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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 21 Jan 2014 (Tuesday) 13:16
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1Dx and Speedlite 550 ex

 
Aronis
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Jan 21, 2014 13:16 |  #1

Hello all,

I have been using my 1dx for a couple of weeks. I noticed that with the 550 ex flash (older speedlite I know) the camera does not sync at 250 like the flash and 10d did for years...

In fact with the camera set in Program it usually chooses a sync at 1/60 or even 1/40 as though there is no flash present. The photos are GREAT but I would like to shot at 1/250 with the flash and an ISO of about 400 or so....indoor photos of rapidly moving kids.

I tried using AV mode with the in camera setting for Sync at 250 in AV mode and it did not! Rather it choose f22 with a shutter speed of 250 and iso at 256000! Very strange. The photos were a bit dark and grainy.

Any thoughts?

Mike


1Dx, 10D 28-70 L 2.8, 50 1.4, 28 2.8

  
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jimlp
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Jan 21, 2014 13:53 |  #2

Have you tried shooting in manual? That will tell you if the camera is syncing where it should be.


Canon 1DsMk2
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apersson850
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Jan 21, 2014 14:26 as a reply to  @ jimlp's post |  #3

In P mode it's not supposed to select 1/250 s, if the surroundings are dark. The camera can most certainly sync at 1/250 s if you tell it to, but when it selects the shutter speed itself, it will take something according to the program it's using. Which in P mode is in the range 1/60 - 1/250 s. 1/40 s isn't included in the range.

In Av mode every possible exposure time is available, down to the shortest sync time of 1/250 s. But that does of course require that there's enough light for that.

The camera didn't choose f/22 in Av mode, you did. That's what Av mode is all about, choosing an aperture and letting the camera select the rest. If you selected auto ISO and it was pretty dark and you perhaps have programmed the camera to select 1/250 s only when using Av with flash, then you do of course get ISO 25600, if that's set as max value for auto ISO.

The basic principle for every Canon EOS camera is to expose for the ambient light available, regardless of whether you use a flash or not. If you do, you can indeed tell the camera to rely on flash only, if you so prefer. There are several methods to do that, but using the M mode is by far the easiest.

I may be wrong, but it sounds to me that you are trying to work with a piece of equipment which is quite far above your skill level. If I'm right, then perhaps some more basic class/book about photography would be helpful?


Anders

  
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dpds68
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Jan 21, 2014 16:08 |  #4

In AV Mode the camera cant choose a f Stop you do .


Oops sorry I see it was covered above .

And yes try Manual mode .

David


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renagade69
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Jan 21, 2014 17:58 |  #5

You may have the flash turned off in the settings.
I just pulled my 1DX out and mounted my 600 EX-RT flash. Set it to TV 250 and works great. I only had the 1DX for a few weeks and needed an excuse to try my flash anyway. In AV mode (Aperture priority). You can only choose lens opening. The camera sets the shutter speed depending on ISO. If the flash is set to ETTL and its enabled in the camera settings then it should fire.


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Aronis
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Jan 21, 2014 18:27 |  #6

I was pretty sure I set the fstop to 2.8 but I may be wrong. The flash fires and the camera reports flash in the image data.

I will check my images for the other produced settings.

In program mode on my EOS 1, Old FILM days, the camera synced at 1/250 with the flash.

In program mode on my EOS 10d, the camera sync speed is 1/60 with the flash.

In program mode on the 1Dx it was not syncing at 1/250 in program, but 1/60. I'll double check.

Now maybe I'm too stupid to use this piece of equipment, but that comment is not appreciated.

I'll take a few shots in program and av to confirm my issue and get back to you.

Thanks

Mike


1Dx, 10D 28-70 L 2.8, 50 1.4, 28 2.8

  
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Aronis
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Jan 21, 2014 19:02 |  #7

I went through the images.

I was first shooting without a flash. Indoor event. Good lighting. With a 50 mm 1.4 and a 28-70 2.8L.

I reconstructed my setting changes. I shot in P and then in AV. I set my aperture to 2.8 and shot a few. I then started using the flash in P. Then I figured I would try Av with the flash range set to 1/250 to 1/60.

I did not realize that the camera did not recall my last Av aperture choice and when I re-select AV it was indeed fully stopped down at f22. The images with the flash reported as "fired" had ISO 400. Others where the flash failed (not charged) were at 256000 which makes perfect sense at f22. D'ooh. Others had "Flashed Fire, in compulsory mode" and the ISO was 160000 or 256000 so I assume the flash was not fully charged. Fortunately I had switched back to program for the rest of the party.

Now it makes sense.

Sorry for the nubi question!! LOL. I've only show a few hundred shots with it and was somewhat dismayed that it was not flash syncing at 1/250 in program like my film Eos1. I does in bright ambient light though.

As far as photo experience for Anders sake. I started out taking b&w photos with fully manual cameras in 1976 with my own darkroom. Then moved on to color processing at home with an AE-1. Did a bit of paid work through college shooting and processing. Etc. I moved on to scanning negatives and began digital processing. Etc. etc. T90, EOS1, 10d. Etc. I'm an amature but I've only had the 1Dx for two weeks. Cut me some slack!,,,,

Mike.


1Dx, 10D 28-70 L 2.8, 50 1.4, 28 2.8

  
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smythie
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Jan 21, 2014 19:30 |  #8

I've always had headaches with flash in any mode other than M. A lot of that is down to me being a novice but regardless of whether I'm using a 40D, 5D or various Nikons I find it more consistent when using ettl flash to set the camera in Manual with ss set at 1/250 then using either aperture or ISO to adjust for the ability of the flash to fill the scene with desirable amount of light.


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renagade69
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Jan 21, 2014 20:04 |  #9

The Canon makes the flash control pretty easy. The exposure compensation and the flash compensation work independently of each other. The exposure compensation controls the background and the flash compensation controls the foreground.No other camera system does this that I know of. It really maks being creative with the flash quite easy.


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apersson850
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Jan 22, 2014 02:55 as a reply to  @ renagade69's post |  #10

First, "not knowing" just means "has more to learn". It doesn't mean "stupid". I was not trying to be rude, but your initial post indicated someone more or less completely lost. It's difficult to teach someone everything through this kind of channel. But now when the fact that you certainly doesn't lack experience is well known, I'm sure we'll sort this out. Sorry if I annoyed you - that wasn't the intention. I was just concerned that you seemed to not understand even rather basic camera handling.

Myself, I've had Canon cameras since 1975 (starting with the Canon EF you can see in my avatar to the left), but I'm still learning things too.

Anyway, it seems that by looking at individual images and conclusions drawn from that, you've misunderstood how this works.

The cameras you refer to, the EOS 1V (and predecessors), EOS 10D and EOS 1DX, all work the same when using flash in P mode. They select a shutter speed in the range 1/60 - sync speed (sync speed varies between models, but is often about 1/250 s). Exactly what you get depends on the ambient light. If dark, longer time and if bright, shorter time.

Using auto ISO when shooting with flash is rather pointless. You don't say you do, but it seems so from reading between the lines. Due to the combination of metering for ambient prior to exposure and metering the flash just before the exposure, the camera has to set a fixed ISO anyway. It's more efficient to select a fixed ISO that works well with the conditions, than relying on having it set to ISO 400 (in P mode it will be lifted to ISO 1600 if you bounce the flash).

The 1DX does indeed remember the chosen aperture from one session in Av until you return to that mode next time. If it was different, then you happened to change it by mistake. Or the camera did, due to being set to safety shift: Av/Tv, but then that's a setting you've done. Since you wrote that you had once a T90, you may remember that back then, it did not remember. Every time you set that camera to Av, you got f/5.6, and each time you selected Tv, you got 1/125 s. Not so any longer.

What's normal for Av mode is to use the full range of exposure times available, which for a 1DX implies 30 s - 1/250 s, when using flash. First the camera meters the ambient light and selects an exposure time that fits the light and your chosen aperture. Then the E-TTL II system meters the flash light and selects a flash power that suits the aperture and the subject. With this combination you get a properly exposed subject, both far away background and nearby parts.

If you set Av mode to use the shutter speed range 1/60 - 1/250 s, you get the same as with P mode, except in Av mode you can still set the aperture. The advantage here is that you never get times too long to handhold (assuming reasonably long lenses), but at the cost of dark backgrounds if it's dark around you.

Locking the exposure time to 1/250 s in Av mode is pretty pointless. It's better to set that in M mode, since that means that you can much easier modify the time, if you feel that you want to, without having to go into the flash setup menu to release the limitation of the shutter speed.

In M mode it's up to you to set how you render the background. The camera's built in metering system will let you see immediately how your setting is, compared to what the camera considers to be a standard exposure. Thus you can easily set how dark or bright you want the background, and still keep an eye on the shutter speed, without taking your eye away from the viewfinder.


Anders

  
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Aronis
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Jan 22, 2014 07:45 |  #11

Thanks Anders.

I am teachable.

Mike


1Dx, 10D 28-70 L 2.8, 50 1.4, 28 2.8

  
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1Dx and Speedlite 550 ex
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
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