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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 29 Dec 2013 (Sunday) 17:32
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Interoperability: 600EX, 580EX II, ST-E3, ST-E2?

 
Roxie2401
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Dec 29, 2013 17:32 |  #1

Ok, I'm confused.

1. Can a 600EX-RT control a 580EX II (optically)? And, the reverse?

2. Can an ST-E3-RT control a 580EX II?

3. Can an ST-E2 control a 600EX-RT?

When I say, "control", not just trigger but pass E-TTL information?

I keep reading that the ST-E3 will only work with the 600EX-RT. Does that really mean Canon has no way to allow any interoperability with their previous flagship 580EX II?

Maybe they should come out with an ST-E4-RT/O...............one that could control the 600EX & the 580EX II

But, do I also understand that the Yonguno 622C's actually can control both the 600EX and 580EX II with E-TTL data? (A 622C on camera, a 622C on a 600EX-RT and also a 622C on the 580EX II)

Seem strange if I'm correct that the ST-E3-RT wouldn't have been designed to work with the 600EX-RT (probably RT) and 580EX II (optically)?

Or, is this why I see a lot of 580EX II's being sold? Does this imply most are going to the new RT control?

If this has been discussed before, please just point me to a better thread or documentation that explains the interactions/capabilit​ies.




  
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Nick5
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Dec 29, 2013 18:11 |  #2

1. Yes
2. No
3. No

Back to Football.


Canon 5D Mark III (x2), BG-E11 Grips, 7D (x2) BG-E7 Grips, Canon Lenses 16-35 f/4 L IS, 17-40 f/4 L, 24-70 f/4 L IS, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II, 70-200 f/4 L IS, 70-200 f/4 L IS Version II, 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS Version II, TS-E 24 f/3.5 L II, 100 f/2.8 L Macro IS, 10-22 f3.5-4.5, 17-55 f/2.8 L IS, 85 f/1.8, Canon 1.4 Extender III, 5 Canon 600 EX-RT, 2 Canon ST-E3 Transmitters, Canon Pixma PRO-10 Printer

  
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Roxie2401
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Dec 29, 2013 18:22 as a reply to  @ Nick5's post |  #3

What about:

But, do I also understand that the Yonguno 622C's actually can control both the 600EX and 580EX II with E-TTL data? (A 622C on camera, a 622C on a 600EX-RT and also a 622C on the 580EX II).


And, based on the above answer, the 600EX-RT can optically control the 580EXII, but it (the 600EX-RT, itself) cannot be optically controlled?




  
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draderusa
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Dec 29, 2013 18:28 |  #4

I think Canon intends the 600EX-RT radio system to replace the optical system of the 580EXII's. The 600EX-RT will certainly work in optical mode as either a master or a slave with 580's. The 580 will just not work in the RT radio mode of the 600. As to this development being responsible for the number of used 580's for sale, I think you are correct. I traded my 580 for an additional 600 a number of months back, before it lost any more resale value. Others most likely have done the same. You are also quite correct that the Yongnuo YN-622C radio trigger will work beautifully with a mixture of 600's and 580's. That is what I used before I traded my 580. Yongnuo's recently released YN-E3-RT will only control 600 series flashes but will do it for half the cost of the Canon ST-E3-RT and provide extra functionality over the Canon model as well. I never used the old ST-E2 optical transmitter but I'd stay away from them at this stage of the game. From what I understand they had a number of functional limitations in actual use. As to Canon releasing a new radio/optical transmitter that will control 580's optically while controlling 600's via radio, I would certainly not hold my breath. Your best bet if you want to economically intermingle the new 600EX-RT units with existing 580EXIIs will be the YN-622C's. They will effectively turn the 600 into a 580 but they will allow you to control both at the same time.


Dave
EOS 7D Mark II, EOS T4i -- EFS 18-135 STM, EFS 10-22 USM, EF 40 f2.8 STM, EF 50 f1.4, 600EX-RT (3), YN-E3-RT, AD-360, FT16 (2), YN560II, YN622C (4), YN622C-TX

  
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Roxie2401
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Dec 29, 2013 18:45 as a reply to  @ draderusa's post |  #5

Dave,

Do I understand the 622C's are using "optical" to both the 600 & 580?


And, did I see that Yonguno is coming out with a 622C-TX - is that RF or optical and will it then have the same limitation as the ST-E3-RT - only able to control the 600 and not the 580?

Guess I'm looking for an RF/Optical combined unit - wishful thinking, the 580EX II is a good unit and I see no reason why it should not work together with the newer version, 600EX, too.




  
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draderusa
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Dec 29, 2013 18:46 |  #6

Roxie2401 wrote in post #16562652 (external link)
What about:

But, do I also understand that the Yonguno 622C's actually can control both the 600EX and 580EX II with E-TTL data? (A 622C on camera, a 622C on a 600EX-RT and also a 622C on the 580EX II).


And, based on the above answer, the 600EX-RT can optically control the 580EXII, but it (the 600EX-RT, itself) cannot be optically controlled?

Yes, the 622c's provide ETTL control with 600's and 580's both. You set remote 600's in optical mode when using them with 622c's. The 622c's actually use the Canon optical protocols and just convert it to radio transmission. That gets rid of all the issues outdoors and in bright light with optical control but does not provide any of the new functionality introduced with the new RT protocol. It is still the same Canon optical wireless system wrapped in radio goodness.;)

The 600EX-RT's can be controlled optically just as the 580EXII's can. That means they can even be controlled in optical mode by a pop up camera flash with master capability if one is available. You don't state what camera(s) you have so I can't be more specific.

Yongnuo is indeed promising a new YN-622-TX for Canon that many are looking forward too. Hopefully it will show up before mid 2014 but who knows. It will be the same radio implementation of the Canon optical control system as the current 622C transceivers. It will allow you to control your remote flashes from the transmitter itself without having to go into the camera's flash control menu system to make changes. It may possibly provide some new functionality as well but we won't know until it nears release. It will continue to work with both 600's and 580's and 430's etc.


Dave
EOS 7D Mark II, EOS T4i -- EFS 18-135 STM, EFS 10-22 USM, EF 40 f2.8 STM, EF 50 f1.4, 600EX-RT (3), YN-E3-RT, AD-360, FT16 (2), YN560II, YN622C (4), YN622C-TX

  
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Roxie2401
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Dec 30, 2013 07:51 |  #7

draderusa wrote in post #16562700 (external link)
The 600EX-RT's can be controlled optically just as the 580EXII's can. That means they can even be controlled in optical mode by a pop up camera flash with master capability if one is available. You don't state what camera(s) you have so I can't be more specific.

Dave,

If the 600EX-RT can be controlled optically, wouldn't the ST-E2 work as the Master and a 600EX-RT and 580EX II as slaves? An earlier answer seemed to indicate that the ST-E2 would not be able to control the 600 optically.

Oh, and I have a 5D3 and 7D - so, on the 7D the pop-up should control the 600EX-RT ---- but will it provide E-TTL info to the flash or just trigger?

Thanks for the detailed answers.

Tom




  
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draderusa
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Dec 30, 2013 08:31 as a reply to  @ Roxie2401's post |  #8

I have no first hand experience with the ST-E2 so I can't absolutely confirm its operability with the 600EX-RT. Maybe others can chime in on that. I can't see why it would not work though, since the 600 when set to optical wireless mode should look just like a 580 to the transmitter. The fact that the 600 in optical mode works with the YN-622C radio triggers would support that conclusion. Not to beat a dead horse, but I can see no real reason to purchase an ST-E2 in this market. There are too many full ETTL radio trigger systems like the 622's and others available quite inexpensively. Back when the ST-E2 was originally released that was not the case. If you happen to have one laying around I believe it should work just as effectively with a 600EX-RT as it ever did with a 580EXII, provided you set the 600 to optical wireless mode. When the 600 is set to radio wireless mode it can only be controlled by another camera mounted 600, a Canon ST-E3-RT, or a Yongnuo YN-E3-RT. Once Yongnuo releases their recently announced YN600EX-RT flash unit sometime in 2014, it too would be able to serve as a radio master for other 600 series flash units, either Canon or Yongnuo. See Elv's Flashhavoc blog for more info on this new equipment and on all things flash. It is an amazing resource. http://flashhavoc.com/ (external link)

The pop up flash on your 7D can provide full ETTL optical control of off camera flashes. This would include all flash units, both Canon and third party, that are Canon ETTL capable.

Update: Page 75 of the 600EX-RT manual confirms you can optically control it with an ST-E2.


Dave
EOS 7D Mark II, EOS T4i -- EFS 18-135 STM, EFS 10-22 USM, EF 40 f2.8 STM, EF 50 f1.4, 600EX-RT (3), YN-E3-RT, AD-360, FT16 (2), YN560II, YN622C (4), YN622C-TX

  
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agv8or
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Dec 30, 2013 10:27 |  #9

Roxie2401 wrote in post #16563805 (external link)
Dave,

If the 600EX-RT can be controlled optically, wouldn't the ST-E2 work as the Master and a 600EX-RT and 580EX II as slaves? An earlier answer seemed to indicate that the ST-E2 would not be able to control the 600 optically.

Oh, and I have a 5D3 and 7D - so, on the 7D the pop-up should control the 600EX-RT ---- but will it provide E-TTL info to the flash or just trigger?

Thanks for the detailed answers.

Tom

Only the 600EX-RT has the capability to function as a Master or a Slave in either the Wireless Optical or Wireless RT systems but not both at the same time (one or the other). The ST-E3-RT is Wireless RT only and at the moment it can only control the 600EX-RT. The ST-E2 can only function as a Master in the Wireless Optical system. The 550EX, 580EX and 580EX II can function as both Masters and Slaves in the Wireless Optical system only. The 420EX, 430EX and 430EX II can only function as Slaves in the Wireless Optical system only. The 7D, 60D etc.. have the capability for Wireless Optical transmission only. At present there is no way to mix the Wireless Optical and Wireless RT systems (it is a one or the other).

Yes the 7D popup flash can control both the 580EX and 600EX-RT through its Wireless Optical transmitter. When the 600EX-RT is set to the Slave Wireless Optical configuration it is controlled just the same as a 580EX. The 7D can control 3 groups of Slaves in either the Manual or ETTL modes. Video #15 in the following link deals with wireless flash using the 7D.

http://www.learn.usa.c​anon.com …ls/eos_7d_tutor​ials.shtml (external link)


Rand

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PacAce
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Dec 30, 2013 11:54 |  #10

Nick5 wrote in post #16562629 (external link)
1. Yes
2. No
3. No

Back to Football.

3 should read "No in radio wireless mode but Yes in optical wireless mode". ;)


...Leo

  
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The ­ Loft ­ Studios
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Dec 30, 2013 16:05 as a reply to  @ PacAce's post |  #11

Hmm, I thought the answer was YES to all three questions, BUT ONLY IN optical wireless mode.

EDIT: I was wrong, just checked my ST-E3RT and it doesn't have an optical IR front panel like the ST-E2, so it doesn't do IR Transmission, ONLY Radio...
So the answers to the OP questions are:

1.) YES
2.) NO
3.) YES

*but ONLY in the Optical IR Wireless Mode*


.


MARK

  
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Nick5
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Dec 30, 2013 19:26 |  #12

PacAce wrote in post #16564264 (external link)
3 should read "No in radio wireless mode but Yes in optical wireless mode". ;)

Correct you are.
I always tell people No in Number 3. When they hear Optical Wireless, they assume Radio. I then have to explain the difference and they just sigh? Don't ask me why?


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drvnbysound
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Dec 30, 2013 23:04 |  #13

Nick5 wrote in post #16565369 (external link)
Correct you are.
I always tell people No in Number 3. When they hear Optical Wireless, they assume Radio. I then have to explain the difference and they just sigh? Don't ask me why?

I'd like to ask them how well they see radio waves ;)


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Nick5
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Dec 31, 2013 01:15 |  #14

drvnbysound wrote in post #16565848 (external link)
I'd like to ask them how well they see radio waves ;)

BADADUMP!!! Pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....​.........


Canon 5D Mark III (x2), BG-E11 Grips, 7D (x2) BG-E7 Grips, Canon Lenses 16-35 f/4 L IS, 17-40 f/4 L, 24-70 f/4 L IS, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II, 70-200 f/4 L IS, 70-200 f/4 L IS Version II, 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS Version II, TS-E 24 f/3.5 L II, 100 f/2.8 L Macro IS, 10-22 f3.5-4.5, 17-55 f/2.8 L IS, 85 f/1.8, Canon 1.4 Extender III, 5 Canon 600 EX-RT, 2 Canon ST-E3 Transmitters, Canon Pixma PRO-10 Printer

  
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Interoperability: 600EX, 580EX II, ST-E3, ST-E2?
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