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Thread started 05 Dec 2013 (Thursday) 14:20
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The Last Days of the DSLR

 
mystik610
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Feb 03, 2014 18:42 |  #211

davidfarina wrote in post #16659747 (external link)
Thats right, and sure theyre not bigger because hardware only. But leave the mirror box out and its still big. I dont know whether DSLRs are using the bodys processor to calculate the AF, but still, the processor has to low power to spare on the battery lifetime and increase the speed of the device, while maintaining a small size of the body.

If you're talking complex AF tracking like that found in the 5DIII, most of those cameras have a dedicated AF processor along with an image processor, but other than that, the processors used in current mirrorless cameras are no different than something you'd find in say...a 6D. Hell, the Digic 4 used in the 5d Mark II, 60D, is also used in Canon's powershot point and shoots. The Digic 5 used in the T4i, is also used in the EOS-M, as well as point and shoots like the the S100 and G15.

Even for those that do use a dedicated processor, if you look at the teardowns of the 5DIII and 1Ds, the processors aren't anything so large that they couldn't fit into a mirrorless body.

Again the AF performance of mirrorless bodies is not derived from their size per-se, but from the lack of a mirror! But on sensor AF systems are improving pretty rapidly. In fact, the hybrid contrast/phase detect AF systems used in mirrorless cameras could actually surpass the AF systems used in current DSLRs sooner than we think.


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EtherealZee
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Feb 03, 2014 20:08 |  #212

davidfarina wrote in post #16657338 (external link)
Yes it goes fast, but sometimes its stuck because the hardware is not getting smaller. And at this point point we are now. Well maybe not 20 years but 10 sounds very realistic to me

I would guess closer to a year or two. Five max.

Not sure if you've used an EM-1, but it's spastically fast.

The EP-5 I am using, in conjunction with my 7D, is not slower in any way for static shots, and I would argue is actually better, because it actually focuses correctly first time in 99% of my shots, unlike the closer to 60% of the 7D. Which means I am constantly taking shots of everything twice on the 7D, just in case.

The 7D will track faster, but that is a very small percentage of my shooting these days.

Lenses, really, is the main thing keeping the 7D ahead...

Z...




  
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ERJL
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Feb 03, 2014 20:44 |  #213
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mystik610 wrote in post #16661330 (external link)
If you're talking complex AF tracking like that found in the 5DIII, most of those cameras have a dedicated AF processor along with an image processor, but other than that, the processors used in current mirrorless cameras are no different than something you'd find in say...a 6D. Hell, the Digic 4 used in the 5d Mark II, 60D, is also used in Canon's powershot point and shoots. The Digic 5 used in the T4i, is also used in the EOS-M, as well as point and shoots like the the S100 and G15.

Even for those that do use a dedicated processor, if you look at the teardowns of the 5DIII and 1Ds, the processors aren't anything so large that they couldn't fit into a mirrorless body.

Again the AF performance of mirrorless bodies is not derived from their size per-se, but from the lack of a mirror! But on sensor AF systems are improving pretty rapidly. In fact, the hybrid contrast/phase detect AF systems used in mirrorless cameras could actually surpass the AF systems used in current DSLRs sooner than we think.

Send us a memo when that happens:rolleyes:

I think the point is that right NOW, the hubbub about the Sony a7/a7r glosses over its shortcomings. But that is jmo and please don't take my sarcasm as offensive, it is not meant that way.


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DocFrankenstein
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Feb 03, 2014 21:11 |  #214

watt100 wrote in post #16654959 (external link)
would like to know a more exact date of the DSLR collapse (planning purposes)
June 2015?
Dec?

Collapse happens gradually


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DocFrankenstein
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Feb 03, 2014 21:12 |  #215

deanedward wrote in post #16659131 (external link)
it's alright...when mirrorless cameras become mainstream, the hipsters will save the day!

EOS1Dx would be the cool retro camera, going for 100 bucks


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mystik610
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Feb 03, 2014 22:23 |  #216

ERJL wrote in post #16661611 (external link)
Send us a memo when that happens:rolleyes:

it's already starting to happen. the state of micro four thirds af systems and the dual pixel af is already showcasing where larger sensor cameras will be in a few years. anyone who can't see the advantages are rather shortsighted.

I.e imagine a camera that could utilize a 'high precision autofocus mode' by instantly locking focus using phase detect, and then quickly fine-tuning the focus using contrast detect for greater accuracy. this will create a system that focuses as quickly as a DSLR, without the shortcomings and calibration issues of a mirror. it would focus more accurately for shots at extremely large apertures, and greatly minimize the need to micro focus adjust a lens. it would also mean that lenses like the 50L would actually work as intended

imagine if with the same camera, you could switch to AI servo mode and use the phase detect points to track motion the same way you would with a DSLR

ERJL wrote in post #16661611 (external link)
I think the point is that right NOW, the hubbub about the Sony a7/a7r glosses over its shortcomings. But that is jmo and please don't take my sarcasm as offensive, it is not meant that way.

just like people overlook the subpar dynamic range in the 5D, or the high ISO noise in the 7D?

AF aside, my a7r outperforms my 5DIII, whole fitting in my coat pocket.

point is photography equipment tends to be highly specialized and there are always trade-offs (shortcomings) in designing a piece of equipment to meet s certain specification. no one bought the a7r needing a world class AF system, as that's not what it's designed for. just as n one bought the 7D for it's high ISO noise handling, or the 5DIII for its dynamic range and resolution. no one ever bought a DSLR for it's compactness and portability


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Feb 03, 2014 22:38 |  #217

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #16661680 (external link)
EOS1Dx would be the cool retro camera, going for 100 bucks

Patterned after the Canon A-1 but with a EF mount.


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Feb 04, 2014 03:38 |  #218

Still im pretty much unimpressed by the A7r

I was so tempted to buy it, but the annoying EVF and that sloooow AF is that much of a showstopper for me...


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ERJL
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Feb 04, 2014 14:37 |  #219
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mystik610 wrote in post #16661812 (external link)
it's already starting to happen. the state of micro four thirds af systems and the dual pixel af is already showcasing where larger sensor cameras will be in a few years. anyone who can't see the advantages are rather shortsighted.

I.e imagine a camera that could utilize a 'high precision autofocus mode' by instantly locking focus using phase detect, and then quickly fine-tuning the focus using contrast detect for greater accuracy. this will create a system that focuses as quickly as a DSLR, without the shortcomings and calibration issues of a mirror. it would focus more accurately for shots at extremely large apertures, and greatly minimize the need to micro focus adjust a lens. it would also mean that lenses like the 50L would actually work as intended

imagine if with the same camera, you could switch to AI servo mode and use the phase detect points to track motion the same way you would with a DSLR

just like people overlook the subpar dynamic range in the 5D, or the high ISO noise in the 7D?

AF aside, my a7r outperforms my 5DIII, whole fitting in my coat pocket.

point is photography equipment tends to be highly specialized and there are always trade-offs (shortcomings) in designing a piece of equipment to meet s certain specification. no one bought the a7r needing a world class AF system, as that's not what it's designed for. just as n one bought the 7D for it's high ISO noise handling, or the 5DIII for its dynamic range and resolution. no one ever bought a DSLR for it's compactness and portability

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, I for one, just don't buy into the internet hype. The Sony's fall far short of what DSLR users are use to in terms of autofocus and even sensor quality. You should peruse DPR for complaints of reflections on the sensor. You might want to also check out some of the independent reviewers recommendations about the a7/a7r series for people who already own quality DSLR's (KR comes to mind). IT seems that half the hype is that they can be adapted through third party devices to use non Sony lenses.


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mystik610
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Feb 04, 2014 15:54 |  #220

ERJL wrote in post #16663339 (external link)
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, I for one, just don't buy into the internet hype. The Sony's fall far short of what DSLR users are use to in terms of autofocus and even sensor quality.

You’re trying to group the universe of “DSLR users” expectations into a single bucket, and it’s a flawed mentality. “DSLR users” come in all shapes and sizes, and have different sub-sets of needs. The diversity in the product offerings from camera manufacturers is reflective of that. While YOU may find the autofocus to be unusable for the way YOU shoot, there are numerous people out there who find it adequate. And while YOU may not see the value in a compact FF camera with one of the best FF sensors in the industry, obviously enough people do to create the demand for these cameras, as its been selling particularly well.

There are plenty of people around here posting beautiful photos shot on the a7r…many times even forgoing the wonders of autofocus and using manual focus, because the positives outweigh the negatives to them.

Granted the a7r serves a niche market and isn't for everyone, but that doesn't discount the validity of its relevance. The a7r is clearly catering to an underserved market. While Canon and Nikon are losing boat-loads of money serving the declining market for point and shoots, they left a lot of money on the table adopting the same closed mind-set you are.

ERJL wrote in post #16663339 (external link)
You should peruse DPR for complaints of reflections on the sensor. You might want to also check out some of the independent reviewers recommendations about the a7/a7r series for people who already own quality DSLR's (KR comes to mind). IT seems that half the hype is that they can be adapted through third party devices to use non Sony lenses.

You’re saying not to buy into internet hype, and then suggesting that I form my own opinions based on what people are saying on the internet? Flawed mentality #2.

For every negative article or comment you point out about the a7r (or anything), I can point you to a corresponding positive comment. Such is the nature of the internet. It blows both positives and negatives completely out of proportion. Anyone with a strong biased opinion about something is going to selectively latch onto articles and comments that support their own beliefs.

I can speak (and have only spoken) about the value of the a7r as it relates to my own experience. I’m not going to quote a bunch of random people around the internet to prove a point, because there is no point. The a7r has worked fantastically for me, and that’s the only point I care to make. I can recognize that people have different needs. Not once did I impose my own needs as an absolute truth applicable to all “DSLR Users” the way you’re intent on doing.


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ERJL
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Feb 04, 2014 17:02 |  #221
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mystik610 wrote in post #16663557 (external link)
You’re trying to group the universe of “DSLR users” expectations into a single bucket, and it’s a flawed mentality. “DSLR users” come in all shapes and sizes, and have different sub-sets of needs. The diversity in the product offerings from camera manufacturers is reflective of that. While YOU may find the autofocus to be unusable for the way YOU shoot, there are numerous people out there who find it adequate. And while YOU may not see the value in a compact FF camera with one of the best FF sensors in the industry, obviously enough people do to create the demand for these cameras, as its been selling particularly well.

There are plenty of people around here posting beautiful photos shot on the a7r…many times even forgoing the wonders of autofocus and using manual focus, because the positives outweigh the negatives to them.

Granted the a7r serves a niche market and isn't for everyone, but that doesn't discount the validity of its relevance. The a7r is clearly catering to an underserved market. While Canon and Nikon are losing boat-loads of money serving the declining market for point and shoots, they left a lot of money on the table adopting the same closed mind-set you are.

You’re saying not to buy into internet hype, and then suggesting that I form my own opinions based on what people are saying on the internet? Flawed mentality #2.

For every negative article or comment you point out about the a7r (or anything), I can point you to a corresponding positive comment. Such is the nature of the internet. It blows both positives and negatives completely out of proportion. Anyone with a strong biased opinion about something is going to selectively latch onto articles and comments that support their own beliefs.

I can speak (and have only spoken) about the value of the a7r as it relates to my own experience. I’m not going to quote a bunch of random people around the internet to prove a point, because there is no point. The a7r has worked fantastically for me, and that’s the only point I care to make. I can recognize that people have different needs. Not once did I impose my own needs as an absolute truth applicable to all “DSLR Users” the way you’re intent on doing.

Jeez man, take a chill.

I'll end it there as I suspect you are getting a bit too wrapped up or taking it too personal.

Enjoy your a7r.

edit: suggest you read your post which is #211 as to just stating your personal experience.


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mystik610
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Feb 04, 2014 17:50 |  #222

ERJL wrote in post #16663758 (external link)
Jeez man, take a chill.

I'll end it there as I suspect you are getting a bit too wrapped up or taking it too personal.

Enjoy your a7r.

edit: suggest you read your post which is #211 as to just stating your personal experience.

no chill pill needed. just pointing out the fallacies in your argument :)


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Feb 05, 2014 02:16 |  #223

A7r-a small body with slow to no auto focus that is still big when combined with most lenses=fail




  
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Feb 05, 2014 02:19 |  #224

Somebloke wrote in post #16664764 (external link)
A7r-a small body with slow to no auto focus that is still big when combined with most lenses=fail

A7R- the best FF35mm sensor on the market, capable of taking lenses from just about any 35mm format system with great focus peaking for those high end manual focus lenses (like Zeiss)= Win.:cool:


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Feb 05, 2014 02:55 |  #225

Scatterbrained wrote in post #16664773 (external link)
A7R- the best FF35mm sensor on the market, capable of taking lenses from just about any 35mm format system with great focus peaking for those high end manual focus lenses (like Zeiss)= Win.:cool:

This.


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