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Thread started 20 Jan 2014 (Monday) 14:06
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Scott Kelby Explains Why He Switched to Canon

 
kin2son
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Jan 22, 2014 23:37 |  #181
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El Pedro wrote in post #16628715 (external link)
How's the DR on your 1DS3 at 6400?

DR is irrelevant @ ISO6400. It only matters @ low ISO (100-400) meaning mostly to landscape photographers using tripod.

In fact @ ISO800 and up, a 5D3 has better DR than D800/E, but problem remains and that is the shadow noise and banding.

At the end of the day who really cares what camera system this guy uses. No camera is able to be the best at everything. They probably do that so guys like Jdizzle go out and buy ten of them.

If Scott is a true sports shooter it makes perfect sense. As everybody knows 1DX sh!ts all over D4, and D800 is only better than 5D3 for scapes and studio use. 5D3 is a better all rounder.


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Jan 22, 2014 23:46 |  #182

I am a little ashamed to say I've never heard of this guy before I read this thread and wondered why there was such a big deal of a guy switching companies. I only watched half the video but IMO he seemed quite genuine and didn't at all come across like he was only doing this for money.

And other than a little poking fun at people who use Nikon or Canon, I can't believe how serious some people get defending their choice of brand. I shoot Canon. Didn't like how Nikon felt in my hands. Doesn't make them bad cameras. Use what makes you happy and gets you out taking photos.




  
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Jan 23, 2014 00:29 |  #183

jdizzle wrote in post #16628448 (external link)
I got tired of Canon and moved on.

You obviously never moved on. Why else would you hang around daily to talk sh*t about canon and brag about the superiority of nikon/sony sensors? :rolleyes:


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Jan 23, 2014 01:39 |  #184

I can't believe I just read this whole thread. :oops:


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Jan 23, 2014 06:07 |  #185

Scatterbrained wrote in post #16628891 (external link)
I can't believe I just read this whole thread. :oops:


It's kind of like a gawker jam of people watching a bad accident. I keep clicking in it, too. :) Can't help myself.

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Jan 23, 2014 06:14 |  #186

jdizzle wrote in post #16628448 (external link)
I could care less any more. ;) It's clear that a lot of members on this forum want a sensor with DR. Go look at the Sony A7\A7r threads. Also, Magic Lantern is a bunch of hopefuls who want to get extra DR in the 5D3 but, the sensor in reality can't push shadows like the D800 without showing banding. I got tired of Canon and moved on. My gear list shows that my one and only Canon is the 1Ds 3. I urge you to compare it at base ISO with your 5D3. It will help you understand my position about DR. :)

I agree with you 100% on DR the only issue is 99% of folks on POTN can't afford the gear you have (I assume your a working professional) One to two bodys is the norm. If I had 5k to spend now I would get an A7r but would also want to get 5D3 with magic lantern for quicker shooting. If I had only one camera it would be the 5D3 with magic lantern since it could shoot a variety of things an A7r or D800 would miss. If you could only have one or two body's from your gear which would you pick?


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Jan 23, 2014 06:53 |  #187

sploo wrote in post #16626992 (external link)
Please don't use the tired "learn to expose properly" mantra - that's like telling someone with a slow AF system they should learn to press the shutter button faster. If a scene greatly exceeds the DR capability of the sensor then no single exposure (regardless of the camera settings or experience of the shooter) is going to capture it.

I understand that, but it's not what I was getting at. I see so many people that shoot a horribly underexposed pic and then use that as proof of DR when they pull details out, hence the "shoot at the proper exposure" comment. I can do the exact same thing with almost any modern DSLR from Canon or Nikon. 2 stops difference between a 5D3 of D800 is moot in most cases. Call me strange, but I kind of like shadows to be....shadowy :p

A guy here on potn had an example of using ND filters and better DR let him use less powerful filters. Good point. But my **** is that for the overwhelming majority of shooters, DR is really not that much of an issue, but yet it keeps surfacing on boards like this. I don't think I have ever ran into a shot where I said "damn, I wish I had better DR."

Sorry to contribute this to the DR war/Canon vs. Nikon. :p


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Jan 23, 2014 07:45 |  #188

WHAT?

Are you saying that skelby is an impostor?

What's next?
You'll tell me that Kanye West doesn't actually hate zoom lenses???
Why internet, whyyyyy?


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sploo
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Jan 23, 2014 07:46 |  #189

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #16629237 (external link)
I understand that, but it's not what I was getting at. I see so many people that shoot a horribly underexposed pic and then use that as proof of DR when they pull details out, hence the "shoot at the proper exposure" comment.

That really needs clarifying then, as if someone writes something on the lines of "learn to expose properly", it reads as an implied criticism that people who call for more DR don't understand how to shoot. Obviously you didn't mean that, but without context, it is what people will read.

However, whilst I do see what the guys posting underexposed shots are trying to show, I agree it often doesn't help their cause as it can result in confusion of what the issue is essentially about. Far better to post a wide DR shot and show how raising the shadows falls apart on a Canon sensor.

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #16629237 (external link)
I can do the exact same thing with almost any modern DSLR from Canon or Nikon. 2 stops difference between a 5D3 of D800 is moot in most cases. Call me strange, but I kind of like shadows to be....shadowy :p

A guy here on potn had an example of using ND filters and better DR let him use less powerful filters. Good point. But my **** is that for the overwhelming majority of shooters, DR is really not that much of an issue, but yet it keeps surfacing on boards like this.

Filters can, in some situations, be a complete solution - and in fact it's great to be able to hold the total DR back and expose to the right (ETTR). Even an Exmor sensor will benefit from that (bringing darker areas into higher stops, thus getting more recorded detail). However, many situations can't be fixed with filters, and then you're left with a choice of badly clipped shadows or blown out highlights.

I'd say the - practical - difference between Canon's sensors and an Exmor is way more than 2 stops. Pulling detail from a D600/D800 file is breathtaking, whereas the bottom few stops from Canon's offerings will fall apart; and I say that as a very happy 5D3 owner (who isn't shooting much landscape these days).

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #16629237 (external link)
I don't think I have ever ran into a shot where I said "damn, I wish I had better DR."

Then your shooting needs are not those of a landscape photographer (just as sports, action, or portrait shooters needs also differ from one another).

I would say that, for landscape shooters, good DR is as critical as good AF is to sports shooters.

My point there is that it's horses for courses; I doubt anyone would tell a sports shooter there was no need for good AF (because it's fairly easy to understand their need for AF, even if you're not a sports photographer yourself [I'm certainly not]). Whilst the need for better DR may be less obvious, I'd say that anyone that's ever done more than very occasional landscape shooting would have experienced situations of having insufficient sensor DR - even if they were using the current benchmarks of the D800 or Sony a7R. DR really is quite fundamental to that short of shooting.


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kin2son
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Jan 23, 2014 07:50 |  #190
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Gregg.Siam wrote in post #16629237 (external link)
I see so many people that shoot a horribly underexposed pic and then use that as proof of DR when they pull details out, hence the "shoot at the proper exposure" comment.

In Canonland we are taught to ETTR simply because the shadow noise and banding are horrendous.

Shoot at the proper exposure under a DR challenged scene means the shadows are sacrificed, ETTR means the highlights are blown with no details.

ETTL (Expose to the left) with a modern Sony sensor makes perfect sense imo, clean shadows whilst preserving the highlights.

My friend has a $600 Ricoh GR (16mp APS-C crop camera) and sent me this image to play with.

SOOC -

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

Original (external link) by kin2son (external link), on Flickr

Now, highlight -100, shadows +100, +0.5 exposure adjusted in LR gives me this...
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

Edited (external link) by kin2son (external link), on Flickr

And here's a 100% crop of the bottom left of the image, ZERO NR AND SHARPENING -
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

Crop - bottom left (external link) by kin2son (external link), on Flickr

To be honest with you my heart sunk quite a bit as my 5D3 is worst in terms of shadow recovery than a point and shoot :(

The Nikon D800 is a couple levels above that....lucky I ain't a landscape guy, orelse I would have shot myself rather than shooting Canon.

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Jan 23, 2014 07:53 as a reply to  @ Gregg.Siam's post |  #191

I kinda like the debates seeing as many people argue that the differences are like night and day only to find out thats its more like the difference between 5 and 5:30 in the afternoon. So whenever i see potn members who shoot with both or have recently switched brands I like reading their comments to see what first hand experience they bring to the table


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Jan 23, 2014 08:01 |  #192

kin2son wrote in post #16628742 (external link)
DR is irrelevant @ ISO6400. It only matters @ low ISO (100-400) meaning mostly to landscape photographers using tripod.

In fact @ ISO800 and up, a 5D3 has better DR than D800/E, but problem remains and that is the shadow noise and banding.

If Scott is a true sports shooter it makes perfect sense. As everybody knows 1DX sh!ts all over D4.

Care to back that up?


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Jan 23, 2014 08:19 |  #193

andrikos wrote in post #16629335 (external link)
WHAT?

You'll tell me that Kanye West doesn't actually hate zoom lenses???
...

Hhpfmmmt... you owe me a keyboard! :D I just spluttered a mouthful of coffee on it!...:D:D


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Jan 23, 2014 08:26 |  #194

jdizzle wrote in post #16628448 (external link)
I could care less any more. ;) It's clear that a lot of members on this forum want a sensor with DR. Go look at the Sony A7\A7r threads. Also, Magic Lantern is a bunch of hopefuls who want to get extra DR in the 5D3 but, the sensor in reality can't push shadows like the D800 without showing banding. I got tired of Canon and moved on. My gear list shows that my one and only Canon is the 1Ds 3. I urge you to compare it at base ISO with your 5D3. It will help you understand my position about DR. :)

And how are those shots on your D800 at 25000 ISO? Yes, just what I thought - unusable, whereas on the 5D Mark III they look mighty fine.

For me, I would much rather have high ISO capability as that's what I need the most. DR has never been a problem for me because I use the spot meter average and properly expose for the shadows.

If DR superiority is all the Nikon folks have to talk about with their cameras then there's not very much to talk about is there? But then again, with the oil splatter problem haunting both the D600 and D800 and autofocus issues I suppose DR is all that is left to be proud of.


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Jan 23, 2014 08:27 |  #195

El Pedro wrote in post #16628715 (external link)
How's the DR on your 1DS3 at 6400?

At the end of the day who really cares what camera system this guy uses. No camera is able to be the best at everything. They probably do that so guys like Jdizzle go out and buy ten of them.

The 1Ds 3 is native to 1600 and expands to 3200. :)




  
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Scott Kelby Explains Why He Switched to Canon
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