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Thread started 20 Jan 2014 (Monday) 14:06
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Scott Kelby Explains Why He Switched to Canon

 
jdizzle
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Jan 23, 2014 08:29 |  #196

reprazent wrote in post #16628788 (external link)
You obviously never moved on. Why else would you hang around daily to talk sh*t about canon and brag about the superiority of nikon/sony sensors? :rolleyes:

I love to stir your pot! :lol::lol::lol::lol:




  
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jdizzle
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Jan 23, 2014 08:33 |  #197

Jon_Doh wrote in post #16629438 (external link)
And how are those shots on your D800 at 25000 ISO? Yes, just what I thought - unusable, whereas on the 5D Mark III they look mighty fine.

For me, I would much rather have high ISO capability as that's what I need the most. DR has never been a problem for me because I use the spot meter average and properly expose for the shadows.

If DR superiority is all the Nikon folks have to talk about with their cameras then there's not very much to talk about is there?

Well, since I pay for my gear, I feel I should get my money's worth, right? With Canon sensors, it's a big slap in the face to the consumer. You don't have to tell me what I don't know about the 5D 3. I owned one! And they had great intercourse with each other!! :lol:;)

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Jan 23, 2014 08:40 |  #198

MakisM1 wrote in post #16629415 (external link)
Hhpfmmmt... you owe me a keyboard! :D I just spluttered a mouthful of coffee on it!...:D:D

An Amazon Basics keyboard is on its way to Houston... ;)

PS you can easily wash a keyboard in the dishwasher. Just make sure it's thoroughly air-dried before you plug it back in.


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Jan 23, 2014 09:46 |  #199

kin2son wrote in post #16629347 (external link)
In Canonland we are taught to ETTR simply because the shadow noise and banding are horrendous.

Shoot at the proper exposure under a DR challenged scene means the shadows are sacrificed, ETTR means the highlights are blown with no details.

ETTL (Expose to the left) with a modern Sony sensor makes perfect sense imo, clean shadows whilst preserving the highlights.

I have to disagree with quite a bit of the above, but the reasons for it are somewhat technical.

As far as I understand it, ETTR usually refers to overexposing by as much as possible without blowing the highlights.

With that in mind, ETTR benefits any sensor, because of the way light levels are recorded in digital files. The bottom stop of light will only be recorded with two levels, the next with four, and the next with eight and so on. For every stop up in brightness, the resulting pixels will contain twice many levels (as the previous stop).

As a result, if two areas of an image are one stop apart in brightness (smoothly blending from one brightness level to the other across the image), but both are recorded in the lower (darker) stops of light, there will be relatively few steps between them (possibly leading to bands of brightness - especially if those darker areas are lightened, or the contrast is increased, in post). Those same two areas recorded with a bright exposure will contain a larger number of discrete steps between them, resulting in smoother detail.

E.g. two pixels with values of 8 and 16 respectively have only 8 brightness steps (16-8) between them. Exposing them such that they're recorded as 1024 and 2048 results in 1024 levels.

As long as the analog capability of the sensor being used is sensitive to the light changes, it'll always be better to record detail in the brighter stops (i.e. pushing the important detail as bright as possible in your exposure). This is relevant regardless of whether you're using an Exmor sensor, or a Canon "banding special".

The downfall of the Canon sensors (as far as I understand) is that the read out electronics introduces a level of pattern noise, which overwhelms the detail in the lower stops (i.e. the magnitude of the reading changes [noise] is large compared to the actual sensor readings [Signal]). This makes the bottom few stops unusable.

For higher ISO settings, the signal has already passed through an amplifier, such that some noise has been added+amplified by that amp stage, and that noise is sufficient to have drowned out the pattern noise added during read out. Hence the relative lack of difference between an Exmor and Canon sensors at higher ISO levels.

As others (with more knowledge in this area than I) have pointed out; there are indicators that Canon's underlying sensor technology is actually very good - and if they could sort out this pattern noise problem there's every chance the DR would match the Exmor.


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joeblack2022
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Jan 23, 2014 09:55 |  #200

renagade69 wrote in post #16627875 (external link)
You have to take Scott Kelby for his word. Unless someone has direct knowledge otherwise. Having the sponsorship had to help him change systems by taking the financial burden off of it. He has earned the recognition he got from Canon with his presence in the photography scene.Being such a big player that Canon was willing to sponsor him is an attribute to his success. I would like to congratulate him on his success and wish him good luck with the new system.

???


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Scrumhalf
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Jan 23, 2014 11:20 |  #201

sploo wrote in post #16629622 (external link)
As far as I understand it, ETTR usually refers to overexposing by as much as possible without blowing the highlights.

With that in mind, ETTR benefits any sensor, because of the way light levels are recorded in digital files. The bottom stop of light will only be recorded with two levels, the next with four, and the next with eight and so on. For every stop up in brightness, the resulting pixels will contain twice many levels (as the previous stop).

+1. This is precisely why you want to ETTR all the time. Keep pushing it to the right as long as you don't blow any important highlights. There is no downside to it. It's just like Dolby NR for audio tape. Doesn't matter what the tape quality/technology is - Dolby NR will always give you better audio reproduction than without NR.


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Bakewell
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Jan 23, 2014 12:34 |  #202
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jdizzle wrote in post #16629446 (external link)
I love to stir your pot! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Finally, a self-admitted troll! That leaves about 5 or 6 more.


Dave

  
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Charlie
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Jan 23, 2014 13:13 |  #203

kin2son wrote in post #16629347 (external link)
In Canonland we are taught to ETTR simply because the shadow noise and banding are horrendous.

Shoot at the proper exposure under a DR challenged scene means the shadows are sacrificed, ETTR means the highlights are blown with no details.

ETTL (Expose to the left) with a modern Sony sensor makes perfect sense imo, clean shadows whilst preserving the highlights.

My friend has a $600 Ricoh GR (16mp APS-C crop camera) and sent me this image to play with.

To be honest with you my heart sunk quite a bit as my 5D3 is worst in terms of shadow recovery than a point and shoot :(

The Nikon D800 is a couple levels above that....lucky I ain't a landscape guy, orelse I would have shot myself rather than shooting Canon.

you're really over generalizing the shadow recovery aspect.

here's an actual scenario where I used tons of shadow recovery on a 6D. Not too happy about the shot because I used a $20 10 stop filter or vibrations from waves that really butchered IQ, but as far as shadow recovery, the 6D did a good job. shadows +100, white's +100, highlights -100.

IMO, the D800 might do marginally better for this particular image @100% view.

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Jan 23, 2014 13:19 |  #204

:lol:

gnome chompski wrote in post #16627528 (external link)
IMG NOTICE: [NOT AN IMAGE URL, NOT RENDERED INLINE]


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Jan 23, 2014 13:44 |  #205

jdizzle wrote in post #16629443 (external link)
The 1Ds 3 is native to 1600 and expands to 3200. :)

Exactly.




  
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Jan 23, 2014 13:48 as a reply to  @ Georgey's post |  #206

Who is Scott Kelby? And why should anyone care what he does? ???

It's strange how some photographers are put on such high pedestals. All we do is turn dials and press buttons. :lol::lol:


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Jan 23, 2014 13:48 |  #207

Charlie wrote in post #16630213 (external link)
you're really over generalizing the shadow recovery aspect.

here's an actual scenario where I used tons of shadow recovery on a 6D. Not too happy about the shot because I used a $20 10 stop filter or vibrations from waves that really butchered IQ, but as far as shadow recovery, the 6D did a good job. shadows +100, white's +100, highlights -100.

IMO, the D800 might do marginally better for this particular image @100% view.

QUOTED IMAGE

But see... in your example above... if you had shot it with a D800, not only will you get superb shadow recovery, you'd instantaneously have a Sports Illustrated Swimsuit model pop out. Try as you may, that won't happen when shooting and doing shadow recovery with a Canon. ;)


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Jan 23, 2014 14:09 |  #208

joeblack2022 wrote in post #16627792 (external link)
How many guessed that this would turn into a Canon vs. Nikon thread? :)

Copperny wrote in post #16627903 (external link)
its gonna get better it will be the 6D vs The 5D mark III soon.

Nahhh, I think it will turn into Crop vs FF :lol:


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Jan 23, 2014 14:17 |  #209

kin2son wrote in post #16629347 (external link)
In Canonland we are taught to ETTR simply because the shadow noise and banding are horrendous.

Shoot at the proper exposure under a DR challenged scene means the shadows are sacrificed, ETTR means the highlights are blown with no details.

ETTL (Expose to the left) with a modern Sony sensor makes perfect sense imo, clean shadows whilst preserving the highlights.

My friend has a $600 Ricoh GR (16mp APS-C crop camera) and sent me this image to play with.

SOOC -
IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

Original (external link) by kin2son (external link), on Flickr

Now, highlight -100, shadows +100, +0.5 exposure adjusted in LR gives me this...
IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

Edited (external link) by kin2son (external link), on Flickr

And here's a 100% crop of the bottom left of the image, ZERO NR AND SHARPENING -
IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

Crop - bottom left (external link) by kin2son (external link), on Flickr

To be honest with you my heart sunk quite a bit as my 5D3 is worst in terms of shadow recovery than a point and shoot :(

The Nikon D800 is a couple levels above that....lucky I ain't a landscape guy, orelse I would have shot myself rather than shooting Canon.

the way I see it, that shot IS exposed to the right. bright enough that the unwanted highlights are just clipping but not so bright that you are clipping nite than you want. it certainly wasn't exposed to the left IMO.


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jdizzle
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Jan 23, 2014 14:17 |  #210

Bakewell wrote in post #16630103 (external link)
Finally, a self-admitted troll! That leaves about 5 or 6 more.

Oh please! I don't take it to heart like you do. ;)




  
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