Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 24 Nov 2013 (Sunday) 13:56
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Canon 5D III vs. Nikon D800E Test

 
pwm2
"Sorry for being a noob"
Avatar
8,626 posts
Likes: 3
Joined May 2007
Location: Sweden
     
Dec 02, 2013 21:26 |  #406

sega62 wrote in post #16495751 (external link)
And yes, people were shooting before the Sony sensor!
Great pics, and will still do with the Digic 5 +

I rest my case!

Don't rest your case. You failed the main task. You failed explaining how people managing to use older cameras relates to having - or not having - a need for more DR. People did transport themselves in cars 100 or 30 years ago too. But how many car buyers demands that the car manufacturers should offer such cars today?

Why rest your case ignoring all the shots possible with film but not possible with a modern Canon? While the Exmor sensor already in existence is greatly increasing the range of photos possible...


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
Speedlite 420EZ | Speedlite 580EX | EF 1.4x II | EF 2x II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Pagman
I just hold the thing :-)
Avatar
9,101 posts
Gallery: 2069 photos
Likes: 10165
Joined Dec 2011
     
Dec 02, 2013 21:31 |  #407

I would say without any hesitation that my D200 has no problem with DR(it has plenty) just it has image noise to go with it.


P.


Some stuff.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
butterfly2937
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
6,964 posts
Gallery: 226 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 625
Joined Apr 2009
Location: Connecticut USA
     
Dec 02, 2013 21:32 as a reply to  @ post 16496886 |  #408

David,
It that the Otus 1.4/55 you have on pre-order? That sounds like an amazing lens. I anxiously await your pictures with that lens!


_______________
flickr (external link)
GEAR

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Pagman
I just hold the thing :-)
Avatar
9,101 posts
Gallery: 2069 photos
Likes: 10165
Joined Dec 2011
     
Dec 02, 2013 21:36 |  #409

I think an easy solution to bring this debate to a closure ("time gentleman please") is to agree that nikon and canon are both good-both bad for the same but toataly different reasons....


P.


Some stuff.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
pwm2
"Sorry for being a noob"
Avatar
8,626 posts
Likes: 3
Joined May 2007
Location: Sweden
     
Dec 02, 2013 21:36 |  #410

gabebalazs wrote in post #16495850 (external link)
Thanks for the compliments.
This forum always provides such great entertainment :) I stated my experience, sorry to be so ignorant, I think I'll just give this whole photography thing up ;)

Oh and Ansel Adams is rolling in his grave.

Why would Ansel roll in his grave? He had banding and was happy with it? Your comparison with guitars failed badly, when you noted that it took experts to hear the difference. It doesn't take experts to see the difference in photos that does have a number of extra stops of dynamic range, when the scene actually needs that range.

Look at the photos in the original post and repeat again that only an expert would see the difference. You sound believable claiming that?


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
Speedlite 420EZ | Speedlite 580EX | EF 1.4x II | EF 2x II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
David ­ Arbogast
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
11,472 posts
Gallery: 36 photos
Likes: 8261
Joined Aug 2010
Location: West Point, Georgia
     
Dec 02, 2013 22:00 |  #411

butterfly2937 wrote in post #16496921 (external link)
David,
It that the Otus 1.4/55 you have on pre-order? That sounds like an amazing lens. I anxiously await your pictures with that lens!

It is indeed! :D Hope it comes in time for the holidays. When I have it, I plan to get a thread going in the Lens Image Archive - unless someone beats me to it. It will probably will be the loneliest image thread on POTN. :lol:


David | Flickr (external link)
Sony α7R II | CV 12mm, FE 12-24mm, Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm, Sigma 35mm F/1.2, Loxia 85mm, Batis 85mm, Batis 135mm

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sega62
Senior Member
Avatar
756 posts
Likes: 8
Joined Aug 2011
     
Dec 02, 2013 22:07 |  #412

Pagman wrote in post #16496886 (external link)
Like the difference between a Ibanez fretless 2+2 head bass and a Fender, both good just different acustic set ups, or a Roland juno 6 and a Ply 800 synths, both good in thier day just differnt wave forms, and pich harmonics.

P.

Yes, and don,t you forget who plays on them, makes a huge difference.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jocau
Goldmember
Avatar
1,838 posts
Gallery: 11 photos
Likes: 338
Joined Mar 2012
Location: Belgium
     
Dec 02, 2013 23:23 |  #413

pwm2 wrote in post #16496848 (external link)
I think that you have kind of forgotten about film - photographers have had access to a larger dynamic range for quite a long time...

Next thing is that not all Canon sensors have banding at such a high level.

A tool is a tool. The guys racing 100 years ago were happy about their cars because they were the best available. But today's drivers wouldn't be happy. You always have to compare with the current state and the current competition when deciding what is reasonable to expect.

If you do not include market progress into the equation then you basically wants a world in stasis. Should all progress stop at the current level?

Then you'll never be happy with anything you buy (a camera, a car, a house, you name it). Because within a short period of time something new and better will exist...


550D | EF-S 18-55mm F/3.5-5.6 IS | EF 50mm F/1.8 II | EF 70-200mm F/4L IS | Speedlite 580EX II | LumoPro LP180 | Gitzo GT3541XLS | Arca-Swiss Monoball Z1 SP | ONA Bowery (black, non-leather) (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CanonVsNikon
Senior Member
255 posts
Joined Jan 2013
     
Dec 02, 2013 23:29 |  #414
bannedPermanent ban

jocau wrote in post #16497161 (external link)
Then you'll never be happy with anything you buy (a camera, a car, a house, you name it). Because within a short period of time something new and better will exist...

You say it like it's a bad thing. Remember progress is good




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
HoodedJustice
Member
Avatar
53 posts
Joined Nov 2013
     
Dec 02, 2013 23:30 |  #415

jocau wrote in post #16497161 (external link)
Then you'll never be happy with anything you buy (a camera, a car, a house, you name it). Because within a short period of time something new and better will exist...

There are older canon cameras that don't have this issue. It's not an issue of latest and greatest, it's an issue of faulty design.


Canon 5d Mark III. 35L, 85L, 135L holy trinity!
less gear more shooting! bw!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
pwm2
"Sorry for being a noob"
Avatar
8,626 posts
Likes: 3
Joined May 2007
Location: Sweden
     
Dec 03, 2013 01:37 |  #416

jocau wrote in post #16497161 (external link)
Then you'll never be happy with anything you buy (a camera, a car, a house, you name it). Because within a short period of time something new and better will exist...

No, that isn't true. Microscopic changes aren't relevant - there is always a question of hysterese, I.e. how big improvements before it matters.

I'd say the majority of people considers a 5 year old car to be "current technology" while a 20 yo car is not. Unless debating Formula 1, in which case last seasons car is old.

Houses??? Houses comes in very different shapes. But do you really consider them a good example of technological progress. The majority of houses built today could just as well have been built 20 years ago. It is more a question of architecture than technical inovations. Now and then, you can read articles about special houses being built. But they are basically prototypes - it takes 5-20 years to conclude the actual outcome.

In the end, the dynamic range difference debated here is huge. It is not a puny, theoretical value that is hard/impossible to see. It's just that an unedited photo will not tell - it's a huge improvement waiting for a professional photographer to come and make use of.

An event photographer can't just go home if the sun is glaring at noon, and hope that it will be overcast tomorrow. When a flash isn't possible, then people in hats will have their faces totally hidden in shadow. Extra DR and you will be able to see who it is. Same with landscape photography if you aren't able to come back day after day until it's overcast.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
Speedlite 420EZ | Speedlite 580EX | EF 1.4x II | EF 2x II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jonneymendoza
Goldmember
3,788 posts
Likes: 383
Joined Apr 2008
     
Dec 03, 2013 03:56 |  #417

David Arbogast wrote in post #16477860 (external link)
I think I have my answer already with the A7R...no need to wait for Canon. Even if Canon releases a "3D" high MP body, it is reasonable to have doubts that that sensor will be competitive with the Sony sensor in the D800E and A7R with regards to DR and shadow noise.

That said, I want Canon to surprise me! :D

Just no. if i can use all my canon lenses on a sony A7R then fine but we cant so we are stuck with waiting for canon to produce something similar,


Canon 5dmkIII | Canon 85L 1.2 | Sigma 35mm ART 1.4|Canon 16-35mm L 2.8 |Canon 24-70mm L f2.8 | Canon 70-200mm F2.8L MK2 | Canon 430EX MK2 Flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jocau
Goldmember
Avatar
1,838 posts
Gallery: 11 photos
Likes: 338
Joined Mar 2012
Location: Belgium
     
Dec 03, 2013 06:17 |  #418

pwm2 wrote in post #16497367 (external link)
No, that isn't true. Microscopic changes aren't relevant - there is always a question of hysterese, I.e. how big improvements before it matters.

I'd say the majority of people considers a 5 year old car to be "current technology" while a 20 yo car is not. Unless debating Formula 1, in which case last seasons car is old.

Houses??? Houses comes in very different shapes. But do you really consider them a good example of technological progress. The majority of houses built today could just as well have been built 20 years ago. It is more a question of architecture than technical inovations. Now and then, you can read articles about special houses being built. But they are basically prototypes - it takes 5-20 years to conclude the actual outcome.

In the end, the dynamic range difference debated here is huge. It is not a puny, theoretical value that is hard/impossible to see. It's just that an unedited photo will not tell - it's a huge improvement waiting for a professional photographer to come and make use of.

An event photographer can't just go home if the sun is glaring at noon, and hope that it will be overcast tomorrow. When a flash isn't possible, then people in hats will have their faces totally hidden in shadow. Extra DR and you will be able to see who it is. Same with landscape photography if you aren't able to come back day after day until it's overcast.

New houses can't be compared to 20-year-old houses when it comes down to thermal/building insulation. The difference is huge. There are also differences regarding home automation.

There have always been workarounds for the DR problem. It's not because the Sony EXMOR sensor is here that those workarounds suddenly don't work anymore. Sure, there will always be a picture that's impossible to take in a single shot without having a sensor that can capture a broad DR, but that will also be the case for the Sony EXMOR sensor. Everything has its limits.


550D | EF-S 18-55mm F/3.5-5.6 IS | EF 50mm F/1.8 II | EF 70-200mm F/4L IS | Speedlite 580EX II | LumoPro LP180 | Gitzo GT3541XLS | Arca-Swiss Monoball Z1 SP | ONA Bowery (black, non-leather) (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jdizzle
Darth Noink
Avatar
69,419 posts
Likes: 56
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Harvesting Nano crystals
     
Dec 03, 2013 06:32 |  #419

jocau wrote in post #16497616 (external link)
New houses can't be compared to 20-year-old houses when it comes down to thermal/building insulation. The difference is huge. There are also differences regarding home automation.

There have always been workarounds for the DR problem. It's not because the Sony EXMOR sensor is here that those workarounds suddenly don't work anymore. Sure, there will always be a picture that's impossible to take in a single shot without having a sensor that can capture a broad DR, but that will also be the case for the Sony EXMOR sensor. Everything has its limits.

This is where you're incorrect. I've done blends with proper exposure to foreground and background and the Canon file didn't have the extra DR I needed.

A sample from my Canon 1Ds 3. Two images layered with no filters used. Just tripod and cable release. If you can only understand why the current Canon's don't have that extra DR I'm looking for. :/

IMAGE: http://www.darklightimaging.com/img/s1/v19/p442960327-5.jpg



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
RedCatPhoto
Goldmember
Avatar
1,487 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Likes: 385
Joined Jun 2013
Location: SUI
     
Dec 03, 2013 06:44 |  #420

David Arbogast wrote in post #16496998 (external link)
It is indeed! :D Hope it comes in time for the holidays. When I have it, I plan to get a thread going in the Lens Image Archive - unless someone beats me to it. It will probably will be the loneliest image thread on POTN. :lol:

Not sure it'll beat the 50mm L 1.0 in terms of loneliness :p :D


JM - facebook (external link) - website (external link) - gear list

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

48,821 views & 0 likes for this thread
Canon 5D III vs. Nikon D800E Test
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Edenfieldr
937 guests, 365 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.