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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Bird Talk 
Thread started 01 Mar 2013 (Friday) 10:28
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Extremely unethical behavior by one of our own

 
canonloader
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Jan 06, 2014 11:57 |  #211

Say what you want, keep any opinion you like, but when I was walking thru our hickory woords and found a baby red tail on the gound still in pin feathers, there was no damn way you were going to make me walk by and leave it to die. There is just no argument that can rationalize that behaviour. I have raised and released too many hawks, crows and owls to let anyone tell me it is best to let them die. Damn fools. And that goes for sparrows, robins or any other bird that has the strength to raise it's head. They can all be saved. Do we have so many on the planet now that we can afford to let them die for someone elses ideal? I think not, I know not.


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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Jan 06, 2014 12:07 |  #212

Mitch, I think any suffering animal should be helped. My father was a birder and had a passion for all things nature and I grew up with animals that were injured, birds that had fallen out of the nest, etc. My father would nurture the animal back to health and then set it free. I never bait but I do take big bags of food to the park during Winter because every free meal is a meal that will help them survive. I will probably also takes shots of them while they are eating, but those shots are a by product so to speak. Which is different from baiting, where the food is not used to help the animal but to get the shot. But yeah, I would take that baby red tail, still in pin feathers home with me as well.


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Christopher ­ Steven ­ b
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Jan 06, 2014 12:21 |  #213

^Most reasonable people would help birds / approve of helping birds in those situations. His paragrab was a strawman.



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canonloader
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Jan 06, 2014 12:36 |  #214

LOL, strawman? Phooey. There are people right here in this thread that believe you should never interfere with any wild life at all. Period. I don't believe that, never will, and your comment is a alfalfa man. Pfffittt.


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cdiver2
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Jan 06, 2014 12:56 |  #215

canonloader wrote in post #16582166 (external link)
Well, luckily, I am not impressed enough by your opinion of what is intellectual to let it worry me. Obviously by your answer, the only intellectuals worthy of the name are turned out like twinkies at some intel factory. The rest of us can see how those people have really helped the world. :D

A quick question. What are your creds on wild life and saying who is and is not a expert. Just like to know who the voice of authority is.




  
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canonloader
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Jan 06, 2014 13:06 |  #216

Try reading back a few pages. I started as an "apprentice" falconer in 1959 at the age of 13, interrupted by a little trip to SE Asia 5 years later. The rest is hands on experience. Good enough? As far as I know, there was no college of birdery back then or even now. You learn by spending years in the woods, with the birdies, which I have done. Oh, yes, and a life on a working farm where your closest friends are the chickens and geese and the barn owls in the barn. And the little mice. :)

Personally, your average vet knows diddley about birds and unless he has spent years in the field with them, knows less than any farmboy. I would not call him an expert.


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Landcruiser
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Jan 06, 2014 14:22 |  #217

That post was deleted I believe. I helped, "apprenticed", paint my granny's house when I was 14, but I sure ain't no expert.




  
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cdiver2
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Jan 06, 2014 14:35 |  #218

canonloader wrote in post #16582553 (external link)
Try reading back a few pages. I started as an "apprentice" falconer in 1959 at the age of 13, interrupted by a little trip to SE Asia 5 years later. The rest is hands on experience. Good enough? As far as I know, there was no college of birdery back then or even now. You learn by spending years in the woods, with the birdies, which I have done. Oh, yes, and a life on a working farm where your closest friends are the chickens and geese and the barn owls in the barn. And the little mice. :)

Personally, your average vet knows diddley about birds and unless he has spent years in the field with them, knows less than any farmboy. I would not call him an expert.


I don't think anyone was talking about a local vet you brought that up, but from reading your post's you seem to put down anyone with a formal education in this field.
Like wise I attended the Nat Geo show on the birds of paradise and the lengths they went to get the shots without disturbing the birds were extraordinary (no food involved). I would have to say they had seen things that had never been seen before with some of the species.

Just my thoughts on this, do animals get conditioned to being feed by humans. Yes without a doubt. Is it harmful depends sometimes yes and some times no it all depends on how its done. If you do it to help the animal with minimum human contact ok but to do it just to get photos for sale/cred on a chat board...shame on you. I have baited conger ells in my younger days to film them and that turned out to be a disaster.
I learned a my lesson from that.




  
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canonloader
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Jan 06, 2014 14:56 |  #219

Landcruiser wrote in post #16582745 (external link)
That post was deleted I believe. I helped, "apprenticed", paint my granny's house when I was 14, but I sure ain't no expert.

You should just drop your spastic attempt at being smart. Helping paint granny's house and working with birds for over 4 years isn't even on the same planet.

you seem to put down anyone with a formal education in this field.

Take it as a given. A True Expert is rare. To most it is a job with a capitol J. I did say I lived in the woods with thebirds. You pick up a different perspective when you are in their world 24/7. That's my experience with the experts, weekend warriors. Your experience means nothing to me, since it's third hand and I didn't see them at work. Are all bird "experts" phoneys? Of course not. Your assuming to much if you think I said that. But in reality, you got to show me. And if you don't want to believe anything I said, fine, I don't care, but people who do know the birds around here from my perspective, know what I am saying. ;)


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grayline
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Jan 06, 2014 14:57 |  #220

canonloader wrote in post #16582487 (external link)
LOL, strawman? Phooey. There are people right here in this thread that believe you should never interfere with any wild life at all. Period. I don't believe that, never will, and your comment is a alfalfa man. Pfffittt.

As a second to that.... I believe if Man Can make up in any way possible of the Mere Negative impact we have brought to the wildlife as a whole The least we can do is Save the life of anything in need (unless its a Rattlesnake or Possum) they're on their own..:)


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mileslong24
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Jan 06, 2014 15:01 |  #221

gjl711 wrote in post #16582310 (external link)
Really? Does how the image being obtained change the quality? What about images where the photographer lied? Took a picture at the zoo but told everyone it was taken in the wild. I guess for me, I can separate the method from the quality but I still feel sorry or the mouse.

I guess I just happen to think there's a difference between randomly catching an owl swooping in on a small rodent and setting a rodent right in the perfect spot so that you already know exactly where it's going to land. Probably already having the camera focused to said spot and waiting for the owl to fill the frame and shoot. Big difference between reacting quickly and nailing focus on something than knowing something was going to happen and being ready for it.




  
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cdiver2
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Jan 06, 2014 15:14 |  #222

canonloader wrote in post #16582825 (external link)
You should just drop your spastic attempt at being smart. Helping paint granny's house and working with birds for over 4 years isn't even on the same planet.


Take it as a given. A True Expert is rare. To most it is a job with a capitol J. I did say I lived in the woods with thebirds. You pick up a different perspective when you are in their world 24/7. That's my experience with the experts, weekend warriors. Your experience means nothing to me, since it's third hand and I didn't see them at work. Are all bird "experts" phoneys? Of course not. Your assuming to much if you think I said that. But in reality, you got to show me. And if you don't want to believe anything I said, fine, I don't care, but people who do know the birds around here from my perspective, know what I am saying. ;)

No I don't take it as a given especially from a self proclaimed expert in birds and people. Reasonably knowledge probably a lot more than the man in the street (about birds). I don't think you are in there world 24/7 I take you do have a home you go to and a life other than birds...your post count would suggest you do.

I have spent hundreds of hours scuba diving all over the world, am I an expert, no where near, there are people that know a lot more than me and there are experts that know more than them but they will tell you they still don't know it all




  
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canonloader
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Jan 06, 2014 15:23 |  #223

grayline wrote in post #16582826 (external link)
As a second to that.... I believe if Man Can make up in any way possible of the Mere Negative impact we have brought to the wildlife as a whole The least we can do is Save the life of anything in need (unless its a Rattlesnake or Possum) they're on their own..:)

Please understand, I do not go around feeding owls live mice, too much trouble. And when I was learning about banding raptors and how to catch and handle them, there was an extreme dieoff in progress, from DDT. You may have heard about that? Real birders everywhere were scrambling to find the reason or cause for it, still unkown at the time, 1959 to 1963 when I was most active. I have seen old men weep over it, and you can believe what you want, but birds faces do have expressions and I have seen birds mourning cracked eggs in the nest, looking at the human for the answer. Call that imagination? You believe what you want. I know what I saw.

To let an innjocent young bird die for lack of a little care, I don't think much of that. It has been said that more than one billion small migratory birds die each year by running into tall buildings at night or getting confused and lost from lights in them. IMO, every human OWES the birds of this world. Up to you how you pay that debt. I don't need to say any more.


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cdiver2
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Jan 06, 2014 15:31 |  #224

canonloader wrote in post #16582901 (external link)
Please understand, I do not go around feeding owls live mice, too much trouble. And when I was learning about banding raptors and how to catch and handle them, there was an extreme dieoff in progress, from DDT. You may have heard about that? Real birders everywhere were scrambling to find the reason or cause for it, still unkown at the time, 1959 to 1963 when I was most active. I have seen old men weep over it, and you can believe what you want, but birds faces do have expressions and I have seen birds mourning cracked eggs in the nest, looking at the human for the answer. Call that imagination? You believe what you want. I know what I saw.

To let an innjocent young bird die for lack of a little care, I don't think much of that. It has been said that more than one billion small migratory birds die each year by running into tall buildings at night or getting confused and lost from lights in them. IMO, every human OWES the birds of this world. Up to you how you pay that debt. I don't need to say any more.

Now this I can agree with 100%




  
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Jan 06, 2014 16:07 |  #225

canonloader, when you speak so scornfully about people whose opinions differ from yours, they and the rest of us (I've been a silent bystander up till now) will be less inclined to take seriously what you say. I know you're convinced that you're right. Don't you understand that those who believe differently are likewise convinced that they're right? In a civilized debate, one criticizes what is said but not the person who said it.


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Extremely unethical behavior by one of our own
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