Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 02 Dec 2013 (Monday) 12:15
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Optical versus digital crop - I'll be damned ...

 
Lenty007
Member
221 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 21
Joined May 2006
Location: Ghent, Belgium
     
Dec 02, 2013 12:15 |  #1

Hi all,
Last week I gave you the story of the "second life" 400mm F/2.8 MKI.
Today the weather was fine so I went to our Nature Reservation Area "Bourgoyen" near Ghent-Belgium. Subject being the Bird Watching Cabin.
This time I was challenged to test the difference between a 1200mm APS-C (600d) setup (+ 400m + x2III) and a digital crop from a full frame (5dII) with 400mm only.
The APS-C was set at F/8 and the 5dII at F/4, both on ISO400 and with a Manfrotto monopod.

Maybe it's just me but to my surprise the digital crop (100%) from the full frame came out better than the optical sollution with the APS-C

Greetings,


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Lenty007
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
221 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 21
Joined May 2006
Location: Ghent, Belgium
     
Dec 02, 2013 12:16 |  #2

Here's the full frame version


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gabebalazs
Bird Whisperer
Avatar
7,640 posts
Gallery: 52 photos
Likes: 1060
Joined Nov 2008
Location: Toledo, OH
     
Dec 02, 2013 12:26 |  #3

Did you focus manually, or AF?


SONY A7RIII | SONY A7III | SONY RX10 IV | SONY RX100 | 24-70 2.8 GM | 70-200 2.8 GM | 16-35 F/4 | PZ 18-105 F/4 | FE 85 1.8 | FE 28-70 | SIGMA 35 1.4 ART | SIGMA 150-600 C | ROKINON 14 2.8
Gabe Balazs Photo (external link)
Nature Shots Portfolio (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lenty007
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
221 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 21
Joined May 2006
Location: Ghent, Belgium
     
Dec 02, 2013 12:29 as a reply to  @ gabebalazs's post |  #4

AF on both occasions




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gabebalazs
Bird Whisperer
Avatar
7,640 posts
Gallery: 52 photos
Likes: 1060
Joined Nov 2008
Location: Toledo, OH
     
Dec 02, 2013 12:43 |  #5

With my setup this would never happen. My 7D or 70D + Sigma 120-300 2.8 OS + 2x TC is way better than just a crop from my 6D + 120-300


SONY A7RIII | SONY A7III | SONY RX10 IV | SONY RX100 | 24-70 2.8 GM | 70-200 2.8 GM | 16-35 F/4 | PZ 18-105 F/4 | FE 85 1.8 | FE 28-70 | SIGMA 35 1.4 ART | SIGMA 150-600 C | ROKINON 14 2.8
Gabe Balazs Photo (external link)
Nature Shots Portfolio (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gabebalazs
Bird Whisperer
Avatar
7,640 posts
Gallery: 52 photos
Likes: 1060
Joined Nov 2008
Location: Toledo, OH
     
Dec 02, 2013 12:44 |  #6

can you post 100% crops?


SONY A7RIII | SONY A7III | SONY RX10 IV | SONY RX100 | 24-70 2.8 GM | 70-200 2.8 GM | 16-35 F/4 | PZ 18-105 F/4 | FE 85 1.8 | FE 28-70 | SIGMA 35 1.4 ART | SIGMA 150-600 C | ROKINON 14 2.8
Gabe Balazs Photo (external link)
Nature Shots Portfolio (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lenty007
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
221 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 21
Joined May 2006
Location: Ghent, Belgium
     
Dec 02, 2013 12:52 as a reply to  @ gabebalazs's post |  #7

I don't understand Gabebalazs, the second picture is exactly a 100% crop from the full frame image, giving it precisly the uncropped image of the APS-C.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lenty007
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
221 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 21
Joined May 2006
Location: Ghent, Belgium
     
Dec 02, 2013 12:57 as a reply to  @ Lenty007's post |  #8

With my setup this would never happen. My 7D or 70D + Sigma 120-300 2.8 OS + 2x TC is way better than just a crop from my 6D + 120-300

My first thoughts also on my combo, but see for yourself.
As I have read from this forum the 600d and 7d share the same sensor




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tkbslc
Cream of the Crop
24,567 posts
Likes: 18
Joined Nov 2008
Location: Utah, USA
     
Dec 02, 2013 13:01 |  #9

Are you OK with a 2MP final image? If so, then cropping seems pretty close in terms of quality.


Taylor
Galleries: Flickr (external link)
60D | ELPH 330 | iPhone 5s

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gabebalazs
Bird Whisperer
Avatar
7,640 posts
Gallery: 52 photos
Likes: 1060
Joined Nov 2008
Location: Toledo, OH
     
Dec 02, 2013 13:01 |  #10

I meant a 100% crop from the crop + 2x TC image

They share the same (technically very similar) sensor but that doesn't mean that the AF is the same or your AF hit precisely :)

Please post a 100% crop from the crop photo, that may help.

Also, when photographing a very distant object, atmospheric conditions may affect the image if it's highly magnified, i.e. taken at 800mm on a crop camera (1280mm equivalent FoV). Maybe this is a case of that.


SONY A7RIII | SONY A7III | SONY RX10 IV | SONY RX100 | 24-70 2.8 GM | 70-200 2.8 GM | 16-35 F/4 | PZ 18-105 F/4 | FE 85 1.8 | FE 28-70 | SIGMA 35 1.4 ART | SIGMA 150-600 C | ROKINON 14 2.8
Gabe Balazs Photo (external link)
Nature Shots Portfolio (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lenty007
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
221 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 21
Joined May 2006
Location: Ghent, Belgium
     
Dec 02, 2013 13:10 as a reply to  @ gabebalazs's post |  #11

Your wish is ... :D

Besides, you could be wright!


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gabebalazs
Bird Whisperer
Avatar
7,640 posts
Gallery: 52 photos
Likes: 1060
Joined Nov 2008
Location: Toledo, OH
     
Dec 02, 2013 13:15 |  #12

thank you. Seems soft. Maybe I should do a test too :)

If you have time, could you try the same test with a closer object, and using manual focus in live view?


SONY A7RIII | SONY A7III | SONY RX10 IV | SONY RX100 | 24-70 2.8 GM | 70-200 2.8 GM | 16-35 F/4 | PZ 18-105 F/4 | FE 85 1.8 | FE 28-70 | SIGMA 35 1.4 ART | SIGMA 150-600 C | ROKINON 14 2.8
Gabe Balazs Photo (external link)
Nature Shots Portfolio (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Copidosoma
Goldmember
1,017 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 68
Joined Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton AB, Canada
     
Dec 02, 2013 16:55 as a reply to  @ gabebalazs's post |  #13

sooo,

wouldn't a more "fair" test be a FF with an extender against a crop with the bare lens?

I'm not exactly sure what is being compared here.

And x2 on the 2MP final image size comment above.


Gear: 7DII | 6D | Fuji X100s |Sigma 24A, 50A, 150-600C |24-105L |Samyang 14 2.8|Tamron 90mm f2.8 |and some other stuff
http://www.shutterstoc​k.com/g/copidosoma (external link)
https://500px.com/chri​s_kolaczan (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gremlin75
Goldmember
Avatar
2,727 posts
Gallery: 4 photos
Likes: 216
Joined Feb 2011
Location: Detroit, MI
     
Dec 02, 2013 17:15 |  #14

Copidosoma wrote in post #16496240 (external link)
I'm not exactly sure what is being compared here.

Agreeded. Putting a TC on a lens is going to degrade that lenses image quality. FF sensors do have an IQ advantage over APS-C sensors, I doubt anyone will argue that. Add a 2x TC to the APS-C body lower the f-stop which in turn means a slower shutter speed and I'm no longer sure what you're trying to compair!




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Snydremark
my very own Lightrules moment
18,483 posts
Gallery: 47 photos
Likes: 1521
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Issaquah, WA USA
     
Dec 02, 2013 17:21 |  #15

There's quite a bit of softening and fringing going on there, that I'd suspect the TC in. Try doing just the APS-C + 400 and FF + 400 + crop and let's see how those compare instead.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

1,783 views & 0 likes for this thread
Optical versus digital crop - I'll be damned ...
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member was a spammer, and banned as such!
1184 guests, 335 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.