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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 16 Dec 2013 (Monday) 19:37
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Canon 7D or 6D

 
King22
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Dec 16, 2013 19:37 |  #1

I am thinking about selling my 7D with the 24-105L and buying the 6D combo (If I can get a good price on the 7D).

My main reasons for wanting to upgrade is for the better image quality, and ISO performance on the 6D, but my main problem is I would have to give up a fast shutter, and also AF.

Right now I dont have a certain field that I shoot, but I do enjoy BIF specifically Humming birds, but I have found, that I dont shoot them much. Also, on the 7D I feel my images (IQ) arent at the quality that I want them at when compared to some other pictures. Im not sure if its the Equipment, or if it is just me not having proper post processing skills. Also, on the 7D I Love the extra range I get on the crop, but I feel like I am limited in doors.

So I guess my question would be, is the IQ jump on the 6D a justifiable camera upgrade, and how much worse is the AF on the 6D compared to the 7D, I think I can deal without the Fast shutter, if the other two hold up.

If I were to get the 6D I would most likely have to take back the Sigma 50mm 1.4. The main reason I got it was for low light situations. I took some pics for a friend and it was in a restaurant downtown where I couldn't use a flash(not that I have one), but as the light went I realized really quickly that I needed a better low light solution. However, I feel I could do without it if the 6D performs good, or would just adding a flash help with IQ and low light situations, and I just never take pics where a flash isnt allowed.


Note: I can't afford to rent anything and test beforehand.


Pic I felt better ISO could have improved

IMAGE: http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8281/8ede.jpg


Cropped pic
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
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Best Pic from the restaurant
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IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
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Humming Bird, If I Read correctly I would need a flash to freeze the wings better?
IMAGE: http://imageshack.us/a/img841/342/94466710201259699679295.jpg

7D| Σ 50mm f/1.4 | 24-105 L

  
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TeamSpeed
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Dec 16, 2013 20:06 |  #2

The first thing I notice is that you need to watch your shutter speeds, especially on a crop body. For example the first photo is at 105mm at 1/30th even with IS. That seems quite too slow for that focal length. I am unable to check the other exif info on the png files.

It is easier to clean up noise at higher ISOs (provided proper exposure) than to fix motion movement.

Also if you would like some pointers on how to deal with higher ISO shots on the 7D, please click my mini-reviews link in my signature.

ISO 12800 action shot, just to give you some ideas...

IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Electronics/7D-Full-ISO-JPG-Suite-OOC/i-6c69fHh/0/X2/7dpotna-X2.jpg
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Electronics/7D-Full-ISO-JPG-Suite-OOC/i-ndqh6fV/0/O/madants8d.jpg

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Frodge
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Dec 16, 2013 20:11 |  #3

Team speed. How do you determine proper shutter speed for a given situation. As an example to my question, I the first photo if you were in ap would you continue to bump iso in order to get a dent shutter speed? I'm curious about this. I've noticed that faster shutter speeds come out better on crop, but am still waxing and waning on what part of the triangle I have to bump to achieve this.


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TeamSpeed
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Dec 16, 2013 20:13 |  #4

Frodge wrote in post #16532954 (external link)
Team speed. How do you determine proper shutter speed for a given situation. As an example to my question, I the first photo if you were in ap would you continue to bump iso in order to get a dent shutter speed? I'm curious about this. I've noticed that faster shutter speeds come out better on crop, but am still waxing and waning on what part of the triangle I have to bump to achieve this.

To overcome handshake on a crop, I try to go for at least 1/<focal length>, others will suggest also dividing by the crop factor (1 / <focal length * 1.6>;). Obviously IS helps with this part of shake, but I only allow for a stop or 2 at most slower shutter speeds. So at 105mm, I wouldn't go slower than 1/80th perhaps, 1/30th might cut it close, if you aren't not careful how you hold the 24-105L.

To stop action, I go for a minimum of 1/800th, up to 1/1250th. This means I change aperture if I can, then ISO.


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Dec 16, 2013 20:27 |  #5

Thanks for that formula. I pretty much do something similarly that. Thanks for the info.


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King22
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Dec 16, 2013 20:28 |  #6

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16532938 (external link)
The first thing I notice is that you need to watch your shutter speeds, especially on a crop body. For example the first photo is at 105mm at 1/30th even with IS. That seems quite too slow for that focal length. I am unable to check the other exif info on the png files.

It is easier to clean up noise at higher ISOs (provided proper exposure) than to fix motion movement.

Also if you would like some pointers on how to deal with higher ISO shots on the 7D, please click my mini-reviews link in my signature.

ISO 12800 action shot, just to give you some ideas...

Thank you for the reply, I will check out the suggested links.

The 2nd pic was shot at 1/80
3rd 1/25
4th Im not sure

I never really thought about bumping my shutter, at the restaurant I was shooting as slow as 1/6 at iso 3200 because I was scared of unrecoverable Noise. The 7D goes up to 6400 ISO with a high/extended of 12800. When on 12800 it is so grainy when I review it on the camera that I disabled it completely, but I will try some test shots out at 12800 and see what I can recover in PS.


7D| Σ 50mm f/1.4 | 24-105 L

  
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TeamSpeed
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Dec 16, 2013 20:34 |  #7

King22 wrote in post #16533000 (external link)
Thank you for the reply, I will check out the suggested links.

The 2nd pic was shot at 1/80
3rd 1/25
4th Im not sure

I never really thought about bumping my shutter, at the restaurant I was shooting as slow as 1/6 at iso 3200 because I was scared of unrecoverable Noise. The 7D goes up to 6400 ISO with a high/extended of 12800. When on 12800 it is so grainy when I review it on the camera that I disabled it completely, but I will try some test shots out at 12800 and see what I can recover in PS.

There are some settings you can make in camera, then take those resulting files and run them through LR or Noiseware to clean some things up. You have to decide whether you can deal with noise better than blurry pictures.

Over 4 years, I have shot over 10K pictures at ISOs of 3200 or higher. You quickly get a handle on settings and processing to make that work for you when you shoot that much. :)

All 6400

IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Animals/In-the-Wild-Yonder/i-wVtW2Tv/0/XL/IMG_5814-XL.jpg
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Animals/In-the-Wild-Yonder/i-4Gxvpnj/0/XL/7D1_7035-XL.jpg
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Church-and-Family/Church-Events/CRCC-Nails-of-Hope-2010/i-m4tM3hG/0/XL/IMG_1196-XL.jpg
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Church-and-Family/Church-Events/CRCC-Nails-of-Hope-2010/i-zW2Xn7M/0/XL/IMG_1591-XL.jpg

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Dec 16, 2013 21:02 |  #8

How often do you folks use flash? Pop-up vs hotshoe? I'm curious.


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Dec 16, 2013 21:06 |  #9

Never unless I am doing senior portraits... many times flash isn't allowed for what I shoot.


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Dec 16, 2013 21:12 |  #10

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16533103 (external link)
Never unless I am doing senior portraits... many times flash isn't allowed for what I shoot.

Interesting. I've always shot myself without flash for the most part. I've been reading a lot of threads about hotshoe flash and cannot come to the decision of whether or not I really need one or not. How can you ascertain when flash is needed? For the most part ive not used on every much.


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King22
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Dec 16, 2013 21:16 |  #11

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16533014 (external link)
There are some settings you can make in camera, then take those resulting files and run them through LR or Noiseware to clean some things up. You have to decide whether you can deal with noise better than blurry pictures.

Over 4 years, I have shot over 10K pictures at ISOs of 3200 or higher. You quickly get a handle on settings and processing to make that work for you when you shoot that much. :)

All 6400

For noise reduction I used a fiter in photoshop that is apart of the topaz labz bundle. called Topaz DeNoise. I have LR 5 now, but I havent messed with it much, would you recommend LR or Noiseware as a better solution for Noise?

Thanks for all the tips everybody.


7D| Σ 50mm f/1.4 | 24-105 L

  
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Dec 16, 2013 21:22 |  #12

Everyone seems to love lightroom that uses it, I use noiseware due to its wide range of configurability and my own experience with it.


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TTuna ­ Eye
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Dec 16, 2013 21:24 |  #13

I am really liking the NIK collection for noise reduction on top of LR. Also, its output sharpener is money when printing.


6D, 60D, 100L, 24-105L, Sig 150-500, nifty 50, EF-S 60mm, Tam SP70-200 f/2.8 Di VC, Underwater gear T2i in a Watershot housing with Inon S2000 strobes.

  
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Dec 16, 2013 21:32 |  #14

King, LR is going to help you considerable with the noise. Check the option under the Detail tab on the develop module. I have mine set on an import preset to automatically bump the Noise Reduction to 30. I will usually change it up or down depending on the noise in the actual image. Anything at 800 or below, the 30 seems to be just fine. If I go above 800 ISO I might need to bump it more, but it just depends on the image. I am using a T3i, so it is not a great high ISO sensor anyway.
Topaz DeNoise is another tool, but I think you can use LR and DeNoise in combination to get you where you can shoot easily at 3200 or more if you need it.


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Dec 16, 2013 21:39 |  #15

I'm a huge fan of Lightroom, especially with the tools/tweaks they added in LR5.

All the way up to 6400, the noise can be dealt with quite easily, assuming you expose properly to begin with; if you have to raise darks/shadows at all, it can get sketchy fast.

This was taken at 6400 w/ the 7D and processed through LR:

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7147/6805511875_fb3645cd4d_b.jpg
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stanley_park_squirrel-5803 (external link) by Guideon72 (external link), on Flickr

- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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