Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 28 Dec 2013 (Saturday) 03:14
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Bounce Card I made... did I put it in the right position for portraits?

 
Shooting
Goldmember
Avatar
1,552 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Jan 2008
     
Jan 01, 2014 19:29 |  #31

smorter wrote in post #16568633 (external link)
I originally read this and thought - what is Shooting smoking?

But actually this is true in certain circumstances.

When a bounce card is pointing straight up, the larger the bounce card, the more light that will get reflected forward. There will be a point where the bounce card becomes so large that any forward reflected light will look very soft anyway, but for very small bounce cards, switching from a business card sized bounce card to an A4 sized bounce card will probably yield more harsher looking results due to the additional direct flash. Just a theory.

I don't use any bounce cards

if I had fast lenses I wouldn't either.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
WillMass
Senior Member
Avatar
663 posts
Likes: 2258
Joined Jan 2008
Location: Behind a lens somewhere
     
Jan 01, 2014 20:10 |  #32

hes gone wrote in post #16570122 (external link)
=he's gone;16570122]given the choice, I'd choose being the guy in the post below, over being the guy in the post above.

in fact, i'd rather miss the shot than be the guy in the plaid shirt. :lol:

Hahahaha agreed!


You can only fish for so long before you gotta throw a stick of dynamite in the water. :cool:
https://www.facebook.c​om/LiquidPixelsPhoto/ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
digital ­ paradise
How do I change this?
Avatar
14,962 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Likes: 8446
Joined Oct 2009
     
Jan 02, 2014 09:31 |  #33

Anyone remember the movie Dune? When they walked around these floating devices would follow people and provide light.

The tech is there. All these new small helicopter devices out there now. You just need a silent motors and a tracking system so it always follows you at a certain distance & angle. Put a big reflector on it and there you go. No extra weight, you always have bounce flash and you would be a hit at every event :)


Image Editing OK

Website (external link) ~ Buy/Sell Feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
smorter
Goldmember
Avatar
4,506 posts
Likes: 18
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
     
Jan 02, 2014 10:40 |  #34

hes gone wrote in post #16570122 (external link)
=he's gone;16570122]given the choice, I'd choose being the guy in the post below, over being the guy in the post above.

https://photography-on-the.net …hp?p=15799998&p​ostcount=5

WTF?

That guy is a noob - the lighting is fine in that building - all that natural light from the left hand side massive strip of windows gives perfect lighting. Just don't shoot backlit and it's fine


Wedding Photography Melbourneexternal link
Reviews: 85LII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
Combating camera shame since 1977...
Avatar
9,897 posts
Gallery: 15 photos
Likes: 2365
Joined Jun 2011
Location: The Uwharrie Mts, NC
     
Jan 02, 2014 10:51 |  #35

smorter wrote in post #16571677 (external link)
WTF?

That guy is a noob - the lighting is fine in that building - all that natural light from the left hand side massive strip of windows gives perfect lighting. Just don't shoot backlit and it's fine

Go big or go home!!!!

Actually, it's explained in post ten of that thread.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
canonphotog
Senior Member
796 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Nov 2005
Location: Texas (Greater San Antonio Area)
     
Jan 02, 2014 11:08 |  #36

digital paradise wrote in post #16569480 (external link)
Here is a design you may me interested in. I made one for less than $10. However like smorter I'm not much of a bounce card user.

http://super.nova.org/​DPR/DIY01/ (external link)

That general design looks like what Peter Gregg was advocating before he went commercial with his better bounce card (external link).

His (Peter Gregg) original video had the top flipping forward like Chuck Gardner's DIY01 images.

The benefit of that is it will push more light forward instead of just letting it loose on the sky.

Brea wrote in post #16558994 (external link)
I bought a big white fan at a dollar store than just attached elastic bands to it... I attached the fan to the SIDE of the flash, is this correct? I will be shooting an event tomorrow, hoping to just use it as fill flash OUTDOORS, help please :(

http://gyazo.com …234af31c2dfb469​a644b5.png (external link)

Tilting your flash head forward 45 degrees will help bounce more light forward. Not being able to use your flash as fill will create harsh shadows and unbalanced lighting, making everything behind your subjects dark, very dark, or black. This makes balanced light a must.

Since it's always a good idea to be familiar with your bounce method, here is another option (indoor flash), Neil van Niekerk's "Black Foamie Thing (external link)" and more. (external link)

I haven't utilized the black foamie thing yet, testing or otherwise, but I have several better bounce cards (self made, folding tops) that I keep with me in case the occasion warrants it.


-Ken
Gear List|Kenny D. Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
SFzip
Member
110 posts
Joined Jun 2007
     
Jan 02, 2014 14:07 as a reply to  @ canonphotog's post |  #37

Be aware that tilting the flash head forward 45° will introduce direct flash onto the subject. This means that the bounced light from the reflector will most likely be overpowered by direct flash.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
41,914 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2619
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Jan 02, 2014 17:52 |  #38

SkipD wrote in post #16559193 (external link)
At the very least, you should bend the reflector forward (toward the subject) about 45° so that it reflects most of the light toward the subject. The fact that the reflector is significantly larger than the bare flash means that the reflected light should provide softer shadows on and behind the subject.

A significant improvement would be gained by using a flash bracket that holds the flash (and your reflector) directly above the lens regardless of the camera's position ("landscape" vs "portrait" position).

SFzip wrote in post #16572159 (external link)
Be aware that tilting the flash head forward 45° will introduce direct flash onto the subject. This means that the bounced light from the reflector will most likely be overpowered by direct flash.

^

The angle of the reflector will change the relative contribution of forward-bounced vs. ceiling bounced light.


  1. The forward bounce, at minimum angle or straight up card, contributes a reflected catchlight seen in the eyes and also reduces the shadowing under the chin and eyesockets seen with pure ceiling bounce.
  2. At max angle with card at 45 degrees, virtually all of the light is bounced forward by the card, and since it is much larger in area than the native flash lens it will cast much softer edged shadows.


This illustration depicts what happens.
IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/Principles/bouncecard_zps779834f8.jpg
In case #1, the upright card lets most light go up to the ceiling to bounce down as very soft light, but some light is reflected forward to light under the chin and in the eye sockets and also provide catchlight in the eyes. Since it is several times larger in area than the flash lens, the forward light is a bit softer than what the flash lens provides.
In case #2, the 45 degree card deflects most light forward, but its overall area is several times larger so it is softer light than the native flash lens.
In between position 1 and position 2, are varying proportions of [ceiling bounce] : [forward card bounce]

You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Scatterbrained
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
8,420 posts
Gallery: 217 photos
Best ofs: 11
Likes: 4116
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Chula Vista, CA
     
Jan 02, 2014 18:03 |  #39

hes gone wrote in post #16570122 (external link)
=he's gone;16570122]given the choice, I'd choose being the guy in the post below, over being the guy in the post above.

https://photography-on-the.net …hp?p=15799998&p​ostcount=5

in fact, i'd rather miss the shot than be the guy in the plaid shirt. :lol:

If you're gonna do it, might as well do it right....
http://petapixel.com …g-edge-fashion-statement/ (external link)

or this...
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=0k1LK6pmozs (external link)

:lol: ;)


VanillaImaging.com (external link)"Vacuous images for the Vapid consumer"
500px (external link)
flickr (external link)
1x (external link)
instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
smorter
Goldmember
Avatar
4,506 posts
Likes: 18
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
     
Jan 02, 2014 23:24 |  #40

Wilt wrote in post #16572686 (external link)
[LIST=1]
  • The forward bounce, at minimum angle or straight up card, contributes a reflected catchlight seen in the eyes and also reduces the shadowing under the chin and eyesockets seen with pure ceiling bounce.
  • imo the shadowing under chins and eyesockets is caused by user error through incorrect bounce flash. A properly executed pure bounce flash should never cause shadowing.

    Unfortunately so many people incompetently execute pure bounce flash that it's created a market for bounce cards :(

    Great diagram btw!


    Wedding Photography Melbourneexternal link
    Reviews: 85LII

      
      LOG IN TO REPLY
    JohnCollins
    Senior Member
    Avatar
    539 posts
    Likes: 2
    Joined Nov 2005
    Location: Philadelphia area
         
    Jan 03, 2014 10:26 |  #41

    So many ideas in here ... and diagrams. Love the strobe umbrella backpack! :lol:

    I know your event has passed, and I'm no pro, but I thought I'd share these so you can see something I've used before with some success. I agree that the OP's first idea is just too unwieldy. It would drive me nuts. I also agree that with the tightness of the beam that close to the flash face, you need to tilt the reflector into the beam a bit.

    This takes about 2 minutes to devise, a simple card with a pinch in the middle I put a staple in to cause it to bend into the beam a little, then attach with a rubber band. The flash is pointing straight up, so no direct flash is introduced and you get a lot of soft reflected light from around the room. It is not tilted here, but when I put it on the camera it was tilted and aimed at the ceiling with the camera in vertical orientation, as in the OP.

    IMAGE NOT FOUND
    IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
    HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


    At my son's right was a window and we just got 8" of new snow and it's bright as heck, so this is working as fill flash. Here is direct flash, Canon 350D and 580EX (yeah, old, still works). Everything on straight auto, this was quick and dirty.

    This is direct flash. Note the shadow on his left behind him.

    IMAGE: http://imageshack.us/a/img13/9021/m3y6.jpg


    This is with the little bounce card in place, flash pointed up to the ceiling, again on straight auto. Notice the softer shadow behind him, and the difference in exposure on the cabinets that were about 4 feet behind him and generally softened contrast. Overall, I think it is a much softer, more attractive look. Obviously he was not thrilled being my model. :rolleyes:

    IMAGE: http://imageshack.us/a/img703/6229/to0i.jpg



      
      LOG IN TO REPLY
    smorter
    Goldmember
    Avatar
    4,506 posts
    Likes: 18
    Joined Nov 2007
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
         
    Jan 03, 2014 10:35 |  #42

    John, if you want absolutely no flash shadow, point your flash over your left shoulder and do not put anything on the flash.

    The exact position would be:
    - start at the direct flash forward position
    - swivel flash head anti-clockwise 135 degrees
    - tilt the flash head up 45 degrees
    (the flash should now be pointing and casting a beam of light over your left shoulder)


    Wedding Photography Melbourneexternal link
    Reviews: 85LII

      
      LOG IN TO REPLY
    JohnCollins
    Senior Member
    Avatar
    539 posts
    Likes: 2
    Joined Nov 2005
    Location: Philadelphia area
         
    Jan 03, 2014 12:39 |  #43

    Absolutely, smorter, I do that often. I was simply trying to address the OP's original question about his DIY fix. For what he was trying to do, I think the small card is a better way to get there.

    I often do what you suggest. I've seen your diagram for the 'reverse bounce' flash in other threads. Love this example of that technique, for instance.

    PHOTOBUCKET EMBEDDING IS DISABLED BY THIS MEMBER.
    Photobucket sends ads instead of embedding photos from their free galleries.
    Click the link (if available) below to see the image in a gallery page.

    http://i33.photobucket​.com …es_0628_2010.jp​g~original (external link)


    That's a shot by Digital Paradise from this post.

    https://photography-on-the.net …hp?p=16571536&p​ostcount=4



      
      LOG IN TO REPLY
    digital ­ paradise
    How do I change this?
    Avatar
    14,962 posts
    Gallery: 7 photos
    Likes: 8446
    Joined Oct 2009
         
    Jan 03, 2014 13:01 |  #44

    Walls are usually bad news but you can work around it like smorter said by throwing the flash over your shoulder. The above shot the father told the girls line up against the wall. Don't know why but everyone always heads for walls. I said no, just stand in the hallway. Not the best comp, they were tired after the dance recital, etc so trying to find a better spot would have not worked. I tried to keep the people to the left in the background out of the shot thus the wall on the right. Still better than being against the wall.

    Put your back to wall. Corners are even better, add the ceiling if you can. With a shallow DOF you can get nice background lighting, etc depending on event you are shooting.


    Image Editing OK

    Website (external link) ~ Buy/Sell Feedback

      
      LOG IN TO REPLY
    JohnCollins
    Senior Member
    Avatar
    539 posts
    Likes: 2
    Joined Nov 2005
    Location: Philadelphia area
         
    Jan 03, 2014 13:14 |  #45

    That is a gorgeous shot, dp!

    I'm not sure I understand our comment about walls, though. You mean don't bounce off a wall? I get that. But bouncing behind me into the juncture of a wall/ceiling works. I'm not following you. What was behind you in that shot? An open hallway? Please describe what was around you and where you aimed the flash. Thanks!

    Sorry for the threadjack, but I think the OP's topic has been dealt with pretty much. I am curious about that shot.




      
      LOG IN TO REPLY
    sponsored links
    (this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

    8,111 views & 0 likes for this thread
    Bounce Card I made... did I put it in the right position for portraits?
    FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
    AAA
    x 1600
    y 1600

    Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

    Not a member yet?
    Register to forums
    Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


    COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
    Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


    POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
    version 2.1 /
    code and design
    by Pekka Saarinen ©
    for photography-on-the.net

    Latest registered member is proxyrdp
    1046 guests, 282 members online
    Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

    Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.