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Thread started 01 Dec 2013 (Sunday) 19:42
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Full Auto Mode in good conditions.

 
DwainRowe
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Dec 03, 2013 12:30 |  #46

Ralph III wrote in post #16497302 (external link)
I however have no qualms of sticking the thing into "Full Auto" on occasion and under good conditions. It's absolutely silly for some to suggest doing so somehow makes you lesser of a photographer!

Wow, Ralph. That's an impassioned response. It provoked me to go back and read all of the responses in this thread again.

What I saw was a pretty balanced discussion from folk who stated what modes they like to use and why. I didn't see anyone belittle anyone else. There was even more helpful discussion of what each of the modes do or don't do. I think that we can all agree that we are all on a photographic learning path, picking up lessons from our own technical use or from others here on this forum.

Personally, I use M most of the time, but that's how I started many years ago since there was no auto anything back then. I also use Av fairly frequently and Tv more rarely. Heck, I even shoot with my iPhone 5 sometimes.

I think using any mode that suits what you're photographing is fine with me. My goal as a photographer is to improve my imaging and learn something new every time I shoot. So for me, as long as I am aware of what the limitations are to whatever mode (auto or manual) that I am using, I can compensate for those using my own personal "automatic" brain. That's why I asked about auto ISO, a tool that I have not used before.

However, and also for me, I mainly shoot M because it makes it much easier for me to ETTR, remember 12% neutral (thanks, Elie), and use other new tools specific to DSLRs that I have learned here.

tzalman wrote in post #16497625 (external link)
Since I became converted to Magic Lantern I have become a terrible shill for them, so I'll ask for your indulgence before hand...

...So yeh, I use automation, but it is automation that does what I want it to do.

Thanks again Elie for helping teach this old dog new tricks. I'm still waiting for the stable ML for the 6D... or maybe I missed that release.

Dwain


6D | EF 17-40 f/4 L | EF 70-200 f/4 L IS | EF 50mm f1.4 USM -|- Rebel T2i | EF-S 17-55 IS | Σ 10-20 f3.5 EX DC | Σ 70-300 4-5.6 DG Macro (Yes, I am cheap) | Speedlite 580EXII | YN622c
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facedodge
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Dec 03, 2013 16:06 |  #47

tzalman wrote in post #16497625 (external link)
Since I became converted to Magic Lantern I have become a terrible shill for them, so I'll ask for your indulgence before hand.
ML's Auto-ETTR in effect turns your M into a P, but the "program" it uses is not calibrated to set a 12% exposure but rather an ETTR exposure. It is as much automation as is the P mode, but it is intelligent automation and I use it frequently. The way it works is that you set the camera to M, turn on Live View and initiate Auto-ETTR (I have it set so the the Set button triggers it). ML identifies the brightest pixels in the LV display and overrides whatever is set in M (speed, f-stop and ISO) to set the exposure that will place those pixels 0.5 stop below clipping (in the Raw capture). Just like P, the combination of parameters that it gives may not be what you want, so you can change it. For instance, It may give me 40, f5.6, 100, but I want more DoF so I make the aperture f8 and the speed 20 (which is too slow). Another feature in ML lets you tie together parameters in M, the same way speed and aperture are tied in P, except that I have shutter speed tied to ISO. I change the ISO to 800 and the speed automatically goes up to 160.

So yeh, I use automation, but it is automation that does what I want it to do.

I'll have to play with this technique. Thanks!


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jefzor
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Dec 04, 2013 00:11 |  #48

I'd never use green box. It brings up the pop up flash at random times, doesn't let you exposure compensate, doesn't let you pick AF points, doesn't let you shoot RAW.

I'm not being elitist here. If it gets you the results, it doesn't matter what stance you used, but green box just has too many flaws. I recommend you use P with auto ISO if you want to shoot automatic.


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apersson850
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Dec 04, 2013 02:45 as a reply to  @ jefzor's post |  #49

The new firmware for the 1DX, anticipated in January 2014, will offer automation of the exposure time/aperture combination in M mode, in such a way that if you use a lens like the EF 70-300 mm f/4-5.6L IS USM, and with the lens set to 70 mm, you select f/4 and 1/500 s. Then you zoom to 300 mm, making the lens' largest opening f/5.6, the camera will automatically adjust the combination to f/5.6 and 1/250 s, instead of just force the aperture to f/5.6.

To me, this feature seems so obvious that I wonder why they didn't come up with it before? Besides, even if I understand that it's lenses like the one mentioned above and the new EF 200-400 mm f/4L IS USM, which by the flick of a switch changes into an EF 280-560 mm f/5.6L IS USM, that have stirred up the request for such a feature, I still think this would be more appropriate in the other end of the EOS segment, since user's of cameras like the 700D and similar are more likely to acquire lenses with variable largest aperture than those mainly using L-class lenses.

I would presume that at Canon they forgot to make it possible for the users to choose if he wants to adjust the exposure time or the ISO.


Anders

  
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vengence
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Dec 04, 2013 09:40 |  #50

jefzor wrote in post #16500103 (external link)
I'd never use green box. It brings up the pop up flash at random times, doesn't let you exposure compensate, doesn't let you pick AF points, doesn't let you shoot RAW.

I'm not being elitist here. If it gets you the results, it doesn't matter what stance you used, but green box just has too many flaws. I recommend you use P with auto ISO if you want to shoot automatic.

Doesn't let you shoot raw? I agree about the other points, but I could have sworn it does. Or at least on a t4i it does. I hand it off to my wife in green box mode all the time.




  
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facedodge
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Dec 04, 2013 09:41 |  #51

vengence wrote in post #16500774 (external link)
Doesn't let you shoot raw? I agree about the other points, but I could have sworn it does. Or at least on a t4i it does. I hand it off to my wife in green box mode all the time.

Green Box mode is Wife Mode for me too :D


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stpix
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Dec 04, 2013 11:14 |  #52

tzalman wrote in post #16496187 (external link)
Hey, you too? I got my C3 in 1958.
And a meter from Spirotone . I wonder if anybody else remembers Spirotone.

Started 35 mm with a Sears (Petri? Ricoh?) rangefinder with no light meter in the 60's. I just taped the little diagrams Kodak included in each box of film showing recommended exposures for bright sun, cloudy etc to the back of the camera. Worked well and you did get to learn the basics.

I also have a cheap 400 mm preset stuck back on the shelf. $70 about 1980 at Wolf Camera. It actually has a t-mount and playing around I have attached to my T3i with a Canon adapter. Not what you would call good but not as bad as you might think. Not ready to trade in my 400 5.6 L ;)

Green box is certainly a long way from a manual diaphragm preset!


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apersson850
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Dec 04, 2013 11:25 as a reply to  @ stpix's post |  #53

Green box on earlier cameras didn't allow RAW capture, but now it does.


Anders

  
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rrblint
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Dec 04, 2013 21:30 as a reply to  @ apersson850's post |  #54

Yes, the newer cameras(at least as far back as T2i) will allow RAW shooting in green box mode, provided that a creative zone mode is engaged first, RAW shooting is chosen, then the camera is switched into green box mode.


Mark

  
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Ralph ­ III
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Dec 05, 2013 01:30 |  #55

[DwainRowe;16498451]Wo​w, Ralph. That's an impassioned response. It provoked me to go back and read all of the responses in this thread again.

What I saw was a pretty balanced discussion from folk who stated what modes they like to use and why. I didn't see anyone belittle anyone else...]

Hey Dwain,
I never stated anyone was specifically belittling anyone else. You however cannot read through the thread and say the tone doesn't imply you are a lesser photographer for resorting to Full Auto.

I humbly point out a few posts...

1) full auto...is essentially turning a DSLR into a simple snapshot camera.

2) What's full auto??:p

3) GreenBox is for handing your camera to someone else so they can take a snapshot...

4) I only put it on greenbox mode when handing my camera to a DSLR noob...

I'm not attempting to undermine anyone but simply pointing out how such may come across to the OP or others. I've been an avid/amateur photographer since the mid 80's. This includes some professional work as well as numerous weddings. Despite that, I'm still capable of making mistakes in judgment when the modern camera might have gotten it correct. They are quite sophisticated these days!

One poster states his camera typically gets it wrong 99% of the time when in Full Auto mode. Really? I'd be interested in knowing what camera he is referring to in order to discourage others from getting one.

I've had/have a 20d, 30d and 40d. I can tell you that under good conditions (as the OP was inquiring) those cameras will get exposure correct 99% of the time. I simply don't shoot in Full Auto because most of my shots are challenging (Sports/lighting) or otherwise I want to control depth of field (portraits). I wouldn't hesitate in putting it into Full Auto though under good conditions and minus any creative need.

Ansel Adams would certainly get a chuckle out of some comments. He once stated, "any photographer worth his salt could make some beautiful things with pinhole cameras." ;)

God Bless,
Ralph


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Nick_Reading.UK
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Dec 05, 2013 09:47 |  #56

when I had my 350D I used the Green Box.. Then got my 60D and learnt how to use it properly, since then I NEVER use the green box.. I use the Manual setting 90% of the time but now I am starting thinking I should use aperture Priority (AV) more as sometimes I need to shoot quicker..

I tell the wife, if shots are over/Under exposed to just switch to the greenBox ;-)a


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facedodge
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Dec 05, 2013 09:52 |  #57

Ralph, Ansel Adams, I think, would not advocate full auto mode. He was about working hard for your photos and not using your gear as an excuse. Mastering your gear first before looking for new gear. I think this would be in line with full manual.


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Dec 05, 2013 12:34 |  #58

I let the camera use auto wb and use the metering as I shoot av a lot, but I also shoot raw always so not overly worried about wb and I bias the cameras metering regularly because I do prefer av for what I shoot.

That said, I don't think it is belittling to say there is little point in having a dslr investment to use green box mode, it is like buying a Ferrari to drive in 25mph roads.


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facedodge
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Dec 05, 2013 12:40 |  #59

I don't see anything wrong with using the camera in green box mode. If you are a wealthy person and want the best photos but don't wish to learn about the mechanics of photography, then by all means, buy a 5D3 or 1DX and put it in green box mode. Even someone who knows nothing about photography will get better photos with at 5D3 and 85L on green box mode than that same person will get with an iphone or point and shoot.

If you care enough about photography to be on a forum and ask for pointers, then you should probably care enough to learn the basics. If you know the basics, there is no point in using green box mode other than the random quick snapshot or passing it to an non-photographer. Av, P, and Tv are just as easy to use and allow the photographer to have control of depth of field, motion blur, noise, etc.

That's my opinion anyway.


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Ralph ­ III
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Dec 05, 2013 16:00 |  #60

facedodge wrote in post #16503526 (external link)
Ralph, Ansel Adams, I think, would not advocate full auto mode. He was about working hard for your photos and not using your gear as an excuse. Mastering your gear first before looking for new gear. I think this would be in line with full manual.

Facedodge,

You've completely missed the point and as Ansel Adams was making. He used many camera's which were quite a bit less "sophisticated" than we have today. The point is, the camera doesn't matter so much as the photographer.

A pin camera is what it is. It's a box/can with a hole in it for crying out loud in which you use it to simply expose film to light. It is as simple as you can get and would be closer to full auto than full manual, btw. Because ISO and Aperture as well as focus are all pre-determined already. You just lift a flap to expose the film for a self-determined amount of time. If you were to use a light meter and/or scale, even that would be an automatic action. I recall our class making one in elementary school while studying the human eye. HERE's (external link) Kodak's instruction on making one out of a coffee can for those who might be interested.

Ansel Adams stated, "...any photographer worth his salt could make some beautiful things with pinhole cameras." . He was conveying that it wasn't the sophistication of the camera that mattered. You can't get any more simple than a pin hole camera.

I just think it silly for folks to suggest the modern camera isn't capable of rendering superior images in full auto or that they are somehow beyond that. Again, in normal conditions with no creative desire, the modern camera is quite adequate in rendering excellent images or in getting exposure correct. It's no biggie...

Take care,
Ralph

P.S. This is Ansel Adams entire quote.

"Well, people have asked me what kind of cameras I used. It's hard to remember all of them. Oh I had a box Brownie #1 in 1915, 16. I had the Pocket Kodak, and a 4 x 5 view (external link), all batted down. I had a Zeiss Milliflex. A great number of different cameras. I want to try to get back to 35 millimeter, which I did a lot of in the 1930s. Using one of the Zeiss compacts. In the 20s and into the 30s, I would carry a 6-1/2 x 8-1/2 glass plate camera -- that was a little heavy. And I had a 4 x 5 camera, then of course we went to film, to film pack, things became a little simpler.

"But William Henry Jackson and [Carleton] Watkins were all over this country with much bigger cameras. Wet plate cameras. And I believe it was Jackson's series of pictures on the top of Mt. Hoffman, with wet plates (external link), that is, having to take the darkroom, cook the plates on the spot, expose and process them immediately. For the wet plate process you have to complete the development of the image before the emulsion dries. And when the dry plate came in it was a great godsend. I guess we all did the best as we could. If we had very heavy cameras we simply didn't go so far or take so many pictures. Knowing what I know now, any photographer worth his salt could make some beautiful things with pinhole cameras."


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Full Auto Mode in good conditions.
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