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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 15 Jan 2014 (Wednesday) 17:05
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3 ESSENTIAL MARKETING TACTICS FOR PHOTOGRAPHERS

 
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grahamclarkphoto
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Jan 23, 2014 14:27 |  #106

digirebelva wrote in post #16630419 (external link)
Graham, I'm not the one who tried to come across as something of an expert in the beginning with snipits of marketing info, and how that knowledge had increased your image sales etc., and then bam...all specifics when right out the window when the questions got more direct..that's where this thread came off the tracks. :(

So, you say this is a marketing thread, that YOU started, then you can (a) either dispense some actual direct knowledge to the direct questions that have been asked, (b) tell folks that the answers are in your book (if they are) or (c) have the mods close this thread, cause this isnt going anywhere fast...

I've included:

- Lots of content on how to market photography
- References to the great marketers (external link)
- A blog article containing thousands of notes from Breakthrough Advertising (external link)
- A video of Robert Chaldini, one of the best psychologists on the subject of marketing (external link)

Here's a few more:

Breakthrough Advertising - Eugene Schwartz

You see, people don't change: only the direction of their desires do. They cannot be made to want anything, nor is it necessary to create want. In other words, it is about helping to shape the largest and strongest market possible, and then intensifying that market's reaction to its basic need or problem, and to the "exclusive" solution vou have to offer it.

These principles work. They discover markets. They build markets. They intensify markets. They revitalize markets. They perform, in sum, the invaluable function of giving you customers for the products you want or have to sell. And that's what we all need, isn't it? Customers.

Notice how it's all pretty solid? So I disagree.


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OhLook
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Jan 23, 2014 16:41 |  #107

grahamclarkphoto wrote in post #16630365 (external link)
Great photography content is the end goal here, sorry if you're interpreting that in any other way.

Well, in a later post, you say:

grahamclarkphoto wrote in post #16630423 (external link)
These principles work. They discover markets. They build markets. They intensify markets. They revitalize markets. They perform, in sum, the invaluable function of giving you customers for the products you want or have to sell. And that's what we all need, isn't it? Customers.

So I think the end goal is maximizing sales. That's not at all the same thing as great photography content. You offer advice on conducting the business side of a photography enterprise. I haven't yet seen, anywhere in this thread, that you help people take better pictures.

This is what I wrote that you were nominally responding to:

I still disagree with the idea that giving something away obligates the recipient to do something in return and, specifically, that it obligates the recipient to do something the giver decides would make an even exchange.

Saying that the goal is great photography content does nothing to justify the idea that giving something away creates an obligation in the recipient (and a corresponding entitlement for the giver) or the idea that the giver can decide how much a gift is worth to Person X. Your reply is nonresponsive.

At least I provide a very obvious unsubscribe button right?

I haven't seen the button. I'll have to take your word on how obvious it is.


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Jan 23, 2014 16:51 |  #108

OhLook wrote in post #16630746 (external link)
Well, in a later post, you say:
So I think the end goal is maximizing sales. That's not at all the same thing as great photography content. You offer advice on conducting the business side of a photography enterprise. I haven't yet seen, anywhere in this thread, that you help people take better pictures.

This is what I wrote that you were nominally responding to:

Saying that the goal is great photography content does nothing to justify the idea that giving something away creates an obligation in the recipient (and a corresponding entitlement for the giver) or the idea that the giver can decide how much a gift is worth to Person X. Your reply is nonresponsive.

I haven't seen the button. I'll have to take your word on how obvious it is.

I think you're confusing this a bit... it's really simple! Let me break it down:

- This post is in 'The Business of Photography' section of POTN.
- Great content does not equal "how to take better photographs"... I'm not making the connection here.
- Sign up for my newsletter and you'll see the unsubscribe button


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Bakewell
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Jan 23, 2014 19:08 as a reply to  @ grahamclarkphoto's post |  #109
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All this negativity is really boring.... People obviously aren't out shooting when all they do is complain and ridicule on this thread (and others) all day! Get a life people!


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thedcmule2
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Jan 23, 2014 19:10 |  #110

Bakewell wrote in post #16631107 (external link)
All this negativity is really boring.... People obviously aren't out shooting when all they do is complain and ridicule on this thread (and others) all day! Get a life people!

This...

Some of the photographers here claim to be "nice" people, and even use that as a marketing technique on their own portfolio yet act like a-holes in this thread :rolleyes: is what someone else doing really that important in your life?




  
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Jan 23, 2014 19:27 |  #111

grahamclarkphoto wrote in post #16630773 (external link)
I think you're confusing this a bit... it's really simple! Let me break it down:

- This post is in 'The Business of Photography' section of POTN.

Understood.

- Great content does not equal "how to take better photographs"... I'm not making the connection here.

You said "great photography content." Photography content is what's in the frame. You offer advice on how to sell photos, not how to make them.

- Sign up for my newsletter and you'll see the unsubscribe button

I'd worry about what else you might use my address for.

Now, what about that idea that giving something away entitles you to get something? Because I don't think it does. I also think harboring that kind of premise leads to surprises in business relations, and not the good kind, as customers/prospects discover that when you say "free," you don't really mean free.

Bakewell wrote in post #16631107 (external link)
All this negativity is really boring....

thedcmule2 wrote in post #16631110 (external link)
This... is what someone else doing really that important in your life?

I tend to speak up when moral issues surface.


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Jan 23, 2014 19:40 |  #112
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OhLook wrote in post #16631140 (external link)
Understood.

You said "great photography content." Photography content is what's in the frame. You offer advice on how to sell photos, not how to make them.

I'd worry about what else you might use my address for.

Now, what about that idea that giving something away entitles you to get something? Because I don't think it does. I also think harboring that kind of premise leads to surprises in business relations, and not the good kind, as customers/prospects discover that when you say "free," you don't really mean free.


I tend to speak up when moral issues surface.

B.S. Moral issues? Paleeeease.. Only on the internet...


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thedcmule2
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Jan 23, 2014 19:41 |  #113

Yeah...youre really saving society here :lol:




  
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OhLook
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Jan 23, 2014 19:50 |  #114

Bakewell wrote in post #16631184 (external link)
B.S. Moral issues? Paleeeease.. Only on the internet...

You don't see any moral issues there? What if I called it business ethics instead?


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Jan 23, 2014 19:51 |  #115

OhLook wrote in post #16631140 (external link)
Understood.

You said "great photography content." Photography content is what's in the frame. You offer advice on how to sell photos, not how to make them.

I'd worry about what else you might use my address for.

Now, what about that idea that giving something away entitles you to get something? Because I don't think it does. I also think harboring that kind of premise leads to surprises in business relations, and not the good kind, as customers/prospects discover that when you say "free," you don't really mean free.


I tend to speak up when moral issues surface.

Let's try that again:

- This is a marketing for photographers thread that lives under 'The Business of Photography' category of POTN.


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Jan 23, 2014 19:53 |  #116

OhLook wrote in post #16631220 (external link)
You don't see any moral issues there? What if I called it business ethics instead?

Let's suspend the running around in circles and instead provide actionable content related to this thread before you post again on the ethical dilemma of marketing and selling photographs.


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Jan 23, 2014 20:03 |  #117

grahamclarkphoto wrote in post #16630773 (external link)
- Sign up for my newsletter and you'll see the unsubscribe button

Yes, once you get the newsletter you can unsubscribe from it. But, Graham, my point is that I never subscribed to it. All I did was download the 6D review. Had I known you wanted payment (of any kind) in return, I would have passed. But you didn't give me that choice. Now I don't know you and I'm sure you mean well, but suddenly receiving your newsletter out of the blue annoyed me just as any and all unsolicited mail annoys me.

And also, when I unsubscribed you had a field where I could state my reasons for unsubscribing and I told you my reasons as I thought it would make you rethink your strategy here. So I said I only downloaded your review and never signed up for your newsletter and that I consider it spam. You then sent me an email saying that you gave me something worth real value/money and that all you wanted to know is who downloaded it. You also said that next time I should just send you an email so I could pay for it as opposed to going on your email list.
Wanting to know who downloads your stuff I can understand. Making people pay a price for a download without telling them upfront is wrong. You really do need to rethink this.


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Jan 23, 2014 20:03 as a reply to  @ grahamclarkphoto's post |  #118
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The guys' trying to throw out some info that you may or may not find worthwhile. He's trying to stir some interest for his blog....so what. May be some valuable info to some people...if not to you..Move on! At least he's putting in the effort! What are you and the other contrarians trying to contribute? zip...nada...zero...no​thing!


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grahamclarkphoto
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Jan 23, 2014 20:13 |  #119

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #16631254 (external link)
Yes, once you get the newsletter you can unsubscribe from it. But, Graham, my point is that I never subscribed to it. All I did was download the 6D review. Had I known you wanted payment (of any kind) in return, I would have passed. But you didn't give me that choice. Now I don't know you and I'm sure you mean well, but suddenly receiving your newsletter out of the blue annoyed me just as any and all unsolicited mail annoys me.

And also, when I unsubscribed you had a field where I could state my reasons for unsubscribing and I told you my reasons as I thought it would make you rethink your strategy here. So I said I only downloaded your review and never signed up for your newsletter and that I consider it spam. You then sent me an email saying that you gave me something worth real value/money and that all you wanted to know is who downloaded it. You also said that next time I should just send you an email so I could pay for it as opposed to going on your email list.
Wanting to know who downloads your stuff I can understand. Making people pay a price for a download without telling them upfront is wrong. You really do need to rethink this.

1. You downloaded something I created
2. You went onto a photography newsletter
3. You unsubscribed

What's the issue here again?

Life is short, don't sweat the small stuff. The subject of the newsletter you got was:

"Developing as a Photographer" focused on creating actionable resolutions for 2014. No harm done here, so chill on the trolling and move on.


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Jan 23, 2014 20:21 |  #120

grahamclarkphoto wrote in post #16631282 (external link)
so chill on the trolling and move on.

Wow...

Unsubscribing from the thread.


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