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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 26 Dec 2013 (Thursday) 18:05
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Stop screen shots??

 
sirquack
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Dec 27, 2013 13:54 |  #16

Peeaanuut - I think you nailed the problem. When I went to check out the guys gallery for one event it had something like 1500 images for the first day of the event. That is a lot of images to go in and edit. But if you are working on volume and even 10% buy one image that is still over $2000 for one days worth of shooting. He did not even offer any color/exposure corrected option on his page.
So you get what he offers, or you pay $50 for an image that you can work with. That just seems so crazy for the ability to correct something simple like exposure to get what was otherwise a decent image.


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peeaanuut
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Dec 27, 2013 14:12 |  #17

when i was shooting at some small track racing events I offered a SOC digital download option. It was exactly what it was, no adjustment, no crop, nothing. It was a cheaper option for some people than the edited digital download. I didnt offer prints at all so my time wasnt as cramped as someone offering prints.


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airbutchie - Joe was definitely right about adding contrast...
:)

  
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Thorrulz
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Dec 27, 2013 14:19 |  #18

I personally don't see how anyone can make a dime using smugmug, zenfolio or any other image hosting site. When I was nieve enough to think that if I shot an event and handed out cards where the images could be seen and purchased, I only sold a tiny fraction of some very saleable images.

Now once I let the customers know that if they wanted a card to help set up an appointment to view the images with me in person, my sales went way up. By keeping the images locked up until I could control how they could be viewed and with who I also could eliminate the grab and go type of traffic that doesn't make me a dime.

In short, if you don't give an individual a chance to steal your hard work, they won't.


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My sister, the professional baker and cake decorator once told me that my camera takes great pics. My reply was that I thought her oven baked great cakes.:lol:

  
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hoffainc
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Dec 27, 2013 15:10 |  #19

Thorrulz, I like your angle. Help me on how this can work for what I am doing. I take photos of sporting events my kids play in, example softball. I had two different methods to approach sales.

1) I downloaded the images on my iPad, went to the opposing team's parents, let them look through the iPad and order prints right then and there. I was getting revenue of about $100 a game.

2) I emailed the head coach of the opposing team the link to my Zenfolio site, the coach would forward to the team parents, and the parents would view and but prints. I get about $25 revenue per game for that strategy.

Strategy #1 made a few more bucks but seems like such a hustle to me. They never expected to be approached by someone to sell them photos and here I am with an iPad after the game.

My approach was to take photos of my own kids and make some money while I am at the game watching anyway. I get access to the field inside the fence and have some great shots.

Couple questions
1) How do I make more revenue for my time?
2) How do I do it in a way that doesn't feel like such a hustle (feels like I'm the guy selling TVs out the back of my truck).




  
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Thorrulz
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Dec 27, 2013 17:06 |  #20

I'll go into more detail once I get back to the pc, I'm on my smart phone right now.


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My sister, the professional baker and cake decorator once told me that my camera takes great pics. My reply was that I thought her oven baked great cakes.:lol:

  
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hoffainc
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Dec 27, 2013 17:55 |  #21

Good! I'm hoping for some profitable information :)




  
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vengence
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Dec 27, 2013 18:03 |  #22

You are going to pay him for the information, right?




  
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bespoke
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Dec 27, 2013 20:13 |  #23

Have you tried blacking out all their faces?


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jrafael
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Dec 31, 2013 07:46 |  #24

Some good info here:

http://parttimephoto.c​om …t-customer-series-part-9/ (external link)

I don’t write PROOF in massive half-opaque lettering across the center of every image, nor do I put a massive © dead center on every proof, nor do I write DO NOT COPY all over my site and images. Do you think your clients feel respected and valued when you take every blatant precaution to guard against their stealing your photos?

If your default impression of your market is that of a bunch of thieves and criminals hell-bent on pillaging your business into bankruptcy, I’ll tell you now, you’re in the wrong business. Go into IT security – you’ll do great, kid.

Letting my clients post their watermarked proofs on their MySpace and Facebook pages has multiplied the volume of my business. There’s little better endorsement marketing you can get than a senior or family using one of your images as their default profile photo for all their hundreds of friends to see.

Educate your clients in a respectful way, then give them credit that they’ll do the right thing. They’ll respect the fact that you’re one of the rare few photographers that doesn’t treat them like bank robbers. It’s an easy way to differentiate yourself from your competition.




  
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MattPharmD
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Dec 31, 2013 10:10 |  #25

jrafael- That's a pretty good article. However your quote comes across as a little out of context.

The author advocates 2 very important things that allow him to not truly watermark, but just logo his images. First, he advocates a live proofing session. This method makes it impossible for clients to screen shot your images. Second, he advocates that you collect a retainer in exchange for placing your clients images online. This would prevent your client from getting images for nothing as you have already collected money for them. Either way, his method applies well to portrait or small groups, but not very well to large events. It would be hard to have live sessions or collect retainers from 50+ people as is often the case with a sports event.


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jrafael
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Dec 31, 2013 10:27 |  #26

MattPharmD wrote in post #16566586 (external link)
jrafael- That's a pretty good article. However your quote comes across as a little out of context.

The author advocates 2 very important things that allow him to not truly watermark, but just logo his images. First, he advocates a live proofing session. This method makes it impossible for clients to screen shot your images. Second, he advocates that you collect a retainer in exchange for placing your clients images online. This would prevent your client from getting images for nothing as you have already collected money for them. Either way, his method applies well to portrait or small groups, but not very well to large events. It would be hard to have live sessions or collect retainers from 50+ people as is often the case with a sports event.

Thanks for pointing the quote part.

My take for large events would something like couple Laptop or even some el cheapo tablets, and have a slide show like the ones offered after thrill rides at amusement parks.

If you have access to electricity maybe setup a table and few digital frames with slide shows or use an ups to run the frames for the duration of the sale after each game, I don't think a digital frame will draw a lot of power from the ups, I assume the run time will be much better than of a full desktop.

like http://www.amazon.com …Photo-Frame/dp/B0031KF7QS (external link)
or http://www.amazon.com …ion-Digital/dp/B009A13IB8 (external link)

and you can still use the frames at your home or business after each event.

Another idea about power on the go will be something like this

http://www.amazon.com …ble-12-Volt/dp/B000XQ9MGE (external link)

paired with this

http://www.amazon.com …er-Inverter/dp/B003R7M4SY (external link)

for some portable power.




  
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peeaanuut
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Dec 31, 2013 10:34 |  #27

that can work with assistance. If your out shooting, you need someone to process the pics and possibly an additional person to speak to customers and find. The process has to be very quick. I imagine 4 people total.

1. Shooter (Maybe more if a big event)
2. Card Runner (Smaller cards to keep the process flowing)
3. tagger (Organizes and tags teams, game, numbers, etc)
4. Sales (Operates the sales to show the pics, etc.)

If you are paying these people, it can get very very spendy. If you are offering prints on the spot, then you also need someone to edit and print. Basically, you need to make a ton of money.


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http://joetakesphotos.​com/ (external link) : | : https://www.facebook.c​om/JKlingPhotos (external link) : | : https://twitter.com/jk​lingphotos (external link)
airbutchie - Joe was definitely right about adding contrast...
:)

  
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SOK
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Dec 31, 2013 21:13 as a reply to  @ post 16557544 |  #28

You can't stop screenshots.

There's a fundamental principle that people just don't seem to get (or accept) and that is: there are 2 types of people - those that will buy a photo, and those that won't, no matter how cheap/great it is.

Focus on the people that WILL. Forget about the people that won't.

Focus on finding profitable events. Take great images. Promote them through the right channels before, during and after the event. Make it as easy as humanly possible for people to buy your work. Work on volumes (of potential customers) and accept that it's a percentage game...many of your amazing shots will never go any further than being a watermarked thumbnail that nobody sees. Just be thankful you're not shooting film!

Thorrulz wrote in post #16557733 (external link)
I personally don't see how anyone can make a dime using smugmug, zenfolio or any other image hosting site.

I assure you it's possible. Probably 75% of my revenue comes through my Zen galleries. If you shoot the right events, use the right workflow, have the right agreements/support with the event organisers and generally be willing to work your arse off, it can work (and work quite well). Thankfully not everyone has the patience and tenacity to do it. :D

If it makes you feel any better...I shot an event last month. One of my Facebook "fans" FB messaged me asking about how to find their photos. In the time I could reply they had written back letting me know they'd already found them....and lo and behold, their FB profile pic was now a screenshotted copy of one of my watermarked pics. I literally laughed out loud...then got back to processing orders for paying customers.

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16555777 (external link)
The real question you need to be asking yourself is how to I produce a product/image that people value enough to pay for.

This is key. Focus on what works. Shoot the right events. Provide value. The sales will come, and the question of "how to stop people copying my work" will seem much less important!


Steve
SOK Images - Wedding and Event Photography Gold Coast (external link)

  
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NBEast
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Jan 01, 2014 14:00 |  #29

I suppose if your watermark had your business contact info you could just call it "free advertising".


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PhotosGuy
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Jan 02, 2014 09:55 |  #30

peeaanuut wrote in post #16557013 (external link)
here is something that one vendor does. its just watermarked to all hell.

http://www.caliphotogr​aphy.com …llery=26888#ima​ge=3662067 (external link)

Google does a good job of finding caliphotography, but it's not a legal © notice, & I think he'd be better off adding a phone # instead of his "Stolen Image" screed.

This guy told me that he'd made a "Great looking" 8X10" print from this 700px image. I told him to tell anyone he shows it to that I didn't make it for him. ;)
http://img.photobucket​.com …k-351_31.jpg?t=123583510​0 (external link)

I should have decreased the canvas at the top & added more to the sides to make it even harder for him to print it. ; D


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Stop screen shots??
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