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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 23 Nov 2013 (Saturday) 08:53
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Getting kicked off our own sideline.

 
Joemt
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Nov 25, 2013 07:04 |  #16

Did you get the Leagues side of the story yet? The SuperBowl must have been played at a
neutral site, did the league have to pay for using that site? Obviously the leagues view on field access
differs from your teams director view. I'm sure these sort of things/policies must have been
discussed at League meetings with all teams.

Joemt.




  
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mrrikki
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Nov 25, 2013 15:15 |  #17

I have worked for events companies at sporting events where the money taken 10% goes back to the clubs.

They stopped putting the photos online, you had to buy on the day, I heard lots of parents saying we will just take the photo using our ipad who they are online, I felt like they were taking money out of my pocket!

I can understand your frustration but have been on the other side.


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Nov 26, 2013 12:03 as a reply to  @ mrrikki's post |  #18

If the kids are under the age of 18 wouldn't the hired gun photographer need the parents premission to take pictures of them? If so get the parents of the kids that were thankfull to you and you friend for giving them pictures that they can't afford to pay for, Get those parents together and let them send a message to all the in it for money people to stop taking pictures of their kids.



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mrrikki
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Nov 26, 2013 12:36 |  #19

DigitalDon wrote in post #16481566 (external link)
If the kids are under the age of 18 wouldn't the hired gun photographer need the parents premission to take pictures of them? If so get the parents of the kids that were thankfull to you and you friend for giving them pictures that they can't afford to pay for, Get those parents together and let them send a message to all the in it for money people to stop taking pictures of their kids.

Yes but they have probably already gotten permission, most of the time it is included in all the T&Cs when you sign your kids up for the team


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DigitalDon
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Nov 26, 2013 13:05 as a reply to  @ mrrikki's post |  #20

Team photo without parents permission. And the bus compamy didn't want to pay for advertisement.
Hope you don't mind me using one of your pictures to make a point,if you do I will delete it.


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Nov 26, 2013 13:15 |  #21

DigitalDon wrote in post #16481566 (external link)
If the kids are under the age of 18 wouldn't the hired gun photographer need the parents permission to take pictures of them?......

I can't imagine this being the case.


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DigitalDon
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Nov 26, 2013 13:25 |  #22

mrrikki wrote in post #16479363 (external link)
I have worked for events companies at sporting events where the money taken 10% goes back to the clubs.

They stopped putting the photos online, you had to buy on the day, I heard lots of parents saying we will just take the photo using our ipad who they are online, I felt like they were taking money out of my pocket!

I can understand your frustration but have been on the other side.

"where the money taken 10% goes back to the clubs"

Money for the big wheels of the clubs to take vacations, stay in fancy hotels, eat prime rib, drink their alcoholic beverages and smoke cigars and explain it away by calling it a retreat where they go and brainstorm about how to make something better.



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swmeans
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Nov 26, 2013 15:45 |  #23

DigitalDon wrote in post #16481566 (external link)
If the kids are under the age of 18 wouldn't the hired gun photographer need the parents premission to take pictures of them? If so get the parents of the kids that were thankfull to you and you friend for giving them pictures that they can't afford to pay for, Get those parents together and let them send a message to all the in it for money people to stop taking pictures of their kids.

The age of the people involved in the activity does not matter. If they are participating in an activity that is viewable from a public space there is no assumed right to privacy. It does not matter that the photographer is selling prints as this legally seen as selling their artwork. Therefore this is considered editorial use of the image not commercial use.

Also if you read the paperwork that most leagues make you sign as a parent there is often an included clause that allows for the image of your child to be used for promotional purposes of the league and/or team.

The league and or team does have control over who has access to the field even if it is at a high school as they have to pay a usage fee to the school and are thereby renting the field for the day.

Your best bet would be to have your son's team name you as "official team photographer" and see how the league would feel about that.


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mrrikki
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Nov 26, 2013 16:21 |  #24

DigitalDon wrote in post #16481770 (external link)
"where the money taken 10% goes back to the clubs"

Money for the big wheels of the clubs to take vacations, stay in fancy hotels, eat prime rib, drink their alcoholic beverages and smoke cigars and explain it away by calling it a retreat where they go and brainstorm about how to make something better.

Not in the UK where I am based, the money really goes to helping these clubs which are run on a shoe string budget.


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monkey44
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Nov 26, 2013 17:17 |  #25

A very sore subject with me, as I've been shooting and selling images with my work for a lot of years (As a journalist)

Was involved in a college sport (ten teams) ... Volunteered my images for ten years for yearbooks and calendars, etc. All proceeds went toward league expenses. I also gave parents/family 8x10 prints free. The league sold books etc, fund raising for the non-profit.

After ten years of "freebies" the league somehow became involved with a 'for profit' photograph agency (Who actually tried to hire me - and I declined). I continued shooting images and handing them out. The league told me to stop. (I'd guess the photographer complained) ... So, I then sent the league a copy of my press pass ... told the front office that the Supreme Court makes decisions about these freedoms, and they had no authority to stop me. Then, continued my 'freebies' ... I never heard another word about 'cease and desist' from anyone. And continued giving freebies.

Am I upset when parents or tourists or others take digital photos and give them to magazines, or sell them for peanuts. (This behavior emerged out of the ability to digital shoot, and would never have happened without digital) But, yes ... absolutely. What say do I have in it? None ... that may be unfortunate for my work, but we live in a free country and to undermine a parent or uncle or aunt the right to shoot images of anything is beyond me. The 'commercial police' here we find in copyright laws, and not in subverting the right to capture an image - that's history - journalist capture and document history each time we shoot an image, so does a parent.

What do we do to combat the idea that individuals undermine our ability to shoot and sell images ?? Well, we shoot images that no one else can shoot - That comes from our abilities as professionals, and that's the difference ... No one can challenge those images, not one can capture that moment, so, in effect, it overcomes the ability of individuals to compete at that level.

IF it would have been me and that league told me to stop - I would have absolutely forced them to allow the courts to decide that issue ... and not someone who sits at a table, drinking coffee and puffing out the chest, giving orders they have no right to give.




  
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swmeans
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Nov 26, 2013 18:30 |  #26

monkey44 wrote in post #16482269 (external link)
So, I then sent the league a copy of my press pass ... told the front office that the Supreme Court makes decisions about these freedoms, and they had no authority to stop me.

IF it would have been me and that league told me to stop - I would have absolutely forced them to allow the courts to decide that issue ... and not someone who sits at a table, drinking coffee and puffing out the chest, giving orders they have no right to give.

So I am curious....where did you get said press pass? I have worked and shot NCAA and NFL events and with either of these they can revoke your press pass at any time for any reason. A publication issued pass is not enough to gain field/court level access as both issue their own passes. Both of these groups also monitor and regulate what type of photographic equipment is brought into the facility by fans and it has been held as their right to do so as they are in effect tenants of the facility, even if it is publicly owned, and therefore can control just about anything they want within that facility.

I ask these questions out of honest curiosity and do not mean to offend.


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C.david
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Nov 26, 2013 21:19 |  #27

DigitalDon wrote in post #16481723 (external link)
Team photo without parents permission. And the bus compamy didn't want to pay for advertisement.
Hope you don't mind me using one of your pictures to make a point,if you do I will delete it.

Now this is way better than a watermark! If you buy it you can see it! No pirating no clipping:cool:

C.




  
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Nov 26, 2013 23:57 |  #28

C.david wrote in post #16482737 (external link)
Now this is way better than a watermark! If you buy it you can see it! No pirating no clipping:cool:

C.

Never thought of that! Awesome! Might try that!


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nolawthevideo
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Nov 27, 2013 12:05 |  #29

the only better thing would be to replace them with internet troll heads




  
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PhotoGeek
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Nov 27, 2013 12:42 |  #30

I once went to a pee-wee super bowl to take pics of a friend's kid. I'm kneeling on the sideline with my 1D3 and 300 on a monopod, when some dude with a Rebel and 75-300 on a tripod tells me I have to get off the field because his company has a contract for the game. Rather than argue, I just went to the car and pulled out a 400 and shot from the first row of the stands (about 20' away from the sideline). The guy just gave me a p'oed glare, but couldn't say anything further.


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Getting kicked off our own sideline.
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