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Thread started 25 Sep 2013 (Wednesday) 12:21
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IMac, Mac Mini, or Mac Pro?

 
jrafael
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Oct 10, 2013 11:48 |  #46

Quick shopping list from newegg:

1 ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner $19.99
1 Corsair Carbide Series 500R $129.99
1 Western Digital WD Black 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" $89.99
1 TP-LINK TL-WDN4800 Dual Band Wireless N900 PCI Express Adapter $42.99
1 ASUS GTX670-DC2-2GD5 GeForce GTX 670 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 $294.99
1 CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX650M 650W $99.99
1 G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 (PC3 12800) $79.99
1 GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-D3H LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 $134.99
1 Cooler Master Hyper T4 - CPU Cooler $19.99
1 Intel Xeon E3-1225 V2 Ivy Bridge 3.2GHz (3.6GHz Turbo) $224.99

-- Subtotal: $1,137.90

+ $19.99 for original Snow Leopard DVD (http://store.apple.com …mac-os-x-106-snow-leopard (external link))

+ $29.99 for Mountain Lion (app store purchase)

-- $1187.88

Compared to base model Mac pro @ $2,499.00 http://store.apple.com​/us/buy-mac/mac-pro (external link)

I'm saving at least $1311.12 plus more ram ( 8gb vs 6gb base model) almost twice as powerful video card (http://www.hwcompare.c​om …tx-670-vs-radeon-hd-5770/ (external link)).

And you can save even more if you shop around with other online vendors/shops and/or already have components that you can reuse (case, mouse, keyboard, fans, hard drives, etc)




  
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Hen3Ry
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Oct 10, 2013 12:31 |  #47

Tony-S wrote in post #16358911 (external link)
It's pure fantasy to suggest a £850 hackintosh is equivalent to a Mac Pro.

Yup. As I've noted, I recently bought a Craigslist Mac Pro 4,1 dual quad, single drive, 8GB for 700 bucks, not a scratch on it. Upgraded to 16GB for a hundred bucks, and added this PCIe card (external link) and two OWC 120 GB 6GB/sec SSDs I already owned. At 2.26 GHZ X 16 threads it runs rings around a 16 GB 2500K OC'd to 4 GHz and the same SSD. It boots faster, shuts down faster, opens large PSD files faster, closes them faster, generates previews and HDRs faster; in short, it does everything faster, and I don't need to worry about video cards or kexts, or making audio come out of the Displayport, or take any special precautions with updates. Its firmware can be updated to Mac Pro 5,1, which means I can upgrade to any CPU supported by Mac Pros up to dual six ways, or 3.3GHz quads. Matched pairs of these can easily be found on eBay.

Yes, you can build a PC that you can load OSX on, and it will work....most of the time. But my experience over the last few years (and I currently have three quad processors running OSX) is that one of the things that is fundamental in using a computer for either music or photography is that when the computer requires you to deal with it rather than the music or image, you will be less productive. I have never had a hackintosh that didn't require more attention than a macintosh.

If you want to play with computers, that's fine. But if you want to process images, and you have a hackintosh, you may find yourself playing computer technician much more often.


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Tony-S
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Oct 10, 2013 14:13 |  #48

jrafael wrote in post #16360657 (external link)
Quick shopping list from newegg:

Once again, it's about equivalence. Most of the items on your list are not equivalents, e.g., lesser cpu, lesser video card, crap case, non-ECC RAM, mobo that can only take 32GB, no multitouch mouse, no keyboard. Your build isn't equivalent to a Mac Pro.


"Raw" is not an acronym, abbreviation, nor a proper noun; thus, it should not be in capital letters.

  
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jrafael
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Oct 10, 2013 15:06 |  #49

Tony-S wrote in post #16360999 (external link)
Once again, it's about equivalence. Most of the items on your list are not equivalents, e.g., lesser cpu, lesser video card, crap case, non-EEC RAM, mobo that can only take 32GB, no multitouch mouse, no keyboard. Your build isn't equivalent to a Mac Pro.

http://store.apple.com …uct=MD770LL/A&s​tep=config (external link)

I don't know what mac pro you are looking at but the base model only supports up to 32gb ram as well, now the video card I picked its superior to the one offered by apple. and for the rest that you mention (mouse, keyboard, case) you can always use original apple mouse/keyboard if you want and for case thats very subjective but at least you have a choice...

I revised my pick and swaped the ram for ECC ram, changed mobo and cpu.

1- Crucial CT2KIT51272BB1067Q 8GB DDR3 $99.99
1- SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SAE-O ATX $215.99
1- Intel Xeon E3-1245V3 Haswell Server CPU (3.4GHz, 8MB L3 Cache, Quad-Core) $289.99
1- CORSAIR Hydro Series H55 $64.99
1- ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner $19.99
1- Corsair Carbide Series 500R $129.99
1- Western Digital WD Black 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" $89.99
1- TP-LINK TL-WDN4800 Dual Band Wireless N900 PCI Express Adapter $42.99
1- ASUS GTX670-DC2-2GD5 GeForce GTX 670 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 $294.99
1- CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX650M 650W $99.99
1- Snow Leopard DVD $19.99
1- Mountain Lion $29.99

Subtotal: $1398.88

Extras

1 - Apple Magic Mouse $69.00
1 - Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad - English (USA) $49.00

~ Total $1516.88 vs $2,574.00 mac pro with 8gb ram

That's still a difference of +/- $1057.12




  
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Tony-S
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Oct 10, 2013 18:03 |  #50

jrafael wrote in post #16361113 (external link)
http://store.apple.com …uct=MD770LL/A&s​tep=config (external link)

I don't know what mac pro you are looking at but the base model only supports up to 32gb ram as well,

Nope. It will take 48 gb of ECC RAM. I thought you knew what you were talking about?

now the video card I picked its superior to the one offered by apple.

Nope. That video card you pointed to only has single-link HDMI and DisplayPort, thus they are limited to 1920x1200 resolution and cannot drive 27" or 30" displays at their native resolutions (2560 x 1440, 2560x1600). Only its DVI port is dual-link, but it doesn't transmit audio. The Mac Pro's standard video card has dual Mini DisplayPort connectors that can drive two 30" displays (2560x1600) and transmit audio to each concurrently. The dual-link DVI port will drive a third 30" display, too (but without audio).

You're also missing a few other things, too. How are you going to run the Magic Mouse without bluetooth in your box? Also, how noisy is it going to be? The Mac Pro is just about dead-silent. I have yet to build a PC that didn't have annoying noise coming out of it all the time because of the crap fans they put on the enclosures. Does your case have cableless hard drive connectors? Can it be opened by pulling on a single lever?

and for the rest that you mention (mouse, keyboard, case) you can always use original apple mouse/keyboard if you want and for case thats very subjective but at least you have a choice...

This isn't about choice. It's about you claiming you can build a Mac Pro-equivalent hackintosh for half or less than half the cost of a Mac Pro:

jrafael wrote in post #16360288 (external link)
even after adding the rest of the needing componets (gpu, psu, etc) the new mac pro its going to cost probably 2x or more than that.

Total $1516.88 vs $2,574.00 mac pro with 8gb ram

You're already past the half-way point and you're still not to an equivalent build.


"Raw" is not an acronym, abbreviation, nor a proper noun; thus, it should not be in capital letters.

  
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jrafael
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Oct 17, 2013 09:50 |  #51

Tony-S wrote in post #16361510 (external link)
Nope. It will take 48 gb of ECC RAM. I thought you knew what you were talking about?

Nope. That video card you pointed to only has single-link HDMI and DisplayPort, thus they are limited to 1920x1200 resolution and cannot drive 27" or 30" displays at their native resolutions (2560 x 1440, 2560x1600). Only its DVI port is dual-link, but it doesn't transmit audio. The Mac Pro's standard video card has dual Mini DisplayPort connectors that can drive two 30" displays (2560x1600) and transmit audio to each concurrently. The dual-link DVI port will drive a third 30" display, too (but without audio).

You're also missing a few other things, too. How are you going to run the Magic Mouse without bluetooth in your box? Also, how noisy is it going to be? The Mac Pro is just about dead-silent. I have yet to build a PC that didn't have annoying noise coming out of it all the time because of the crap fans they put on the enclosures. Does your case have cableless hard drive connectors? Can it be opened by pulling on a single lever?

This isn't about choice. It's about you claiming you can build a Mac Pro-equivalent hackintosh for half or less than half the cost of a Mac Pro:

You're already past the half-way point and you're still not to an equivalent build.

Sorry for then late reply, here is a new revised list:

SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SLL-F-O $159.99
Intel Intel Xeon E3-1270V3 Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 $343.99
Crucial 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered $99.99
APEX TX-381-C Black Steel Micro ATX Case $32.99
Rosewill CAPSTONE-750 750W $99.99
Western Digital WD Black 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" $89.99
TP-LINK TL-WDN4800 Dual Band Wireless N900 PCI Express Adapter $42.99
ZALMAN CNPS80F $16.99
MSI R7850-2GD5/OC Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 $149.99
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner $19.99
IOGEAR GBU521 Bluetooth 4.0 adapter $12.99
Apple Magic Mouse $69.00
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad - English (USA) $49.00
Snow Leopard DVD $19.99
Mountain Lion (app store purchase) $19.99

$1227.87 vs $2,574.00 mac pro with 8gb ram

That's ~ $1346 little less than half than a mac pro, with Better processor (faster, more energy efficient), better video card.

You can probably save even more with rebates, combo purchases etc. the point is IT can be done.

The only downside that I see in my list is that the motherboard supports up to 32gb so I guess that will be a deal breaker for you.

Thanks for playing along.




  
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Tony-S
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Oct 17, 2013 10:19 |  #52

Now with Mavericks, the Mac Pros support 64 GB (single processor) and 128 GB (dual processor) of RAM.

So, you can get close, but you can't get to a Mac Pro unless you spend a lot more money.


"Raw" is not an acronym, abbreviation, nor a proper noun; thus, it should not be in capital letters.

  
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Hen3Ry
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Oct 17, 2013 13:26 as a reply to  @ Tony-S's post |  #53

If I were building a Mac Hack (again) I'd use a Gigabyte MB. In fact, I'd go here and just buy what they say to buy (external link). All the work has been done for you.

The idea that you can build a PC that's "equivalent" to a Mac Pro is actually pretty funny, especially when you start by lowballing the price of the individual parts. The one thing that a Mac Pro is not is "low price." Not out the door, and certainly not internally, and there's a reason for that, which includes the fact that a Mac Pro is not a "personal computer," it is a real live workstation, intended to be such, and not constructed out of the cheapest possible parts.

You're starting off in the wrong direction to get where you're going. But as the White King said, if you don't know where you're going, it doesn't matter which direction you start off in.


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MCAsan
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Oct 19, 2013 08:39 |  #54

Exactly. Go with one the well proven configurations on TonyMac.




  
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phantelope
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Dec 10, 2013 13:07 |  #55

I've read up on building my own, but probably won't tackle that anytime soon and I don't really think I need the macpro power for photo editing and family videos.

So I'm back looking at iMac and MacMini. Love the iMac, just not sure I can live with the glossy surface. That aside, which one would be the better solution? Is there one?

I'd get the $799 MacMini, a 27 inch screen (Dell I think) and upgrade the ram myself. Thinking hybrid drive. There's a slightly faster MacMini too, but the difference doesn't seem great enough to justify the upgrade price.

Anu future problems I might have with video cards? I know nothing about those, but believe at least the mini has the video stuff built onto the motherboard, so it can't be replaced. Is that true for the iMac too?

iMac is less clutter, but one or two more cables won't make much of a difference, I have all photos on external drives anyway. Can the iMac run a 2nds screen? AFAIK the mini can run two 27inch monitors, just needs some extra cable for the 2nd one.

Apple store has been of little help so far, and it's way too chaotic in there to have a detailed conversation anyway. I'll probably call Apple to order and figure things out, but would appreciate any additional input, especially if somebody here has both or used both. I prefer to buy something that will last me for a good while (macbook pro is 6+ years old) so I don't have to replace too soon.

I'll be running LR, PS CS6, and have a copy of Premiere Pro CS6 as well, for the videos.

Thanks again!


40D, 5D3, a bunch of lenses and other things :cool:

  
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Dec 10, 2013 14:41 |  #56

An iMac is a Mini with a built in screen. Neither is very upgradable past hard drives and ram. Ram is only upgradeable on the better iMacs as well I believe as the it's soldered in on the lower end models.

On a mini you can do a fusion drive on your own if you want to go that way. Just order a hardware kit from OWC and get a SSD drive. It's not too difficult and there are a ton of tutorials.

I find LR5 good on the Mini except when you use a lot of adjustment brushes and it gets a bit laggy but that's a problem no matter what system you use, CS6 works fine, and I run Final Cut X no problem. I run 3 external 3tb USB3.0 drives as well so disc access is pretty fast and would be even faster with thunderbolt drives.


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Hen3Ry
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Dec 10, 2013 15:34 |  #57

phantelope wrote in post #16516584 (external link)
I've read up on building my own, but probably won't tackle that anytime soon and I don't really think I need the macpro power for photo editing and family videos.

So I'm back looking at iMac and MacMini. Love the iMac, just not sure I can live with the glossy surface. That aside, which one would be the better solution? Is there one?

I'd get the $799 MacMini, a 27 inch screen (Dell I think) and upgrade the ram myself. Thinking hybrid drive. There's a slightly faster MacMini too, but the difference doesn't seem great enough to justify the upgrade price.

Anu future problems I might have with video cards? I know nothing about those, but believe at least the mini has the video stuff built onto the motherboard, so it can't be replaced. Is that true for the iMac too?

iMac is less clutter, but one or two more cables won't make much of a difference, I have all photos on external drives anyway. Can the iMac run a 2nds screen? AFAIK the mini can run two 27inch monitors, just needs some extra cable for the 2nd one.

Apple store has been of little help so far, and it's way too chaotic in there to have a detailed conversation anyway. I'll probably call Apple to order and figure things out, but would appreciate any additional input, especially if somebody here has both or used both. I prefer to buy something that will last me for a good while (macbook pro is 6+ years old) so I don't have to replace too soon.

I'll be running LR, PS CS6, and have a copy of Premiere Pro CS6 as well, for the videos.

Thanks again!

Before you talk to them, read this (external link). It goes into (understandable) detail about what you really need need and can use for performance on Photoshop and other Adobe products.

As I write this I'm taking a lunch break from upgrading my dual quad 2.26 GHz Mac Pro CPUs to 3.33 Ghz. The new processors come in matched pairs, and I paid $400 bucks for both.


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Hen3Ry
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Dec 11, 2013 13:14 as a reply to  @ Hen3Ry's post |  #58

And here are the results

IMAGE: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uF90dUx1bIU/Uqi5Bxng2QI/AAAAAAAABYI/iYnaXV6P814/s822/Screen%2520Shot%25202013-12-11%2520at%252011.04.44%2520AM.png

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phantelope
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Dec 11, 2013 13:53 |  #59

great link and info, thanks!


40D, 5D3, a bunch of lenses and other things :cool:

  
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Zeiterphoto
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Dec 11, 2013 18:59 |  #60

what about the graphics card in the mac mini...the hd4000 doesn't seem really good especially in photoshop...this is what stops me from buying a mac mini or maybe a retina macbook pro base 15 inch..


Canon 60D | Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM | Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II | Canon Flash Speedlite 430EX II | flickr (external link)

  
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