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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 23 Jan 2014 (Thursday) 05:20
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How much is placebo?

 
Myboostedgst
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Jan 24, 2014 11:06 as a reply to  @ post 16632823 |  #76

One thing that I think is over looked all too often is where the images will end up. I am sure many professional photographers print large images, but there is a large group of hobbyists out there that only view them on computer screens or print 8x10 or smaller. So when everyone says "I can clearly see the differences at 100%", it is a moot point for many photographers who buy the gear. Professionals who do print large should very much care, but for a large portion of the people that only post online, that is definitely where the placebo effect comes in. They see those people who NEED the very best, and then zoom in to 100% to test sharpness, and then output the image to 1024x768 for web viewing.


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david ­ lacey
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Jan 24, 2014 11:08 as a reply to  @ post 16632799 |  #77

I have always noticed differences in different camera gear with IQ and user experience. I do think that this web sight helps encourage GAS when training videos, books and workshops would be a faster way to get to good images than the most expensive lens you can find.

One thing that is easy to forget when looking at L glass threads is that there are many professional photographers with lots of knowledge and experience posting those images. Not to say that a skilled person can not get as good or better images with non L glass but many times there are less long term pros posting in the non L threads.

There are reasons that one might like cheaper gear over more expensive gear if it suits their style better etc. For instance some lenses might have great corner to corner sharpness and less distortion but if you are a portrait photographer would you care, probably not you might rather have a lens that has a lower f-stop and creamier bokeh.




  
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Ruggo
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Jan 24, 2014 12:44 |  #78

Good read. Oft quoted "You don't need expensive gear to take great photo's"
Then mention the word Tripods. This is the one that does my head in. Let the fur fly.




  
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EOS5DC
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Jan 24, 2014 14:05 |  #79
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Brain Mechanic wrote in post #16632336 (external link)
When I said some pics were in my OPINION kind of soft one guy decided to go through my flickr page to get some of my pics and basically say they were as soft as the ones I commented on. Some have a hard time dealing with opinions guess its human nature.

I find it quite odd that you blast someone for having a negative reaction to being told their photos are soft. Then you proceed to have a negative reaction because someone told you that your photos soft. Perhaps it is best to reserve criticism for those occasions where it requested.


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Lbsimon
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Jan 24, 2014 14:40 |  #80

Brain Mechanic wrote in post #16632336 (external link)
When I said some pics were in my OPINION kind of soft one guy decided to go through my flickr page to get some of my pics and basically say they were as soft as the ones I commented on. Some have a hard time dealing with opinions guess its human nature.

So who cares? Somebody said something bad about your photography. Was it constructive that you could learn something from it? If not, just ignore. It is the nature of the Internet.


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l89kip
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Jan 24, 2014 15:14 |  #81

I come here to learn and enjoy. Sometime we express our opinions. If we differ, then be it. It's not worth of being too serious.


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Brain ­ Mechanic
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Jan 24, 2014 15:33 |  #82
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Lbsimon wrote in post #16633493 (external link)
So who cares? Somebody said something bad about your photography. Was it constructive that you could learn something from it? If not, just ignore. It is the nature of the Internet.

I find it quite odd that you blast someone for having a negative reaction to being told their photos are soft. Then you proceed to have a negative reaction because someone told you that your photos soft. Perhaps it is best to reserve criticism for those occasions where it requested.

I ignored it, but my photography was not what was discussed in the thread and I commented about the softness of those pics because it happens THAT was the discussion's main argument, nothing odd about that , dont you think? There was nothing constructive about the "critique". I mentioned it here as an example of the reactions some people have when this placebo effect is taking place.


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Nick3434
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Jan 24, 2014 15:51 |  #83

Scatterbrained wrote in post #16631024 (external link)
I tend to see just the opposite: people who maybe can't afford to shell out for those subtle differences so they try to convince themselves those differences don't exist. Which is different from the people who maybe can't see the utility in the added expenditure but acknowledge the differences.

This is also true, but on the low end it is in the perception realm. In the factual technological realm, once something gets really good, small improvements start costing big dollars, think titanium, carbon fiber, gold plated connectors, special treated lens glass etc.


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Jan 25, 2014 08:13 |  #84

Scatterbrained wrote in post #16631024 (external link)
I tend to see just the opposite: people who maybe can't afford to shell out for those subtle differences so they try to convince themselves those differences don't exist. Which is different from the people who maybe can't see the utility in the added expenditure but acknowledge the differences.

It goes both ways. Ownership bias contributes a lot to the perception of a lens or camera.

People here feel the need to defend the rationale behind their purchases.


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monkey44
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Jan 25, 2014 08:36 |  #85

mystik610 wrote in post #16635381 (external link)
It goes both ways. Ownership bias contributes a lot to the perception of a lens or camera.

People here feel the need to defend the rationale behind their purchases.

We also get a feel for how to use gear we own ... and make it work in ways we like. As we understand its positives we work toward that ability, and the negatives we work around.




  
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kevindar
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Jan 25, 2014 11:08 |  #86

1. You can always take crappy pictures with excellent and expensive equipment.
2. The camera state of technology is such that a point that entry level dslr's have amazing sensors.
3. a single image never tells the story. a sub 300 eosM and kit lens, in many times is as good of a tool as a 20x more expensive 1dx and 24-105. If you are not pushing the instument to its limit, (an many times you dont have to) there may not be any difference.
4. The advantage of 'better" or more expensive equipment is not simply measured at pixel level of single images. It is also measure in AF consistancy, accuracy and speed, equipment reliability and dependability, etc.
5. There is definitely some placebo effect.

In my experience, the single biggest improvement that I saw in my images, was going from a 40d to 5d. I did not note as much going then to 5d2, and hardly any going to 5d3. I do get more images infocus when I use off center.

I make a video of my family, taking my favorite images of the year, and the end of the year. This is a "blind" process, since I dont look at the exif when I pick the images. my 85 1.2II is always over represented (b/c I like that look), and my sony 16-50 pz on nex is under represented (It does well for video). My nex system in general is under represented, given number of images I take with it, I just have more wow images with my 5d3 set up, but I still get plenty with my NEX.


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samsen
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Jan 25, 2014 13:54 |  #87

kevindar wrote in post #16635741 (external link)
In my experience, the single biggest improvement that I saw in my images, was going from a 40d to 5d. I did not note as much going then to 5d2, and hardly any going to 5d3. I do get more images infocus when I use off center.


bw!

All very well said.
Bottom line: "It is not tools. Its the photographer" admit it or not!


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Jan 26, 2014 06:48 |  #88

samsen wrote in post #16636097 (external link)
bw!

All very well said.
Bottom line: "It is not tools. Its the photographer" admit it or not!

While theres so much truth in your bottom line i have to say, it is not 100% true.

For example: when i take my 50L along with my 6D and shoot in low light, sometimes the high ISO of the 6D is required, even at f/1.2. some shot would be missed if i'd used a P&S or a crop sensor body. Sure it is me taking the picture but for my style of photography i need the high ISO and wouldve missed many shots without it...


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Jerobean
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Jan 26, 2014 07:01 |  #89

davidfarina wrote in post #16637662 (external link)
While theres so much truth in your bottom line i have to say, it is not 100% true.

For example: when i take my 50L along with my 6D and shoot in low light, sometimes the high ISO of the 6D is required, even at f/1.2. some shot would be missed if i'd used a P&S or a crop sensor body. Sure it is me taking the picture but for my style of photography i need the high ISO and wouldve missed many shots without it...

I agree.

It drives me nuts how people on here are so strongly stuck in their "gear doesn't matter, it's the photographer" beliefs.

if you say being a good photographer is more important than gear, sure, but saying gear DOESN'T matter is just silly. There is a point when gear upgrades are so marginal that you can argue this, but until I see professional photographers walking around with rebels and kit lenses I'll feel pretty confident that gear is helpful.


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monkey44
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Jan 26, 2014 08:47 |  #90

We don't have to come down here in one camp or the other - it need not be quite so black and white. :)

Sometimes the gear matters, sometimes it doesn't. We can always describe a scene that will push one camera or lens into or out of its technical abilities. We can also describe a scene where almost any DSLR will create a great image. As soon as you confine yourself to the belief that you need the top shelf, best and newest technology no matter what you do, your wallet will suffer continuously.

It makes more sense to decide what kind of images or style you want to capture, and buy gear that will capture it. But not every one must buy every piece of gear available to shoot successfully.

For example: If you confine yourself to outdoor shoots, you need no lights (a fill type flash maybe) but no huge expensive light setup with umbrellas and that whole package.

Can we say a pro or even an amateur may shoot a really great, high IQ, nearly perfect shot with a 20D and a 28/135 ... sure we can, and s/he can probably shoot one on a regular basis and develop a solid business out of that set up. But does that limit the potential for a lot more work. Absolutely. But it doesn't make or break the 'label' professional ... nor make or break the ability to earn a living.

Are there some shots the 20D 28/135 can't create - yes, of course. But I'm betting there are photographers out there that can capture higher quality images with that 20D 24/135 setup that another one can't get with a 5DM3 and a 24/105 or a 70/200 no matter how many times that button clicks.

So, is gear important - yes and no, but not always. :) :) :)




  
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How much is placebo?
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