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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 02 Dec 2013 (Monday) 10:18
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do I NEED a 50?

 
sjones
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Dec 03, 2013 13:31 |  #46

SkipD wrote in post #16498547 (external link)
The newbie who sticks with a fixed focal length lens often misses one very important thing about composition and that's control of the perspective in the images he/she creates. If an inexperienced photographer has only one fixed focal length lens, the tendency will be to "zoom with the feet" and it's impossible to optimize the composition with that technique.

Do I really need to list the number of exceptional photographers who used only primes, often using only a couple of focal lengths? Perspective is NOT always that important depending on the type of photography pursued, or, as I should restate this, I prefer the perspective that I get with my chosen focal length. If manipulation of perspective is essential for your preference and style, that's more than fine, no argument here.

"The tendency will be to "zoom with the feet" and it's impossible to optimize the composition with that technique."

Henri Cartier-Bresson used a 50mm, and rarely a 35mm and 90mm, rarely! In terms of excellent composition, he is unsurpassed!

As for newcomers, we're talking about experimentation as learning methods, which is not the same as being shackled to only method for the rest of their lives.

OK, this time for good, I'm out.


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medicdude
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Dec 03, 2013 15:19 |  #47

Holy crap. Didn't mean to start all this. I have another shoot on Sunday. We'll use the 50 a bit and reevaluate. Thanks for everyone's input


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taemo
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Dec 03, 2013 19:28 |  #48

SkipD wrote in post #16498547 (external link)
The newbie who sticks with a fixed focal length lens often misses one very important thing about composition and that's control of the perspective in the images he/she creates. If an inexperienced photographer has only one fixed focal length lens, the tendency will be to "zoom with the feet" and it's impossible to optimize the composition with that technique.

we may be shooting with fixed FL lens but that doesn't mean we only have one lens ;)
I have 5 standard FL that I use, 21mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 90mm and I know exactly when to use them, i usually travel with 2-3 lens with me but on a casual day walk i like to stick with the 35mm or 50mm

another way to look at it is when shooting with a fixed focal length you actually learn about perspective control and composition, mainly because once you are comfortable with your fixed FL you can pre-visualize your shoot, you can anticipate a moment without having to bring the camera to your face and IMO that's how you become a better photographer.

a photographer that is moving around with his feet, whether with a prime or a zoom, will yield better shots than a photographer that has been standing in the same spot for hours and just zooming in/out with his lens.
a fixed FL is just a method of training a photographer to move


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medicdude
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Dec 03, 2013 21:27 |  #49

if anyone cares, I ordered the Sigma 17-50 f2.8 EX OS from Amazon. I'm going to see if I can justify replacing my 18-35 and 50 with it. If not, amazon has a great return policy.


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Charlie
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Dec 04, 2013 00:18 |  #50

taemo wrote in post #16499479 (external link)
a photographer that is moving around with his feet, whether with a prime or a zoom, will yield better shots than a photographer that has been standing in the same spot for hours and just zooming in/out with his lens.
a fixed FL is just a method of training a photographer to move

the problem with noobies is that they don't know perspective, they know convenience. More often than not, I see this as normal behavior. Cant count the number of times dslr users from my own family, stand really close, popup flash, and snap off a shot. Would be a good idea to learn wide/normal/telephoto independently for a while before using zooms.


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tat3406
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Dec 04, 2013 00:45 |  #51

hairy_moth wrote in post #16497940 (external link)
I agree about the Macro, Canon does not have a macro zoom (that I am aware of). I suspect there are some third party macro zooms around, I don't know the quality.

As far as wide angle, Canon makes a few pretty good wide angle zooms:
  • EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM
  • EF 17-40mm f/4L USM
  • EF 8-15mm f/4L Fisheye USM
Unless you need the speed of, say the EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM, I doubt there is much that can be done with that that cannot be done with the zooms. The difference in IQ will be negligible, I haven't compared the distortion, but i doubt that the difference is significant.

I agree that 20 years ago or so, maybe as recently as 10, the IQ difference between primes and zooms was significant. With lenses coming out like the new 24-70 -- it is difficult to justify the need for a prime other than the extra stops in low light.

For most situations, you can get the separation you need with f/2.8 by planning you shot.


Canon have a 24-70 F4 Macro can do macro up to 1:0.7.
Prime lens normally have bigger aperture or smaller size and cheaper.


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Dec 04, 2013 01:07 |  #52

Yes. End of story.

As someone who was stuck using a 50mm for about four years, yes, you do need one. The limitations really helps build composition skills tremendously.


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stpix
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Dec 04, 2013 01:09 |  #53

Perhaps we should limit ourselves to only one ISO setting too. Sort of like film photography.

Makes as much sense as limiting yourself to using a prime.


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quadwing
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Dec 04, 2013 01:50 |  #54

stpix wrote in post #16500162 (external link)
Perhaps we should limit ourselves to only one ISO setting too. Sort of like film photography.

Makes as much sense as limiting yourself to using a prime.

...I'm down with that.


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kin2son
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Dec 04, 2013 02:27 |  #55
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taemo wrote in post #16499479 (external link)
a photographer that is moving around with his feet, whether with a prime or a zoom, will yield better shots than a photographer that has been standing in the same spot for hours and just zooming in/out with his lens.
a fixed FL is just a method of training a photographer to move

I couldn't agree more.

Giving a newbie a prime will FORCE them to move.

Zoom is meant to give you multiple 'classic' prime focal length (24/35/50/85mm) so that you don't need to change lens for them. The correct way of using a zoom is first determine the focal length (thus the resulting perspective) you want, set the focal length on the zoom and then frame the shot by moving your feet.

That will never ever happen if you give a newbie a zoom, meaning they won't and can't learn.


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quadwing
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Dec 04, 2013 02:38 |  #56

kin2son wrote in post #16500221 (external link)
I couldn't agree more.

Giving a newbie a prime will FORCE them to move.

Zoom is meant to give you multiple 'classic' prime focal length so that you don't need to change lens for it. The correct way of using zoom is first determine the focal length (thus the resulting perspective) you want, set the focal length on the zoom and then frame the shot by moving your feet.

That will never ever happen if you give a newbie a zoom, meaning they won't and can't learn.

Exactly the reason there are focal length markings on the lens!


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tat3406
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Dec 04, 2013 03:46 |  #57

kin2son wrote in post #16500221 (external link)
I couldn't agree more.

Giving a newbie a prime will FORCE them to move.

Zoom is meant to give you multiple 'classic' prime focal length (24/35/50/85mm) so that you don't need to change lens for them. The correct way of using a zoom is first determine the focal length (thus the resulting perspective) you want, set the focal length on the zoom and then frame the shot by moving your feet.

That will never ever happen if you give a newbie a zoom, meaning they won't and can't learn.

Yes. when A lot of friend always try my camera mount with prime lens, they were complained why you buy a expensive camera without zoom capability. :lol:
My composition improved a lot after purchase a first prime.


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taemo
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Dec 04, 2013 08:27 as a reply to  @ tat3406's post |  #58

medicdude wrote in post #16499755 (external link)
if anyone cares, I ordered the Sigma 17-50 f2.8 EX OS from Amazon. I'm going to see if I can justify replacing my 18-35 and 50 with it. If not, amazon has a great return policy.

congrats on the 17-50, it's definitely a nice compromise between your 2 lens. if you are not happy with it the sigma but like that versatile range, I would suggest trying the Tamron or even the Canon 17-55.

stpix wrote in post #16500162 (external link)
Perhaps we should limit ourselves to only one ISO setting too. Sort of like film photography.
Makes as much sense as limiting yourself to using a prime.

Yup, I actually never understood why people like to use auto-ISO.
I always manually set my ISO based on lighting and location, unless a situation dictates that you need to maintain a constant aperture and shutter speed.


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ramair455
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Dec 04, 2013 10:00 |  #59

For the novice - zoom lenses, make easy to take thoughtless pictures, since you just turn the ring until something fits from wherever you're standing.

With fixed lenses, we have to move around. Having to move around gets us mobile and looking for the best point-of-view, not simply the best angle-of-view from where we're already standing. The best angle is rarely the point from which we just happen to see something interesting the first time.

Anything that gets us moving around and seeing things from different angles leads to better pictures.




  
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stpix
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Dec 04, 2013 11:51 |  #60

taemo wrote in post #16500589 (external link)
congrats on the 17-50, it's definitely a nice compromise between your 2 lens. if you are not happy with it the sigma but like that versatile range, I would suggest trying the Tamron or even the Canon 17-55.

Yup, I actually never understood why people like to use auto-ISO.
I always manually set my ISO based on lighting and location, unless a situation dictates that you need to maintain a constant aperture and shutter speed.

I didn't mean manual ISO, I meant set it at an ISO and leave it there until you are done shooting. That is the way you did it with film. No changing ISO in the middle of a roll.


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do I NEED a 50?
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