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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 16 Dec 2013 (Monday) 10:55
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Bride Unhappy with Photos: ADVICE PLEASE

 
P51Mstg
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Jan 12, 2014 21:13 |  #136

Since I was a lawyer for 17 years, the copyright case is probably better than any case they have for bad wedding photos.

Second, nobody is going to take the "bad wedding photos" case contingent (paid if we win). They are going to have to cough up $15k to $20k or MORE just to get it started and IF they win anything, THEY DONT GET THAT BACK (unless it was in the contract and I'll be you all money it isn't)....

Simple way to put it is...

Explain, you used the photos, you edited the photos, you must have seen value in them. Its over. If you think it ISN"T over then when you sue, I'll counter claim on the copyright violation. Dig deep to get the money together to hire a lawyer and then more to pay me with. I have nothing else to say about it. Have a nice FN day....


IF they sued, they hire an expert (a photographer) who says photos sucked, you hire one who says photos don't suck. Judge looks at it, you bent over backwards to make them happy, had their admission from WC that photos OK, they used the photos, you aren't going to lose....

BTW, you will have to remove the case to Federal Court, because your counterclaim is copyright, which is a federal matter. The lawyer who sues on the "bad photos" sure as heck isn't going to want to go to fed court....


Mark H


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AlFooteIII
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Jan 12, 2014 22:37 |  #137

^^^Love it!^^^


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stefesphoto
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Jan 12, 2014 22:37 as a reply to  @ P51Mstg's post |  #138

Update:

I called the bride and left a voice mail asking her to call me as soon as she can to talk about her photos.

I later sent her an email giving her until Tuesday to contact me or I would consider the job done and I'd be moving on.

I also replied to the wedding coordinator stating that this matter needs to be settled between the bride and I and I would be discussing it no further with her.

After seeing the horrible edit that the bride was using as her profile picture and how she continued to exclaim that she's spent hours "fixing" my photos, I felt I needed to let her know about copyright laws. I simply said that in editing them, she was violating the law and if she would like to familiarize herself with the law, to Google it.

Her tone changed entirely and said she would back down and let the bride and myself handle the situation. She then tried saying she didn't know cropping was considered editing. I let her know that it indeed was, but the image I was speaking of was above and beyond cropping. She tried acting like the photo in question was not even mine at first, as if I wouldn't recognize it with all the editing.

Anyway, it ended with her apologizing and promising to stay out of it from here on out.

I highly doubt at this point I'll even hear from the bride.




  
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stefesphoto
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Jan 12, 2014 22:39 |  #139

P51Mstg wrote in post #16600679 (external link)
Since I was a lawyer for 17 years, the copyright case is probably better than any case they have for bad wedding photos.

Second, nobody is going to take the "bad wedding photos" case contingent (paid if we win). They are going to have to cough up $15k to $20k or MORE just to get it started and IF they win anything, THEY DONT GET THAT BACK (unless it was in the contract and I'll be you all money it isn't)....

Simple way to put it is...

Explain, you used the photos, you edited the photos, you must have seen value in them. Its over. If you think it ISN"T over then when you sue, I'll counter claim on the copyright violation. Dig deep to get the money together to hire a lawyer and then more to pay me with. I have nothing else to say about it. Have a nice FN day....


IF they sued, they hire an expert (a photographer) who says photos sucked, you hire one who says photos don't suck. Judge looks at it, you bent over backwards to make them happy, had their admission from WC that photos OK, they used the photos, you aren't going to lose....

BTW, you will have to remove the case to Federal Court, because your counterclaim is copyright, which is a federal matter. The lawyer who sues on the "bad photos" sure as heck isn't going to want to go to fed court....


Mark H

Thanks for that!




  
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sapearl
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Jan 12, 2014 22:41 |  #140

Very good Steph - it sounds like your on the road to putting this behind you. I agree that you probably won't hear from the bride. Now you can move on ;)


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JeremyKPhoto
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Jan 12, 2014 22:53 |  #141

If the pictures are on facebook you can submit a claim of copyright infringement. This will have the images removed.

https://www.facebook.c​om/help/www/4002878500​27717 (external link)

What you have had to deal with seems like a nightmare....


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nathancarter
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Jan 12, 2014 23:03 |  #142

Ratjack wrote in post #16600860 (external link)
If the pictures are on facebook you can submit a claim of copyright infringement. This will have the images removed.

https://www.facebook.c​om/help/www/4002878500​27717 (external link)

What you have had to deal with seems like a nightmare....

... but take a screenshot first.


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JeremyKPhoto
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Jan 12, 2014 23:15 |  #143

nathancarter wrote in post #16600888 (external link)
... but take a screenshot first.

Ya, I would be making sure to get a screenshot of everything.


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stefesphoto
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Jan 12, 2014 23:20 |  #144

Screenshots done!




  
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Savethemoment
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Jan 13, 2014 02:17 |  #145

Congratulations, I always love it when people stand up to bullies/scammers and win!! Sounds as if you've well & truly won this one; hopefully the other parties have learned a lesson.

I also hope you might have more self-confidence in future, not only in the quality of your work but in standing up to anyone else who might try this sort of thing.


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Flores
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Jan 13, 2014 10:04 |  #146

Savethemoment wrote in post #16601125 (external link)
Congratulations, I always love it when people stand up to bullies/scammers and win!! Sounds as if you've well & truly won this one; hopefully the other parties have learned a lesson.

I also hope you might have more self-confidence in future, not only in the quality of your work but in standing up to anyone else who might try this sort of thing.

This. The lesson here is to always refine and check the contract you use for photos. The less open to interpretation, the less likely it is you run into folks that think they can bully you into doing free stuff.




  
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stefesphoto
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Jan 13, 2014 10:11 as a reply to  @ Savethemoment's post |  #147

This morning, I sent the bride a text letting her know I've made my final attempt to contact her by phone ans that I also sent her an email. She texted back asking when I could meet her. I told her we first needed to discuss things over the phone to see what options we have at the point since they've taken it upon themselves to edit my photos. She told me to call her at noon ans I told her to call me ans if I don't hear from her by noon I'm.moving on.

My plan is to let her know the purpose of the phone call is to get closure on the situation TODAY because I cannot go weeks at a time not hearing from her, then randomly getting emails from her or her WC again stating her unhappiness.

I simply am going to let her know I would be more than willing to sit down ans go over the pictures one by one, but additional work at this point will be extra and I'll be considering it an entirely new session and will be charging those prices. Also, no refunds of any kind will be issued.

What do you guys think? Any additional advice?

Hopefully after today, you all won't have to hear from me anymore regarding this issue :)




  
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Jan 13, 2014 11:18 |  #148

We just wanna' see your terrible pictures. :)


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seres
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Jan 13, 2014 11:36 |  #149

stefesphoto wrote in post #16601774 (external link)
This morning, I sent the bride a text letting her know I've made my final attempt to contact her by phone ans that I also sent her an email. She texted back asking when I could meet her. I told her we first needed to discuss things over the phone to see what options we have at the point since they've taken it upon themselves to edit my photos. She told me to call her at noon ans I told her to call me ans if I don't hear from her by noon I'm.moving on.

My plan is to let her know the purpose of the phone call is to get closure on the situation TODAY because I cannot go weeks at a time not hearing from her, then randomly getting emails from her or her WC again stating her unhappiness.

I simply am going to let her know I would be more than willing to sit down ans go over the pictures one by one, but additional work at this point will be extra and I'll be considering it an entirely new session and will be charging those prices. Also, no refunds of any kind will be issued.

What do you guys think? Any additional advice?

Hopefully after today, you all won't have to hear from me anymore regarding this issue :)

Well said!


—Eric

  
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stefesphoto
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Jan 13, 2014 11:42 |  #150

Well folks, that was a short and sweet conversation!

She called at noon was defensive from the very start.

She started off by saying that I didn't have a contract with her wedding coordinator and I'm the one that chose to send her the CD so that's between her and I.

I reminded her that I sent the CD per her request and I have it in email.

She kept cutting me off and raising her voice before I could even get two words out, so I calmly let her know that this conversation was not going to continue if she was going to keep cutting me off and I would absolutely not allow it to turn to an argument.

She kept going on the defense about how she didn't edit he pictures and tried telling me she hasn't used them. I reminded her that she told me she used them for her thank you cards and she's used them on social media and by her wedding coordinator editing them.

She tried denying that she used my photos on Facebook (as they've since been taken down). And actually asked me, "well, how do you know they're your photos? My aunt took photos that day and I've posted those to my Facebook. How do you know they're yours if they've been edited???"

Umm...

I told her that I know the photos she's posted to her Facebook page are mine. I saved them to my computer and took a screen shot showing where they came from.

I kept attempting to ask her what she thought would be fair at that point since the photos had been user, but the conversation kept turning to her getting defensive about them being used and edited... and she just continued to bash my work. She says I never touched her dress or positioned people. You know, things normal photographers do.

She also compared her wedding photography to my family sessions I post to my Facebook page. She said, "I look at all your family sessions and they're beautiful! I look at "mutual fb friend client's" family photos all the time and they're beautiful! She can print those straight off the CD how they are!"

I explained to her that those are family sessions and are posed sessions, much like the after wedding posed portion that I did for her and her husband. I suggest poses, you do them, I ask you if there are any additional poses you'd like to do, etc.

And if that is what she hired me based on, she should have known the wedding photos were not going to be that way. I explained to her that I don't stop moments such as the ceremony and cake cutting to pose you or have you "smile at the camera". Those moments are shot in a photo journalistic style so I can capture the moment as it happens naturally! She then repeated, "she doesn't stop moments" to her husband...

Well, after not really being able to complete a sentence, she decided to keep throwing out random things she was upset about... I didn't get enough pictures of her dogs. I got two. I didn't get a picture of her husband signing the certificate and it was a small room, so I should have got his attention.

She said she is still my customer (which really, she's not... but I couldnt get that out)... and I'm sending threatening text messages to her all because this has hone on for three months "all because I didn't call you on a Sunday" (referring to herself cancelling and never calling back to reschedule - its been over three weeks).

The texts I sent to her simply let her know that I called her one last time, please refer to the emails I sent including time lines of our conversations, and that I would need to hear from her by tomorrow via phone call or I moving on.

She then texted me asking when was a good time to meet. I told her that we needed to have a phone discussion first to see what options we had at that point since they've been used and edited.

She told me to call her at noon. I told her she needed to call me as I already states the last phone call I made was going to be my final one. And made it clear that if she did not call TODAY, I would have to move on from matter.

So, no threats. My tone was more than calm with her on the phone.

She said she thought she should get all her money back and she would send back the CD.

At this point, she was yelling and I manages to mutter in "that's ridiculous" and she said something yeah it is ridiculous, we're just going to have to take this to court, so its going to go on for three more months, this is far from over, good doing business with me and hung up.

So maybe, just MAYBE, this thread can go on for another three months!

But anyway, I'm glad that conversation is over and feel a sense of closure now. Even if she does choose to take me to court, at this point, or much rather do that than have to keep receiving emails from her and her WC once every three weeks.




  
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