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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 19 Dec 2013 (Thursday) 19:23
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SOTA resolution: Canon EF Lenses with Sony A7R?

 
Mike ­ K
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Dec 19, 2013 19:23 |  #1

The Sony A7R has only been in testor's hands a few short weeks, but nearly everyone praises it for excellent resolution and dynamic range, comparable to the Nikon 800e. This is not a surprise as the A7R uses the same 36 mp sensor without an anti-aliasing filter as does the Nikon. It is a mirrorless, full frame design, so has a very short registration distance; from the rear lens element to the sensor, and thus has the space to take an adapter that fits between a Canon EF lens and the Sony camera body. Nikons and other non-Canon bodies use a longer registration distance so you cannot fit a Canon lens on a Nikon body. For Canon owners happy with their Canon glass, but wanting the advantages of increased dynamic range and higher resolution of the 36 mp sensor, there has been a flurry of consideration of the Sony A7R adapted to EF mount leses.
http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/12476​61/0 (external link)
http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/12476​55 (external link)
There are several very long threads on Fred Miranda forum, among others, that discuss this possibility. I summarize the first listed above, as of Dec 19. Also there are several even longer threads for adapting other lenses to this camera on the Miranda Alternative Lenses forum.

1. Generally speaking, it works and one can realize improved resolution and increased dynamic range over any Canon body, especially at the center of the image. However there are caveats:

2. Lens adapters in general (use of non native lenses) can introduce mis-alignments

http://www.lensrentals​.com …episode-763-lens-adapters (external link)

http://www.lensrentals​.com …-tide-lifts-all-the-boats (external link)

In fact, it would appear based upon Roger's measurements that the lens adapter that doesn't introduce some misalignment is rare, although the impact, say of softer corners or asymmetrical softness, may not be noticed at all in actual use. For those looking for SOTA sharpness this is an all too frequently an issue seen by users. Typically the issue is comparing the identical high quality Canon mount lens on a 5DIII Vs an A7R. A typical result is that at the image center a substantial improvement is seen due to the higher resolution and dynamic range of the Sony sensor. But at the image edge/corner, that resolution improvement with the A7R is no longer seen and may even be worse. By purchasing additional units for test Fred Miranda is trying to deduce if this performance drop off is a sample to sample misalignment of bodies, adapters or lenses. It may not be any of these but a limitation in the micro-lens design of the Sony sensor. This may take several months to sort out.

3. These alignment issues are much more frequent in Wide Angle lenses, and full shifting with a WA Canon TSE design can also generate mechanical vignetting, not to mention problems with distortions, reduced contrast and softening in the corners, with or without extreme lens shifts. However this is not a universally reported IQ limitation. One user has found that adding non reflective material to the inside of the metabones adapter can minimize the loss of contrast due to internal reflections within the adapter.

4. There are only a few adapters that will allow full communication between the adapted Canon lens and Sony A7R body. The Metabones version III seems to work best. Even then, the AF is quite slow compared to a Canon 5DIII, say. This combination of A7R and EF lens is not for sports or wildlife shooters who track moving subjects.

5. Like all modern Canon dSLRs, the Sony A7 has the capability of electronic first curtain shutter, but the Sony A7R does not have this capability. For WA or normal focal lengths, this is probably not an issue but for those using telephoto lenses the lack of electronic first curtain will result is a small loss of sharpness due to vibration when the shutter speed is slow (perhaps 1/125-1/10 depending upon focal length). IS is not a cure all, and some users have reported IS as making the problems worse.

6. The Sony A7R captures a compressed, lossy RAW file. Some photographers have at least a potential issue with this format, but its impossible to know how much better a lossless RAW might be.

7. Physically most photographers seem to love the much smaller size of the mirrorless Sony bodies. It makes for potentially a much lighter, more compact kit. However the downside it that a bulky EF lens on an adapter can make tripod mounting of the adapted combination rather awkward. For example extra standoff clearance is needed for large diameter lenses and to allow lens movement clearance for lens shifting & rotating WA TSE designs.

So far the A7R/EF lens experiment is working, but the combination certainly will not please all shooters, particularly those who depend a lot upon AF. In fact the combination comes with a host of unique work-arounds, but the added dynamic range and resolution performance may be well worth it for some. At least we Canon owners hope that the adapted Sonys will induce Canon to introduce a high pixel body much sooner than it might otherwise.

Mike K


Canon 6D, 1DmkII, IR modified 5DII with lots of Canon L, TSE and Zeiss ZE lenses

  
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Jerobean
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Dec 19, 2013 20:02 |  #2

I still don't see why everyone is so excited about this camera.

if you want the sensor so bad, just go to nikon, get lenses that fit properly and you get autofocus as well.

the idea that having a small body makes your gear more compact when you are tossing on EF lenses is just laughable as well. this body isn't really any smaller than a rebel, which isn't that much smaller than my 6d. I love how people will crucify a rebel for being so small due to hands not fitting and balance issues, and everyone loses their mind for the sony.


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Mike ­ K
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Dec 19, 2013 20:35 |  #3

Canon makes some pretty good lenses unmatched by Nikon. For example the 24 TSE / 3.5 II is much better optically and mechanically than the corresponding Nikon, and the 17 TSE/4 is optically and mechanically equivalent to the 24 II and absent in Nikon mount. Also I have 7 other EF mount lenses, like three Zeiss ZE, that I would have to sell and repurchase in a Nikon mount. With a larger kit, changing brands is a significant outlay. I have an Canon IR modified body, so I want to keep some of the EF lenses in any case. On top of that the Nikon implementation of Live View is very poor, and Nikon dSLRs don't come with electronic first curtain. Considering my lenses, over half are MF only, thus LV is a priority and I only infrequently use AF. But regardless, the quality of the Canon TSE 17 and 24 II are unmatched and are reason enough to keep an eye on higher resolution adaptations for these lenses.
Mike K


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eddie3dfx
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Dec 20, 2013 07:41 |  #4

Jerobean wrote in post #16541162 (external link)
I still don't see why everyone is so excited about this camera.

if you want the sensor so bad, just go to nikon, get lenses that fit properly and you get autofocus as well.

the idea that having a small body makes your gear more compact when you are tossing on EF lenses is just laughable as well. this body isn't really any smaller than a rebel, which isn't that much smaller than my 6d. I love how people will crucify a rebel for being so small due to hands not fitting and balance issues, and everyone loses their mind for the sony.

It really changes the landscape for leica owners who want to use M glass or other lenses that don't mount on mirrored cameras... God I'd love to throw the summicron M 50mm on my 6d.
The leica M9 is about twice it's price... Though it does use an American made sensor! :)
Both are amazing cameras..
I'd love to pick up an a7r... not over a 6d or 5d 3

http://www.stevehuffph​oto.com …sony-a7r-by-didier-godme/ (external link)


Canon 6D, Canon L 24-105, Zeiss Distagon 28mm 2.8, Planar 50mm 1.4, Planar 85mm 1.4, Sonnar 135mm 2.8 & Zeiss Mutar 2x, Canon 50mm 1.8
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ptcanon3ti
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Dec 20, 2013 08:10 |  #5

Jerobean wrote in post #16541162 (external link)
I still don't see why everyone is so excited about this camera.

if you want the sensor so bad, just go to nikon, get lenses that fit properly and you get autofocus as well.

the idea that having a small body makes your gear more compact when you are tossing on EF lenses is just laughable as well. this body isn't really any smaller than a rebel, which isn't that much smaller than my 6d. I love how people will crucify a rebel for being so small due to hands not fitting and balance issues, and everyone loses their mind for the sony.

That's because you're not understanding the difference in IQ and dynamic range of the Sony sensor over the Canon sensors. Between the 36mp full frame Exmor sensor and having no AA filter the difference from Cannon's best is striking.

For me, I prefer a larger camera, so the size of the camera has nothing to do with it. It's just nice to dream about keeping current lenses yet having the best performing sensor out there.


Paul
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Body - Nikon D750
Lenses - Nikon 20 f1.8 / Nikon 16-35 f4 / Sigma 105 OS Macro / Sigma 24-105 f4 Art / Tamron 70-200 2.8 Di VC / Sigma 150-600 "S"

  
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EOS5DC
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Dec 20, 2013 08:26 |  #6
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What is SOTA?


Bodies: 60D, 6D.
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Flash: 580EX II, 430 EX II

  
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jbrackjr
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Dec 20, 2013 09:09 |  #7

state-of-the-art.


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EOS5DC
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Dec 20, 2013 10:09 |  #8
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Thank you.


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pulsar123
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Dec 20, 2013 10:33 |  #9

I think the DR importance is vastly exaggerated. I think the current Canon's 12-13 significant bits is totally sufficient for most types of photography. You can't display high DR images anyway - monitors only have 256 levels of gray, and paper has even lower DR. You have to do some tricks to very high DR images to fit them into the display's DR - tricks which most of the time make the image look fake. (shadow lifting, HDR style tone mapping etc.). I used to make very high DR images from a series of shots (HDR), and then I was stuck, as I couldn't produce a pleasing image to show on a low DR monitor.

In most cases, the need for high DR can (and should) be avoided by choosing your light properly. If you do landscapes, choose the time of the day when the contrast is naturally low (blue hour). You don't need high DR for portraiture (weddings, studio etc.). I doubt action photography needs that as well. It could only matter in documentary photography, when you usually cannot control the light, but I think for this type of photography some defects (like overblown highlights, or unresolved shadows) are acceptable.

I'd take higher ISO (lower noise) over larger DR any time. You can do so much more with higher ISO - e.g. freeze action under low light conditions.


6D, Tamron 24-70 f2.8 VC, 135L, 70-200 f4L, Laowa 15mm 1:1 macro, 50mm f1.8 STM, Samyang 8mm fisheye, home studio

  
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ptcanon3ti
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Dec 20, 2013 10:37 |  #10

Yeah....why have great DR at your disposal?  ???

What makes you think the Exmor sensor can't do high ISO?


Paul
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bobbyz
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Dec 20, 2013 19:06 |  #11

ptcanon3ti wrote in post #16542061 (external link)
That's because you're not understanding the difference in IQ and dynamic range of the Sony sensor over the Canon sensors. Between the 36mp full frame Exmor sensor and having no AA filter the difference from Cannon's best is striking.

For me, I prefer a larger camera, so the size of the camera has nothing to do with it. It's just nice to dream about keeping current lenses yet having the best performing sensor out there.

I thought he said get nikon which is same sensor and nice glass to go with and AF so much better than using say canon glass on the sony camera. Size, I don't know I thought erious photogs (landscapes) carried much bigger cams.

I haven't used sony with canon glass but hear it is like using EOS-M or even slower. Now for landscapes it doesn't matter. But then personally body being half the size is not that big of a deal either.


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Jerobean
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Dec 20, 2013 19:28 |  #12

ptcanon3ti wrote in post #16542061 (external link)
That's because you're not understanding the difference in IQ and dynamic range of the Sony sensor over the Canon sensors.

or, you know, where i say buy the Nikon which has the same sensor? and has lenses that can AF and don't require adapters. the system also has the highly regarded 12-24.

obviously no one has ever been able to take good lanscape photographs without all this dynamic range and 36mp sensor. :rolleyes:


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mystik610
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Dec 20, 2013 19:55 |  #13

Jerobean wrote in post #16541162 (external link)
I still don't see why everyone is so excited about this camera.

if you want the sensor so bad, just go to nikon, get lenses that fit properly and you get autofocus as well.

the idea that having a small body makes your gear more compact when you are tossing on EF lenses is just laughable as well. this body isn't really any smaller than a rebel, which isn't that much smaller than my 6d. I love how people will crucify a rebel for being so small due to hands not fitting and balance issues, and everyone loses their mind for the sony.

There are essentially two reasons people picked up the a7r:

-Exmore sensor with Canon lenses

-IQ that only a full frame camera can deliver, in a small, discrete (doesn't look like a "pro" camera) package.

I'm in the latter camp. I didn't rush out to buy the metabones adapter, as mounting a large lens really negates a lot of the size advantage you get from a mirrorless. But when mounting a native lens, the a7r is significantly more compact than your typical full frame DSLR. It's nice having FF IQ in a camera that can actually fit on a bar table next to my beer.

It's also nice not having to compromise is IQ, for the sake of having a compact body. I've had an EOS-M for a while, and bringing it out always felt like a compromise.

DSLR vs a7r size comparisons:


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bobbyz
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Dec 20, 2013 21:07 |  #14

For static shots I agree, sony is much smaller. Let us know how well it does for action/sports compared to that 5dmk3.:)


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Jerobean
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Dec 20, 2013 21:10 |  #15

I mean, I see your point, but the lenses you chose are a little bit deceiving. you chose a huge 1.4 prime. put a 2.8 prime on there and the size decreases significantly.

i'm not trying to knock your choice, hell, I wish I had the money laying around to try it. I just don't see how carrying a smaller DSLR is much more convenient than a slightly larger one. they both are bulky and large, don't fit in pockets, require bags, etc. what about the other lenses, or flash?


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SOTA resolution: Canon EF Lenses with Sony A7R?
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