrote in post #16483574 (external link)
=he's gone;16483574]quickly, i am shooting some fabric samples and including grey/color targets to aid in color correction. I do not want the client to see the targets (they can easily be cropped out) however the client wants the raw files.

I would like to be able to send them a reasonably sized raw file where they cannot undo the crop and see the targets.

is this possible?

when taken into Photoshop, and saved as Photoshop Raw the file size balloons to 3x the original RAW/DNG file size.

I'm using CS4 as my converter, but have DPP installed and am very interested in looking at Capture One. The ability to do this might even sway me to Lightroom.

Are we to infer that you only took one image of each fabric and that it included the target?

If you included the colour target to aid colour correction, what makes you think that the client would not also appreciate the target included so they can do their own colour correction if so required?


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Nov 27, 2013 08:59 as a reply to  @ Left Handed Brisket's post |  #5

Shoot one with the grey/colour card and one without, sync the two, give the client the one without the colour card.


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kirkt
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Nov 27, 2013 09:02 |  #6

A Photoshop "raw" file is not the same thing as a camera manufacturer's raw file. Typically, the photoshop raw file is one in which the header information has been stripped out of the data, leaving just pixel info. It is still, however, converted to RGB, etc. The client would need to know how to read this data and it still would not be what they are likely expecting in terms of what most people think of whn they hear "a raw file."

kirk


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kirkt
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Nov 27, 2013 09:06 |  #7

You should be able to crop the raw file in ACR/LR and then save the cropped version as a DNG with full-size embedded preview. Then, when you open the DNG in ACR/LR, the cropped image is all that you see.

kirk


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Nov 27, 2013 09:13 |  #8

No program will ever change a Raw file. However, if you are on Mac you might investigate this:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/in​dex.php?topic=84461.0 (external link)
which is the only program I know of that will output an edited DNG file. (LR will export a DNG, but it is a copy of the entire original with an embedded xmp, so the crop is indicated but can easily be removed.) I don't know if this new program has the ability to crop an image (I am Windows so I haven't been able to try it), but it probably does.


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kirkt
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Nov 27, 2013 09:16 |  #9

Here is an image, the original raw, in ACR:

IMAGE: http://kirkt.smugmug.com/Photography/Link-Share/i-nqCP2qH/0/X3/_0000_original-X3.jpg

Here is that image cropped in ACR to the desired crop:

IMAGE: http://kirkt.smugmug.com/Photography/Link-Share/i-58RqrwV/0/X3/_0001_cropped%20original-X3.jpg

Now save the image from within ACR to a DNG with full sized preview. Open the DNG in ACR and this is what you get:

IMAGE: http://kirkt.smugmug.com/Photography/Link-Share/i-jShFHJV/0/X3/_0002_cropped%20dng-X3.jpg

The crop is part of the embedded metadata, but your client could remove it in ACR just by selecting the crop tool. For example, here is the DNG file generated above when it is inspected in the Mac Finder using the standard "Get Info":

IMAGE: http://kirkt.smugmug.com/Photography/Link-Share/i-ZJWpcbD/0/X3/info-X3.jpg

Similarly, the original sized file will open if a non-Adobe raw converter that opens DNG is used.

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tzalman
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Nov 27, 2013 09:23 |  #10

Kirk,
This is the way ACR opens an image that has been cropped and exported as a DNG by LR.


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kirkt
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Nov 27, 2013 09:24 |  #11

tzalman wrote in post #16483727 (external link)
Kirk,
This is the way ACR opens an image that has been cropped and exported as a DNG.

Yes, if you select the crop tool. If another tool is selected, the crop mask, etc. is not shown, just the cropped image - at least on my Mac. On your screenshot it appears that differently. Interesting.

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Nov 27, 2013 10:32 |  #12

DunnoWhen wrote in post #16483669 (external link)
Are we to infer that you only took one image of each fabric and that it included the target?

If you included the colour target to aid colour correction, what makes you think that the client would not also appreciate the target included so they can do their own colour correction if so required?

I'm doing test shots right now. But yes, the idea would be take one shot and be done with it.

as for including the targets for the client to use, while it is not much of a secret, it is something they don't know to do. The work is for a small agency who think they can do this kind of work. They asked me about the job on the front end, determined (without getting a quote) that they needed to keep the job in house because profit margins were so thin. Once they began to do the work they ran into problems.

They have been trying to "pick my brain" about the job all along. Really f#@king annoying, so I am going to do everything I can to keep them falling on their face, and wanting to give the job to me.

I think their video guy suggested buying a 40mm macro! This is for flat fabric samples ranging from 15 inches square to 30 inches square.

I'm trying to remain reasonable, but just typing that out has pissed me off again.

:lol

kirkt wrote in post #16483696 (external link)
You should be able to crop the raw file in ACR/LR and then save the cropped version as a DNG with full-size embedded preview. Then, when you open the DNG in ACR/LR, the cropped image is all that you see.

kirk

they aren't smart enough to use a color target, but they are smart enough to know they can "back out" of a RAW crop.

Looks like I'll be shooting two shots.


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Redcrown
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Nov 27, 2013 11:07 |  #13

Assuming your light is stable, shoot the gray target alone, set in-camera custom white balance, then blast away at the fabric samples with no gray target in the frame. Give 'em the raws, they will contain a good white balance value.




  
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Dan ­ Marchant
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Nov 27, 2013 19:26 |  #14

Redcrown wrote in post #16483990 (external link)
Assuming your light is stable, shoot the gray target alone, set in-camera custom white balance, then blast away at the fabric samples with no gray target in the frame. Give 'em the raws, they will contain a good white balance value.

Never used a colour target but this was what I was going to ask/suggest. Surely, unless you are changing the lighting on every shot, you can just shoot the target once and use that across the whole shoot.


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tim
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Nov 28, 2013 01:19 |  #15

If you crop DNGs the cropped away area will be hidden, but they can unhide it.

Next time set up your lights, take one image of the test target, then shoot manual with the same light setup and don't put the checker in the frame. Studio lights don't change much shot to shot. If you're not using studio lights you're doing it wrong.


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Applying a crop to a DNG or CR2 then saving
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